The Obama Motors Corporation

[craigsub]

So in other words you can't or won't reply to my ideas, instead you just continue to throw half-assed insults around.

Actually, I would appreciate it if you would stop lying about what I actually say. Is that too much to ask ?

You have yet to quote me accurately even one time.

If we can get past this, perhaps we can have a conversation.

 

[Midcow2]

Hey craigsub --- I for one am with you!

Actually, I would appreciate it if you would stop lying about what I actually say. Is that too much to ask ?

You have yet to quote me accurately even one time.

If we can get past this, perhaps we can have a conversation.

Craigsub,

I for one am on your side. I think you have very clearly explained yourself and I have gotta admire your job experience and fortitude. Hope everything keeps going well with you.

MidCow2

 

[Davemcc]

Dave - Even though I own a Ford dealership, I don't drive Fords exclusively.

Me neither. I've still got the '08 Corvette in the garage.

I have to say that I've been very happy with the GM products I've had. My old '81 Camaro ran like a Timex.

 

[craigsub]

Me neither. I've still got the '08 Corvette in the garage.

I have to say that I've been very happy with the GM products I've had. My old '81 Camaro ran like a Timex.

I have a 2008 Z-06 ... love that car.

I Also just bought a 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT-8, and love it.

Some car dealers have a mistress. I prefer sports cars ... They are less money, don't irritate God, and are LOTS less trouble.

 

[MidnightSensi]

I have a 2008 Z-06 ... love that car.

I Also just bought a 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT-8, and love it.

Some car dealers have a mistress. I prefer sports cars ... They are less money, don't irritate God, and are LOTS less trouble.

I had a 06 Z-06, thing was extremely fast...handled great...excellent value for the performance (was faster than my 430 and gt3rs are)... but it still felt like a cheap car. Sold it at a profit and bought some other stuff. I hear they have added some nicer interiors and such now, but haven't been in once since mine. Just something about it wasn't for me.

 

[lsiberian]

Links please???

Well I never took pictures of my car catching fire or the radiator hose busting.

But it did actually happen to me. So I refuse to buy Fords.

 

[Midcow2]

even more impressed .. nice cars

I have a 2008 Z-06 ... love that car.

I Also just bought a 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT-8, and love it.

Some car dealers have a mistress. I prefer sports cars ... They are less money, don't irritate God, and are LOTS less trouble.

Very nice cars Craig. did you get the 6-speed SRT8 with the retro Bumble bee package? I have always like manual shifts. My sports car now is an
S2000 with an Invidia exhaust; not quite as fast as your two cars but fast enough

Later,

MidCow2

P.S.- Howdoes the Shelby Mustang drive

 

[jinjuku]

Dave - Even though I own a Ford dealership, I don't drive Fords exclusively. I can say though, we have never had an issue with any of the Fords we have owned.

In the long term warranty industry, the ratings for vehicles are done based on the expense per vehicle.

Ford is competitive with Toyota, especially when comparing, for example, cars to cars, trucks to trucks ... etc ... but any company will have people that get no satisfaction from purchases.

I think one of the issues are: with all the models that Ford and GM produced there was always a problem child in the line-up that gave them a black eye.

With Ford I remember the the non-Mazda produced Escorts, and Taurus when they changed up the body primer and all that peeling paint With GM take your pick: Cavalier, Achieva, Lumina... not exactly the bastion of reliability.

I have been in the Fusion and the 500. Really nice sedans. This is the first time in 15 years that I was impressed with an American make.

 

[dronezero]

Actually, I would appreciate it if you would stop lying about what I actually say. Is that too much to ask ?

You have yet to quote me accurately even one time.

If we can get past this, perhaps we can have a conversation.

Where have I quoted you that is inaccurate? I've been using the quote button and haven't changed a thing.

 

[craigsub]

Very nice cars Craig. did you get the 6-speed SRT8 with the retro Bumble bee package? I have always like manual shifts. My sports car now is an
S2000 with an Invidia exhaust; not quite as fast as your two cars but fast enough

Later,

MidCow2

P.S.- Howdoes the Shelby Mustang drive

As the Z-06 is a 6 speed, I took pity on my bride and got the 5 speed auto for the Challenger. The Shelby was sold to make room for the Challenger.

The S2000 is a great car, but at 6 feet, 3 inches, neither it nor a Miata work for me. OF course, neither did the Viper.

 

[lsiberian]

I have a 2008 Z-06 ... love that car.

I Also just bought a 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT-8, and love it.

Some car dealers have a mistress. I prefer sports cars ... They are less money, don't irritate God, and are LOTS less trouble.

Now of course there are exceptions. I wouldn't mind a Mustang, Challenger, or Camaro. Of course I don't like the rear of the camaro, but I love the Challenger.

Still I would much rather have a supped Mazda. I buy my cars like speakers. I drive as many as I can and go home with the one that feels the best.

Putting 25,000 miles a year on a sports car is bit much though IMO. So I stick to the mileage ones.

 

[annunaki]

The responses in this thread are absurd. The government is not taking over GM (not yet anyways). GM is requesting more money from the federal government. The White House said that if they want the money they are going to need to make major changes, starting with a new CEO. Wagoner could have stayed on if he wanted and face the imminent bankruptcy that he drove the company to, but he chose that the best option for the company was for him to step down and accept federal aid.

To imply that Obama is going to be running GM is ludicrous.

If he was a smart business man, he would outlay a very specific plan, declare bankruptcy, renegotiate all union contracts and build the brand(s)/business back up. He should give the finger to Gov. money. That in my opinion is the best option. If it cost him his job, so be it.

I am not a Ford guy whatsoever, but I have to admit I like the fact they have not taken any money from the taxpayers.

 

[annunaki]

Hahaha....

Sorry dude....no offense but that was funny.

Maybe you should wikipedia Mercedes Benz, they have been the author of every major breakthrough in the automotive industry basically since its inception.

Don't get me wrong, Toyata, and Honda make amazing vehicles, but certainly not cutting edge. Other than maybe the Nissan GTR.

Remember that Nissan is really Renault catered to the Japanese & American markets.

 

[jcilforever]

1. Is there a problem with a third party doing this ? Perhaps you would feel better if Toyota ran the survey ? Besides owning the dealerships, I also work in the long term warranty industry, and have access to the average claims per vehicle sold over the past 20 years. If you want any specifics, just ask.

The problem is with the surveys and not actual data of repairs, how many people are willing to fill out surveys? Just the very satified and very pissed. This is within the first 3 years of a vehicles life, it is easy to rank well, by the way please post what place each manufacturer took, not just number and country. How about 5 years and 7 years?-
2. Here is a paragraph directly from JD Powers:



Do you see the part about this being about three year old vehicles ? Each manufacturer is rated by the dependability of vehicles purchased three years ago until today.

3. As a Ford dealer, I have visited several of our factories. There is no "parking lot" of vehicles that need repair.

You must have taken the dealer tour I have personally been in Ford plants that have parking lots yes parking lots that need to be repaired. I am a vendor of quality control inspection equipment for automotive. Specifially the Ford plant in Atlanta where they make the five hundred and mercury cars they have parking lots full of cars that need repairs before shipment.

Ford is not much better, designing the explorer with a high center of gravity causing it to tip over, their solution deflate the tires by 5 PSI and blame it on Firestone when treads started seperating and causing accidents. Back in the 70's convicted of engineering plastic parts to fail after warranty. Problem in 90's with F150's of Gas tanks exploding when struck by side. Paint issues where color does not adhere to primer and peels off within 5 years. I could go on but have proved my point.

The issue is how a company is run, not the ethnicity of the people who own the company.

Since you own a Ford dealer, I would consider you a biased source.

I service the manufacturing plants of GM, Ford, Mercedes, BMW, Nissan, Hyundai, Freightliner, Volvo, Toyota, Honda and others. (visit their Quality Control Departments where problems are delt with).

Since you are a dealer enlighten us about the problems that you have seen with Fords.

 

[craigsub]

You must have taken the dealer tour I have personally been in Ford plants that have parking lots yes parking lots that need to be repaired. I am a vendor of quality control inspection equipment for automotive. Specifially the Ford plant in Atlanta where they make the five hundred and mercury cars.

Ford is not much better, designing the explorer with a high center of gravity causing it to tip over, their solution deflate the tires by 5 PSI and blame it on Firestone when treads started seperating and causing accidents. Back in the 70's convicted of engineering plastic parts to fail after warranty. Problem in 90's with F150's of Gas tanks exploding when struck by side. Paint issues where color does not adhere to primer and peels off within 5 years. I could go on but have proved my point.

The issue is how a company is run, not the ethnicity of the people who own the company.

Since you own a Ford dealer, I would consider you a biased source.

I service GM, Ford, Mercedes, Nissan, Hyundai, Freightliner, Volvo, Toyota, and others.

You have not proven anything other than the ability to type a lot of hype.

My primary business is in underwriting long term warranties on vehicles from brand new vehicles to 20 year old vehicles. I get to see the raw data in regards to the cost of repair for all these vehicles.

You can check JD Power, Consumer Reports, and any insurance data, and you will find that Ford matches well against any Import.

Now, you your getting the "biased" shot in. This is why I own a Vette and a Challenger, because I am biased.

I have a partner that runs the dealership. Tomorrow I will be spending with a major Toyota client. Thursday, it is with an Acura and Honda dual store. Unlike you, I happen to not only like a lot of products, I don't deliberately knock down any one company's products based on unproveable nonsense. Your post reads like Danny Ocean at the end of Ocean's 11 when he tells Terry "I know a guy" ...

Next time you call someone biased, look in a mirror, preferably after you read the biased post you just wasted the bandwidth on.

I do have to ask ... what were you smoking to bring "ethnicity" into the conversation ?

 

[craigsub]

Mr. Jcilforever put the following into his post as if it was part of my post, these were actually his words:

The problem is with the surveys and not actual data of repairs, how many people are willing to fill out surveys? Just the very satified and very pissed. This is within the first 3 years of a vehicles life, it is easy to rank well, by the way please post what place each manufacturer took, not just number and country. How about 5 years and 7 years?-

So ... in your mind, JD Power does not run a proper survey, but rather report on people who are only "very pissed" or "very satisfied".

I am sure not getting your approval will see them closing their doors by the end of the week.

Here are some 7 year old vehicle underwriting statistics in regards to basic insurance premium for putting a 4 year, 48,000 mile policy on a vehicle with 70,000 miles on it. This means the vehicle will have 118,000 miles and will be 11 years old when the policy expires.

Ford Taurus - $938
Toyota Camry - $913
Porsche 911 - $4537

 

[jcilforever]

You have not proven anything other than the ability to type a lot of hype.

My primary business is in underwriting long term warranties on vehicles from brand new vehicles to 20 year old vehicles. I get to see the raw data in regards to the cost of repair for all these vehicles.

You can check JD Power, Consumer Reports, and any insurance data, and you will find that Ford matches well against any Import.

Now, you your getting the "biased" shot in. This is why I own a Vette and a Challenger, because I am biased.

I have a partner that runs the dealership. Tomorrow I will be spending with a major Toyota client. Thursday, it is with an Acura and Honda dual store. Unlike you, I happen to not only like a lot of products, I don't deliberately knock down any one company's products based on unproveable nonsense. Your post reads like Danny Ocean at the end of Ocean's 11 when he tells Terry "I know a guy" ...

Next time you call someone biased, look in a mirror, preferably after you read the biased post you just wasted the bandwidth on.

I do have to ask ... what were you smoking to bring "ethnicity" into the conversation ?

When you actually work on the manufacturers floor and not the showroom floor get back to me.

How am I biased

Here is some proof:

http://www.carcomplaints.com/top_vehicles.shtml


6.5 million recalled due to Fords catching fire:http://www.fordproblems.com/investigations/F-150/1997/


More engine fires http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/results.cfm?SearchType=QuickSearch&rcl_ID=87V144000&summary=true

Ford explorer tire incedent that was blamed on Firestone it pays to be ford and have more lobbist: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/defect/results.cfm?action_number=DP98001&SearchType=QuickSearch&summary=true

Spark plugs ejecting from Ford engines http://www.fordproblems.com/spark-plug-ejected-from-engine.shtml

More ford blames low center of gravity and deflation of tires on Firestone http://www.autobuyguide.com/1991/12-aut/ford/explorer/recalls/index.html

More sparkplugs blew and caused fire:http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/ford_spark.html

HMM why would most of the recalled tires be on Ford explorers MAYBE BECAUSE THEY DEFLATE THEM BY 5 PSI! http://www.tiredefects.com/tire-tread-separation-firestone-manufacturing.cfm

Ford rollovers so popular a lawyer makes a living from it http://www.rolloverlawyer.com/ford_defects/F150.htm

Repair kit made for Ford spark plug blow out http://www.timesert.com/html/triton_repair.html

Paint problems http://www.lemonlaw.com/wordpress/more-problems-for-ford-paint-defects-in-2000-2005-models/

So do Michelin's cause explorers to rollover too? http://www.tiredefects.com/michelin/michelin-tire-failure-ford-explorer-rollover-lawsuit.cfm

Government coverup for Ford http://tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/program.pl?ID=94233

Fords on fire http://www.flamingfords.info/index.htm
Loss of house first time I have heard of a car causing someone to loose their house but then again it was a FORDhttp://www.vehicle-injuries.com/ford-fire-defect.htm

Paint flaking http://www.autosafety.org/ford

Is this enough or should I go on????????????????

 

[craigsub]

When you actually work on the manufacturers floor and not the showroom floor get back to me.

How am I biased

Here is some proof:

http://www.carcomplaints.com/top_vehicles.shtml


6.5 million recalled due to Fords catching fire:http://www.fordproblems.com/investigations/F-150/1997/


More engine fires http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/results.cfm?SearchType=QuickSearch&rcl_ID=87V144000&summary=true

Ford explorer tire incedent that was blamed on Firestone it pays to be ford and have more lobbist: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/defect/results.cfm?action_number=DP98001&SearchType=QuickSearch&summary=true

Spark plugs ejecting from Ford engines http://www.fordproblems.com/spark-plug-ejected-from-engine.shtml

More ford blames low center of gravity and deflation of tires on Firestone http://www.autobuyguide.com/1991/12-aut/ford/explorer/recalls/index.html

More sparkplugs blew and caused fire:http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/ford_spark.html

HMM why would most of the recalled tires be on Ford explorers MAYBE BECAUSE THEY DEFLATE THEM BY 5 PSI! http://www.tiredefects.com/tire-tread-separation-firestone-manufacturing.cfm

Ford rollovers so popular a lawyer makes a living from it http://www.rolloverlawyer.com/ford_defects/F150.htm

Repair kit made for Ford spark plug blow out http://www.timesert.com/html/triton_repair.html

Paint problems http://www.lemonlaw.com/wordpress/more-problems-for-ford-paint-defects-in-2000-2005-models/

So do Michelin's cause explorers to rollover too? http://www.tiredefects.com/michelin/michelin-tire-failure-ford-explorer-rollover-lawsuit.cfm

Government coverup for Ford http://tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/program.pl?ID=94233

Fords on fire http://www.flamingfords.info/index.htm
Loss of house first time I have heard of a car causing someone to loose their house but then again it was a FORDhttp://www.vehicle-injuries.com/ford-fire-defect.htm

Paint flaking http://www.autosafety.org/ford

Is this enough or should I go on????????????????

Here is an easy example of your bias. I don't "work on a showroom floor". I work in the underwriting industry for long term warranties for every manufacturer that sells vehicles in North America. Underwriting data is better source of objective data than is one guy on the internet yapping about "I saw them in a parking lot".

I own the dealerships, with partner, who runs them on a daily basis.

Another example of your bias, the only company against whom you have posted negative links is Ford.

That is anything but unbiased, nor is it reasonable.

But that's ok, you started in this thread by calling every post absurd.

Being reasonable is not something which is possible for you.

I will, however, look at your "evidence", and post an appropriate response later. This should be fun.

 

[craigsub]

Responses ...

Item "1" ... The car complaints dot com website has one manufacturer/dealer as a sponsor/advertiser. That is a Toyota dealership, and a link to this dealership is on the car complaints website : http://www.toyotaescondido.com/

Item "2" ... From the NHSTA actual report:

EA05-005 IS CLOSED WITH FORD'S ACTIONS IN RECALLS 05V-017, 05V-388, AND 06V-286, RECALLING APPROXIMATELY 6.7 MILLION VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH TEXAS INSTRUMENTS SPEED CONTROL DEACTIVATION SWITCHES (SCDS). THE BRAKE SYSTEMS IN THESE RECALLED VEHICLES GENERATE A VACUUM THAT CAN POTENTIALLY CAUSE THE SCDS TO FAIL AND, IN CERTAIN SWITCH INSTALLATION ORIENTATIONS, CATCH FIRE.

Ford agreed to replace all the Texas Instruments SCDS in any vehicle that had them, including vehicles which were not subject to the recall. Reasonable people would conclude that Ford was interested in customer safety.

Item 3 .... This link takes us to 1983-1987 Ford Econoline Vans. Here is a direct quote from the link:

Summary:
VEHICLES ARE SUBJECT TO EXCESSIVE UNDERHOOD TEMPERATURES AND FUEL SYSTEM PRESSURES IN SEVERE DUTY APPLICATIONS.
Consequence:
THIS CREATES POTENTIAL FOR FUEL EXPULSION FROM THE FUELFILLER PIPE WHICH IN THE PRESENCE OF AN IGNITION SOURCE, COULD RESULT IN AFIRE.
Remedy:
INSTALL MODIFICATION KITS TO MINIMIZE POSSIBILITY OF FUEL EXPULSION AND TO SHIELD UNDERBODY COMPONENTS FROM EXHAUST SYSTEM HEAT.

Note, unlike what JC posted, this was not "more engine fires".

Item #4 ... The link shows a petition opened on 01-06-98 and closed on 02-04-98, with no action requested by the NHSTA.

Item #5 ... The link shows one unnamed "mechanic" with an anonymous complaint. Gather a posse, let's HANG EM.

Item #6 ... Please people, read this one for yourself.

This is enough ... JC, I suggest you seek professional help. There is nothing anyone can do here to help you. This obsession is not healthy.

Peace, man.

 

[rnatalli]

I own a Lincoln and it has given me zero problems so far. It's my first American car. At the same point, the Nissan, Honda, Saab, Mercedes I've owned (all new), had some issues come up. I believe Ford has made some real effort to make better cars as the new Lincolns, Fusions do well in reliability ratings. I wouldn't count Ford out.