R

rbj9

Enthusiast
First off, never had a sub, never had a HT system!

I'm considering a PC-13.

Room is 15x19 and the ceiling is trayed 13 to 17 1/2.

Will one PC-13 be enough? Maybe two smaller subs, PC-12Plus?

Also my fronts are http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/recent/srs23tl/ if I leave them set to large would that give me enough bass?

Thanks,
rb
 
GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
Two PC-12 plus subs would be better than a single ultra, you would get more output and having two subs would smooth out frequency response as well. I say if you have the room for two subs, and the budget, by all means go for it.
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
The SVS PC 25-31 is on clearance for $499. Two of these will be awesome bang for buck in the $1000 price range.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Will it be enough? The Ultra will CRUSH you like a grape in a room that size :D

A buddy of mine, who is on this forum from time to time as well, has almost those same speakers as his mains with a PB-13 Ultra and it sounds excellent.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
First off, never had a sub, never had a HT system!

I'm considering a PC-13.

Room is 15x19 and the ceiling is trayed 13 to 17 1/2.

Will one PC-13 be enough? Maybe two smaller subs, PC-12Plus?

Also my fronts are http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/recent/srs23tl/ if I leave them set to large would that give me enough bass?

Thanks,
rb
If you can afford it, I recommend starting with one PC13-Ultra and see how you like it. Then, if it is not enough for you, buy a second PC13-Ultra. If you went with two lessor subs, it would be much more expensive to upgrade than to upgrade from one PC13-Ultra.

I also recommend that you talk with the people at SVS and see what they think of the idea of one PC13-Ultra versus two PC12-Pluses. But remember, the PC13-Ultra is supposed to go deeper, and you will basically just be getting more output with two subwoofers, not deeper bass. So for me, there is no way I would go with a pair of PC12-Pluses instead of a PC13-Ultra.

As for your main speakers, although they are supposed to have output down to 12 Hz, the -3dB point is 30 Hz. So, if you like really deep bass, and you want it as loud as it should be, a good quality subwoofer would be a good idea. And with those speakers, there would be no point in a cheap subwoofer, because they already go pretty low. But for many people, the amount of bass you can get from those speakers is enough. So, whether you would be happy without a subwoofer or not is hard to say, but I would want a good subwoofer in your situation if I could afford it. My advice above is, in my opinion, particularly relevant in your case, as you are just wanting deeper bass, not so much more bass. If your receiver allows for different crossover settings for different channels, you could set the crossover for the main speakers pretty low, which would enable your subwoofer to concentrate on just really deep bass, not on all of the bass.
 
GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
A pair of pluses would have more output than a single PB13, and they still play plenty deep, and can always be tuned below the stock 20 hz. tuning. Although a single ultra would cost less, but is much heavier and more difficult to move around, and wouldn't have the smooth frequency response as two pluses. I too would reccomend emailing SVS, they have amazing customer service, and won't try to sell you someting you don't need.

On the other hand, if you can afford two ultras, and want lots of bone crushing bass, then start out with one ultra, then add a second one if you feel the need. I have both a Plus, and an Ultra, not in the same room of course, and they are both very fine subs.
 
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rbj9

Enthusiast
Thanks for the responses. Re-read some of the bass management articles available here and I am still leaning towards one PC13. Since I'm not going to buy until in June I'll send an e-mail to SVS and see what they think.

Thanks again,
rb
 
R

Ron Temple

Senior Audioholic
Will it be enough? The Ultra will CRUSH you like a grape in a room that size :D

A buddy of mine, who is on this forum from time to time as well, has almost those same speakers as his mains with a PB-13 Ultra and it sounds excellent.
Hi, I'm that guy...my room is the same size w/o the high ceilings, but is open to the rest of the house. I'm running 1Cs and 2Bs large with lots of amp power. Running the speakers large allows me to run the Ultra 2-3 dbs cold and still get reference level bass with no distortion. As John can attest, it will crush you with some material. SDAs and Ultras work very well together and your 2.3TLs are even more capable down low than 1Cs (which are only down 5dbs at 20hz here). I ran 12.3v dual Pluses prior to the Ultra. It took me about 30 seconds to sell them once I heard it. Overall bass output was slightly more, but who listens at 115dbs + very often. The SQ, impact, attack and lack of ringing made all the difference.

As a caveat...for 2 channel I don't run the sub. I use a separate 2 channel pre and just the fronts. Also, if you're using a 40w tube amp on you 2.3TLs, I wouldn't recommend it for HT use. The 2.3TLs will need some serious SS current to deliver the dynamics for HT...but they will.
 
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lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
If you can afford it, I recommend starting with one PC13-Ultra and see how you like it. Then, if it is not enough for you, buy a second PC13-Ultra. If you went with two lessor subs, it would be much more expensive to upgrade than to upgrade from one PC13-Ultra.

I also recommend that you talk with the people at SVS and see what they think of the idea of one PC13-Ultra versus two PC12-Pluses. But remember, the PC13-Ultra is supposed to go deeper, and you will basically just be getting more output with two subwoofers, not deeper bass. So for me, there is no way I would go with a pair of PC12-Pluses instead of a PC13-Ultra.

As for your main speakers, although they are supposed to have output down to 12 Hz, the -3dB point is 30 Hz. So, if you like really deep bass, and you want it as loud as it should be, a good quality subwoofer would be a good idea. And with those speakers, there would be no point in a cheap subwoofer, because they already go pretty low. But for many people, the amount of bass you can get from those speakers is enough. So, whether you would be happy without a subwoofer or not is hard to say, but I would want a good subwoofer in your situation if I could afford it. My advice above is, in my opinion, particularly relevant in your case, as you are just wanting deeper bass, not so much more bass. If your receiver allows for different crossover settings for different channels, you could set the crossover for the main speakers pretty low, which would enable your subwoofer to concentrate on just really deep bass, not on all of the bass.
I must point out that a member of the AVSForum did a comparsion between 2 smaller subs and 1 larger and the 2 smaller subs won.

I suggest you get the 2 small subs and then if you need the deep stuff you can get a sub that specializes in low lfe.

Or you could just DIY and have the best bang for your buck.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
If you can afford it, I recommend starting with one PC13-Ultra and see how you like it. Then, if it is not enough for you, buy a second PC13-Ultra. If you went with two lessor subs, it would be much more expensive to upgrade than to upgrade from one PC13-Ultra.

I also recommend that you talk with the people at SVS and see what they think of the idea of one PC13-Ultra versus two PC12-Pluses. But remember, the PC13-Ultra is supposed to go deeper, and you will basically just be getting more output with two subwoofers, not deeper bass. So for me, there is no way I would go with a pair of PC12-Pluses instead of a PC13-Ultra.

As for your main speakers, although they are supposed to have output down to 12 Hz, the -3dB point is 30 Hz. So, if you like really deep bass, and you want it as loud as it should be, a good quality subwoofer would be a good idea. And with those speakers, there would be no point in a cheap subwoofer, because they already go pretty low. But for many people, the amount of bass you can get from those speakers is enough. So, whether you would be happy without a subwoofer or not is hard to say, but I would want a good subwoofer in your situation if I could afford it. My advice above is, in my opinion, particularly relevant in your case, as you are just wanting deeper bass, not so much more bass. If your receiver allows for different crossover settings for different channels, you could set the crossover for the main speakers pretty low, which would enable your subwoofer to concentrate on just really deep bass, not on all of the bass.
I must point out that a member of the AVSForum did a comparsion between 2 smaller subs and 1 larger and the 2 smaller subs won.

And what were the standards for "winning"? If you are talking about more output, then it would not be surprising if two PC12-Pluses "beat" one PC13-Ultra. But the simple fact is, (aside from a pair of Pluses costing more, so they should win), according to SVS, the PC13-Ultra goes deeper before one hits the - 3 dB point.

Also, of course, in some rooms, it may work out better to flatten the response with two well placed subwoofers, so which will be "best" in a given situation is going to depend upon the room and placement as well how many and which subwoofers we are talking about.

It is also worth pointing out the first five words of my post, "If you can afford it...", which, of course, is limiting the applicability of what follows. If rbj9 can afford to buy an Ultra now and one later if the first one does not work well enough, then buying one Ultra now is a good plan. Surely, you will agree that getting two PC13-Ultras is better than getting two PC12-Pluses?

And if rbj9 buys the two Pluses, and wants to upgrade, it will probably be to replace one or both of the Pluses (presumably, there are some space limitations for the number of subwoofers in the room), which will be expensive, whereas with adding a second Ultra, the first Ultra is kept, so no money is wasted.


I suggest you get the 2 small subs and then if you need the deep stuff you can get a sub that specializes in low lfe.

You are now talking about buying three subwoofers, which is likely to cost more than buying two Ultras (not to mention the extra space it will take up).


Or you could just DIY and have the best bang for your buck.

That may be, but that is an entirely different matter from whether it is better to start with an Ultra or two Pluses.

Obviously, people who want more output, and do not require deeper bass, would be better off with two Pluses than one Ultra (this is assuming that two Pluses really will play louder than two Ultras, which is likely true, though I have not seen any proof of this). But not everyone is wanting more output, but is instead looking for the deepest bass reasonably possible. So at the end of the day, we are talking about preferences, and rbj9 must decide what is most important to rbj9. I would go with the single Ultra to start, for the reasons already stated. Other people would go with a pair of Pluses. I am not saying that they are necessarily wrong to have that preference. But it does involve a preference that I do not share. I want the deepest bass reasonably possible, so the Ultra, for me, is a better choice.
 
R

rbj9

Enthusiast
UPS delivered my PC13 today, didn't think they would deliver something this heavy. Everything was well packed, no complaints.

After unpacking and setting it in the family room I realized just how big this thing is!

The photos on the SVS site don't give good detail on the fabric that is used.
I am very pleased with the quality of the fabric, and here's something to consider - if you have cats you don't want this one, go with a box.

I'll make my first attempt at setup and calibration in the morning after I get off work.

Thanks for all the help,
rb
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Congrats on having your new toy at home! I still remember when my PC13-Ultra was delivered. Yep, that's one tall box right there. :)
 
GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
Congrats on your new toy. That ultra is a beast for sure, you will be surprised once you fire that thing up. I know the box for my 20-39 PC+ was large, I can only image how big that box is.
 
R

Ron Temple

Senior Audioholic
As for your main speakers, although they are supposed to have output down to 12 Hz, the -3dB point is 30 Hz. So, if you like really deep bass, and you want it as loud as it should be, a good quality subwoofer would be a good idea. And with those speakers, there would be no point in a cheap subwoofer, because they already go pretty low. But for many people, the amount of bass you can get from those speakers is enough. So, whether you would be happy without a subwoofer or not is hard to say, but I would want a good subwoofer in your situation if I could afford it. My advice above is, in my opinion, particularly relevant in your case, as you are just wanting deeper bass, not so much more bass. If your receiver allows for different crossover settings for different channels, you could set the crossover for the main speakers pretty low, which would enable your subwoofer to concentrate on just really deep bass, not on all of the bass.
Congrats on the new sub. I'd be interested in your impressions once you get it integrated.

As for the quote above, I agree that adding a sub for HT will deliver more power and season the experience. The FR response is typical of a sealed alignment and if the SDAs are properly setup, flat to a wall, no toe in, about 6"-1' out, 6-8' apart and at least 3' from room corners, they benefit from room and boundary gain to offer prodigous deep bass that will get you flat into the 20s and perhaps beyond. It takes hefty amp power and it's not subwoofer bass, but it's extremely low distortion and handles everything musical (except the lowest organ pedals)...not bad for HT either. The Ultra should be a great addition. It will handle the really deep stuff and reinforce the midbass which already slams quite well with the SDA's.
 
R

rbj9

Enthusiast
I have a 65" Panasonic plasma that the Polk's are on either side of and it just so happens to work out that they are 6' apart. I keep them flat but in close to the wall only about 3" out. There is plenty of room to the side walls. Started with the Ultra in the right rear corner then moved it to the right front corner. With all of the furniture moving and my work schedule I haven't listened to it alot. So far I have the Polk's set to small and all the ports open on the Ultra. I have a Yamaha RX-Z7 running everything, still trying to learn how it works, but it seems to have plenty of power. I have an older Yamaha MX-1000/CX-1000 power/control amps for backup if I would need more power, the MX-1000 puts out 265 watts.

Watched Space Cowboys last night. The part with them in the centrifuge really had the Ultra thumpin, dogs were barking, even made the wife smile!

I'll try to change the setup later this week.

Thanks again for everyone's input,
rb
 
R

Ron Temple

Senior Audioholic
I have a 65" Panasonic plasma that the Polk's are on either side of and it just so happens to work out that they are 6' apart. I keep them flat but in close to the wall only about 3" out. There is plenty of room to the side walls. Started with the Ultra in the right rear corner then moved it to the right front corner. With all of the furniture moving and my work schedule I haven't listened to it alot. So far I have the Polk's set to small and all the ports open on the Ultra. I have a Yamaha RX-Z7 running everything, still trying to learn how it works, but it seems to have plenty of power. I have an older Yamaha MX-1000/CX-1000 power/control amps for backup if I would need more power, the MX-1000 puts out 265 watts.

Watched Space Cowboys last night. The part with them in the centrifuge really had the Ultra thumpin, dogs were barking, even made the wife smile!

I'll try to change the setup later this week.

Thanks again for everyone's input,
rb
When you get around to it, I'd recommend putting the amp on the 2.3TLs, run them large and the AVR at LFE + mains. You'll probably have to dial back the sub a bit and cross it lower than 80hz. The Polks are 6 ohm nominal. The more current the better. I realize that's a flagship receiver, but a 265w amp should get you some benefit, not in volume, in dynamics, slam and soundstage. It's worth a try anyway. Let your ears be the judge.
 
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