Need help picking drivers for a 3 way.

[Mike82]

I was pretty set on making a MTM 2 way set of mains untill i talked to my dad. He really suggest on a budget to build a 3 way. He says I would get more out of it. I was thinking about doing a dome tweeter (SEAS 27TDFC) and a 6.5in mid I am stuck between the SEAS P18RNX/P and SEAS ER18RNX. He was also saying that a 5in for mid might be better considering they are faster and can be more accurate, considering I will not need it to go very low. For the lower mid and bass I am stuck between the SEAS P21RF/P which are on sale right now for 59.00 and the Dayton RS225S-8 which are both 8in. I am not sure if a 10in might be better for handling the lower end of the mid range and bass. I was thinking 10in right away but thought 8in to make a better looking floor standing speaker. I will be getting a sub woofer for handling the real low stuff. I thought I would run it by you guys to see what you thought. If you guys can think of better drivers please let me know. I am looking to keep driver cost down to 400 though.

 

[Swerd]

I was pretty set on making a MTM 2 way set of mains untill i talked to my dad. He really suggest on a budget to build a 3 way. He says I would get more out of it. I was thinking about doing a dome tweeter (SEAS 27TDFC) and a 6.5in mid I am stuck between the SEAS P18RNX/P and SEAS ER18RNX. He was also saying that a 5in for mid might be better considering they are faster and can be more accurate, considering I will not need it to go very low. For the lower mid and bass I am stuck between the SEAS P21RF/P which are on sale right now for 59.00 and the Dayton RS225S-8 which are both 8in. I am not sure if a 10in might be better for handling the lower end of the mid range and bass. I was thinking 10in right away but thought 8in to make a better looking floor standing speaker. I will be getting a sub woofer for handling the real low stuff. I thought I would run it by you guys to see what you thought. If you guys can think of better drivers please let me know. I am looking to keep driver cost down to 400 though.

The Seas 27TDFC is a very good tweeter. You would do better using a 5" midrange such as a Seas ER15RLY or CA15RLY. As far as bass, go with the Dayton RS225s. You'll may need two to get enough sensitivity to match the mid and tweet. Avoid the 10" woofers, they will have to be crossed over too low to be useful. And most 10" woofers are even less sensitive, except for the very expensive ones.

There are several reasons why I think you should use 5" mid and an 8" woofer and not larger drivers. Read and understand this article to get a good explanation why.

Now for the big question. What will you do for a crossover? Do not expect good results with an off-the-shelf generic crossover, such as those sold by Parts Express. For good results, plan on using a crossover custom designed for the drivers and the cabinet they will be mounted in. I cannot emphasize this enough. If you have little or no experience doing this, avoid problems and disappointment by using one of the many good DIY designs available on the internet.

If you are new to DIY you should also be aware that a 3-way crossover is much more difficult to design than a 2-way, including MTM 2-ways. You can get excellent results, including good bass response, from a number of DIY MTMs available. I don't know what your budget or experience is, so I'll stop here, but I can suggest a number of good DIY speaker building web sites that have excellent designs that have been properly tested and tweaked.

 

[Mike82]

Thanks for all the input and info. I am new to this DIY thing but my dad has been doing it for alot of years and will help me through the crossover stuff. I am working on getting a better understanding of it myself right now. I am planning on getting a copy of X-Over 3 Pro to play around with. I would appreciate some links to pre built 3 ways, which might be a better option for me right now. Thanks again

Mike

 

[Swerd]

Thanks for all the input and info. I am new to this DIY thing but my dad has been doing it for alot of years and will help me through the crossover stuff. I am working on getting a better understanding of it myself right now. I am planning on getting a copy of X-Over 3 Pro to play around with. I would appreciate some links to pre built 3 ways, which might be a better option for me right now. Thanks again

Mike

Here are a few well known ones, in no particular order:

Dennis Murphy's MBOW1 3-way

Zaph Audio ZDT 3.5

RJB Audio Dionysus, JDB3, Alpheus Mk II

Jim Holtz's MiniStatements

Curt C's designs

You should also look around at other designs on those web sites. I've probably forgotten some others, but all these are good designers who will answer email questions.

Good luck

 

[lsiberian]

I know it's not a 3-way, but a Thor TL has very similar response to some 3-way. It's an mtm, but has a very impressive response and does fairly well off axis too.
http://www.audioxcel.com/audioXpress Thor Review.pdf

It would match your Center TL really well too.

 

[Mike82]

I have found 2 out of the ones you posted that I really like. The one which is most economical is the Zaph ZDT 3.5, which could be put together for 400 in driver and crossover parts. The other that I am looking at is one of Curt's designs called the Statements which really look nice. But the driver cost and x-overs would cost 800. I am not certain but am guessing that the Statements would be in a higher class of speaker. What do you guys think?

http://www.geocities.com/cc00541/Statements.html

 

[lsiberian]

I have found 2 out of the ones you posted that I really like. The one which is most economical is the Zaph ZDT 3.5, which could be put together for 400 in driver and crossover parts. The other that I am looking at is one of Curt's designs called the Statements which really look nice. But the driver cost and x-overs would cost 800. I am not certain but am guessing that the Statements would be in a higher class of speaker. What do you guys think?

http://www.geocities.com/cc00541/Statements.html

Zaph is a very good speaker designer from what i've heard. I would go with his designs. Especially considering the savings.

 

[Swerd]

I have found 2 out of the ones you posted that I really like. The one which is most economical is the Zaph ZDT 3.5, which could be put together for 400 in driver and crossover parts. The other that I am looking at is one of Curt's designs called the Statements which really look nice. But the driver cost and x-overs would cost 800. I am not certain but am guessing that the Statements would be in a higher class of speaker. What do you guys think?

I agree with Isiberian. Go with the ZDT 3.5, its a very good design, but its not in the same class (or price) as the Statements.

It might be better to compare the ZDT 3.5 to the MiniStatements, but it will probably still be more expensive than the ZDT 3.5. The ribbon tweeters in the MiniStatement cost a whole lot more than the tweeters in the ZDT 3.5.

 

[Mike82]

I am on the fence between the MiniStatements and the ZDT 3.5. It will be about an extra 150 dollars for the MiniStatements but I am willing to spend that if they will sound better. Also I am thinking one might sound better in my space than the other. My space in 13 X 16 with a divider in the middle, without the divider the room is 13X30. Here are some pictures of my space. As you can see in my pictures I have to toe my speakers in because of the size of my screen and my sitting area. They don't have to be corner loaded and can come out some but not too much as you can see.


http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1581c.jpg

http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1582j.jpg

 

[krzywica]

He said 3 way......snicker...

lol...sorry I couldn't resist.

 

[lsiberian]

I am on the fence between the MiniStatements and the ZDT 3.5. It will be about an extra 150 dollars for the MiniStatements but I am willing to spend that if they will sound better. Also I am thinking one might sound better in my space than the other. My space in 13 X 16 with a divider in the middle, without the divider the room is 13X30. Here are some pictures of my space. As you can see in my pictures I have to toe my speakers in because of the size of my screen and my sitting area. They don't have to be corner loaded and can come out some but not too much as you can see.


http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1581c.jpg

http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1582j.jpg

I would just go with the ZDTs. Save your money for blu-rays or something else. Like a pair of Kappa Perfect subs.

 

[Swerd]

I am on the fence between the MiniStatements and the ZDT 3.5. It will be about an extra 150 dollars for the MiniStatements but I am willing to spend that if they will sound better. Also I am thinking one might sound better in my space than the other. My space in 13 X 16 with a divider in the middle, without the divider the room is 13X30. Here are some pictures of my space. As you can see in my pictures I have to toe my speakers in because of the size of my screen and my sitting area. They don't have to be corner loaded and can come out some but not too much as you can see.

http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1581c.jpg
http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1582j.jpg

Mike

You ask a tough question, because I haven't heard either of these speakers. I'll try to sum up the pros & cons as I see it:

Both John Krutke (Zaph) and Jim Holtz are very good designers. Don't worry about who might be better.

Both are 3.5 way designs using two RS180 woofers, where each woofer has different low-pass filters. They both are 4 ohm speakers with their lowest impedance down to about 3 ohms. Zaph mentions that his inexpensive Panasonic receiver drives the ZDT 3.5 without apparent trouble, and that a NAD 120 wpc amp does very well. I would guess that the MiniStatement, with the same woofers, will be similar.

The main difference between these two designs is the mid range drivers. I've heard other DIY designs with the Dayton RS52 2" dome and I like it. I haven't heard the Tang Band 4" titanium, but many other DIY people say it sounds excellent. The advantage of the 2" Dayton dome (in addition to price) over the 4" Tang Band would be its better high frequency dispersion. It's disadvantage is its low frequency response, lower power handling, requiring a higher woofer-to-mid crossover point. In the MiniStatement, the Tang Band 4" titanium midrange can go to lower frequencies and has better power handling. The woofer-mid crossover in the MiniStatement is at 400 Hz instead of 850 in the ZDT 3.5. In the ZDT 3.5, there may be (I'm speculating here) audible differences in the off-axis response as the woofers roll off at 850 Hz and as the 2' dome mid kicks in. In the MiniStatements, this transition takes place at 400 Hz where the off-axis response of the woofers is likely to be better.

The inexpensive Dayton ND20 tweeter in the ZDT 3.5 is actually very good if you use a high enough crossover point as in the ZDT 3.5. It is a good choice to use with the 2" dome midrange. Because it is a ¾" dome, it will have excellent off axis performance. The Fountek NeoCD 3 ribbon tweeter is a lot more expensive (it is also out of stock now at Madisound) and may have a "cleaner sound" than the dome tweeter, but I think it will make a smaller difference than the differences in the two midrange drivers. For what its worth, ribbon tweeters usually have noticeably narrower off-axis dispersion than do small dome tweeters.

There, I hope that helps.

 

[Mike82]

Thank you for the detailed reply. After doing some research and with your reply i think I am going to go with the mini statements, they are a little more money but I think it is more what I am looking for. Thanks again for all your help. I plan on starting these in a week or so depending on the weather. I will post my progress here.

 

[Mike82]

Picked up my MDF today from Home Depot they cut all my main cuts except the bracers and little stuff for no charge. They also did it very good within a 1/16. I have a table saw but for no charge and not to have to handle those big sheets I figured I could not go wrong. I will post my progress this week.

 

[lsiberian]

Picked up my MDF today from Home Depot they cut all my main cuts except the bracers and little stuff for no charge. They also did it very good within a 1/16. I have a table saw but for no charge and not to have to handle those big sheets I figured I could not go wrong. I will post my progress this week.

At lowe's they have this sick cutting device. That they just pull down.

make sure you have good dust collection on your router for working with mdf.

 

[Mike82]

Spent some time on the cabinets today got the first step glued up. Had to run to Menards and grab more clamps and better router bits. Other than that they are coming together nicely. I will post some pictures sunday if I get time.

 

[Mike82]

I got the cabinets ready for the fronts to go on minus insulation, thought I would snap a few pictures to keep you guys posted.

 

[skyline_123]

Have any more progress pictures?

I'm in a bit of the same situation; I'm looking for a good DIY set of mains to build but can't seem to find a design that sticks out as the ONE. Do I get my hands dirty with the cheap and easy TriTrix TL or future proof myself a little better and do something like the ZDT or the Mini Statements (maybe even the Statements if someone could convince me)? I've never heard any of them and it seems few people have personally heard them enough to compare them to each other.

Hate to bring up an old thread but it's nice seeing someone's progress that is in the same boat as myself.

 

[WmAx]

Have any more progress pictures?

I'm in a bit of the same situation; I'm looking for a good DIY set of mains to build but can't seem to find a design that sticks out as the ONE. Do I get my hands dirty with the cheap and easy TriTrix TL or future proof myself a little better and do something like the ZDT or the Mini Statements (maybe even the Statements if someone could convince me)? I've never heard any of them and it seems few people have personally heard them enough to compare them to each other.

Hate to bring up an old thread but it's nice seeing someone's progress that is in the same boat as myself.

Something like the Zaph multi-way tower, etc., is a reliable design. It has high quality drivers with a good xover design, with a target nuetral design. Use a high quality DSP EQ to tailor the sound to your preference. To increase fidelity/SQ dramatically, ignore the suggested cabinet design and acoustic absorption materials and build the cabinet to a much higher standard to prevent audible resonance(s). Virtually all of the DIY designs see, to have poor cabinet designs that result in substantial audible coloration(s).

-Chris