WmAx's Eclipse SW8200 12" Subwoofer?

[WmAx]

It looks like the SW8200 have very recently been discontinued.

Unfortunately, I can not recommend the SW8210. The SW8200 was engineered by TC Sounds/Audio Pulse, using their LMS technology. The SW8210 is not verified by any credible 3rd party, and the SW8200 was(and a very extraordinary motor) verified, and has more true linear displacement than most 15" drivers. Yes, it is THAT incredible. A Kappa Perfect 12VQ ported project would still have more LF output of course, but this Eclipse project is specified strictly for sealed application, where it will outperform almost any high end 15" sealed retail home subwoofer, if you supply it with about 1000 Watts and use it with the specified correction filters I have provided in my prior posts concerning this driver.

This retailer appears to have some in stock, but you need to call to verify stock status and do a web search for customer service history of the company:
http://www.shopaudiovideo.com/eclsw8200.html

An ebay seller has a couple of new SW8200 units in stock, but he is asking a bit more than some:
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Eclipse-12-SW-8200-sub_W0QQitemZ190277521156QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Subwoofers_Enclosures

Someone asked if the AP LMS was a suitable replacement. Of course it is(though the AP is of far higher cost)! The AP LMS would actually be superior, as it is actually built by AP(not just designed) and also has far higher thermal capacity as compared to the Eclipse unit. Of course, you should use around 1500-2000 watts for the AP LMS version.

-Chris

 

[t3steve]

Iit will outperform almost any high end 15" sealed retail home subwoofer, if you supply it with about 1000 Watts and use it with the specified correction filters I have provided in my prior posts concerning this driver.

-Chris

Using the O audio 500w amp how loud will it go in my large(3200ft^3 open to a little larger space) room? Will it play 100 dbl at 20hz?

 

[t3steve]

It looks like the SW8200 have very recently been discontinued.

Unfortunately, I can not recommend the SW8210. The SW8200 was engineered by TC Sounds/Audio Pulse, using their LMS technology. The SW8210 is not .

This retailer appears to have some in stock, but you need to call to verify stock status and do a web search for customer service history of the company:
http://www.shopaudiovideo.com/eclsw8200.html



Someone asked if the AP LMS was a suitable replacement. Of course it is(though the AP is of far higher cost)! The AP LMS would actually be superior, as it is actually built by AP(not just designed) and also has far higher thermal capacity as compared to the Eclipse unit. Of course, you should use around 1500-2000 watts for the AP LMS version.

-Chris

I called Eclipse and spoke with a Tech and they confirmed that the SW8210 DOES NOT have a LMS motor but he said the T/S parameter were similar. I commented that that must have cut manufacturing cost and he said "yes, considerably"

I ordered from them but I can't actually get them to confirm the order.

the AP LMS is out of my price range.

How do I multi-quote in one reply?

 

[t3steve]

Yea

I found a Sw8200 and I ordered a O Audio Amp and they are on their way.

Now I have to find the 3/4 inch 13ply and the 8lb rock wool.

I think I will have the 1st one of these subs on the forum.

 

[lsiberian]

Yea

I found a Sw8200 and I ordered a O Audio Amp and they are on their way.

Now I have to find the 3/4 inch 13ply and the 8lb rock wool.

I think I will have the 1st one of these subs on the forum.

SPI(Rockwool) and Lowes(Ply)

 

[t3steve]

Thanks for the info
I have a lot more questions.

I will be building my own cabinet to save the
$189.44 for the cabinet
$73.64 Shipping

also so I can build it out of ply instead of mdf.

So
keeping in mind that for the WAF it has to be as small as possible is the PE box an optimal size or would a different size make a noticeable improvement in performance?

How much internal bracing is required?

Is the Eq on the O Audio amp such that it would work best with a certain size encloser for SW8200 driver?

are speaker cabinet floor spikes needed?

Would it be better to corner load a smaller cabinet or have a larger cabinet as a end table about 3-4 feet from walls?

 

[WmAx]

Using the O audio 500w amp how loud will it go in my large(3200ft^3 open to a little larger space) room? Will it play 100 dbl at 20hz?

Under ideal conditions (corner loaded sub + ideal listening chair placement), I would expect it to be able to exceed 100dB at 20Hz, and 110Hz at over 30Hz, as measured at the listening position. However, this is assuming optimal amplifier. The BASH 500 may cost you roughly 3 dB compared to an ideal amplifier (1000+ Watts). This is a moderately large area you want to fill, and this sub system will produce substantial output, but it was still specified as a compromise in output level in order to get a smaller cabinet and go sealed, compared to say the Kappa Perfect ported project that is popular on these forums.

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

So
keeping in mind that for the WAF it has to be as small as possible is the PE box an optimal size or would a different size make a noticeable improvement in performance?

If you go larger than 2.5-3 feet, you are defeating the entire purpose for going for this sealed system: space saving. Also, if a substantially larger cabinet was allowed, then I recommend other solutions, involving slot ported systems using a different driver than the SW8200(which is not suited for any ported applications).

How much internal bracing is required?

Look at some various pics of other DIY subs completed recently on this site and you will get an idea of optimal bracing.

Is the Eq on the O Audio amp such that it would work best with a certain size encloser for SW8200 driver?

The EQ is adjustable, and you will be using it to flatten the otherwise peaked response of using this driver in a small sealed cabinet. The specific setting depends on the final cabinet volume you choose. When you make this decision I can give you the ideal EQ setting.

are speaker cabinet floor spikes needed?

Not unless you have a stability problem. If you have wood joisted/suspended floors, then you will be better off using a de-coupling mechanism like the Auralex GRAMMA or similar.

Would it be better to corner load a smaller cabinet or have a larger cabinet as a end table about 3-4 feet from walls?

Size is not an issue here. The issue is room acoustics. All you can do is try both positions to find the one that sounds/measures best.

-Chris

 

[dxjnorto]

I can get a better price than that, but it is still a bit over $200.00.

Do tell??!

Hey t3steve, where did you get your SW8200? Also, I know you already ordered OAudio, but check out the LT/1300 at edesignaudio. They are getting up there in price. They were $350 when I bought mine six months ago.

Oh, I see you got your SW8200 directly from Eclipse? How much?

 

[annunaki]

Do tell??!

Send me a PM when you are able.

 

[dxjnorto]

Send me a PM when you are able.

Sent. Thanks! Anticipation.

I like the high roll surround on the LM12D2!

 

[sawzalot]

I can get a better price than that, but it is still a bit over $200.00.

I have been considering my own build and these definitely spark some interest from me as well .

 

[t3steve]

I found the SW8200 at shopaudivideo, but it was the last one.

You are right right Chris
I think I will go with 3ft^3 the same size as the PE box. I will place it in a corner and hope for the best.

Would it be better to go with 4" of rockwool on all sides or just the 2" and 4" on bottom?

 

[lsiberian]

I have been considering my own build and these definitely spark some interest from me as well .

You may consider an Axis Pulse build. Considering your room size.

 

[dxjnorto]

Here's what I'm doing. My box is about 2.5 cubic feet sealed. The SW8200 models almost the same as the LM12D2 in my box. Although the LM12D2's F3 is 26Hz while the SW8200's is 28Hz. Not a big difference. Both woofers will have a Qtc of about 0.9. I understand this should not be a problem in the open area my home theater is in--My living room is combined with my dining room and kitchen with just a dividing wall between the kitchen and living room. It's about 7000 cubic feet. There shouldn't be much room gain. But I also know that when drivers heat up their impedence increases. Then doesn't this raise Q? Heat raises Q, but you can't lower Q, so maybe 0.9 is not a good starting point. I almost bought a JL Audio 12W7 where the Qtc starts at 0.67. Does anyone know anything about all this? I read a big thing on Q yesterday that made it seem like a Qtc closer to 1 produces a waveform that is a lot closer to the source input than a Qtc of .5 or .707. I'll see if I can find and post it.

I know I could start fresh and build a different box. For the time being, I want to use what I have available. Maybe the LM12D2 would be a great drop-in. I know the high roll surround mitigates or solves problems with the surround separating from the cone at the limits of excursion, but I'm not prone to violence with subwoofers. I just want to get the most out of the box I have that already fits in my home theater setup.

Is the LM12D2's cone aluminum? I can't tell from the picture. Is there any clear advantage of the LM12D2 over the SW8200? If I wait much longer I won't be able to find the SW8200 obviously. (Or maybe the 12W7 has the advantage?)

 

[annunaki]

Here's what I'm doing. My box is about 2.5 cubic feet sealed. The SW8200 models almost the same as the LM12D2 in my box. Although the LM12D2's F3 is 26Hz while the SW8200's is 28Hz. Not a big difference. Both woofers will have a Qtc of about 0.9. I understand this should not be a problem in the open area my home theater is in--My living room is combined with my dining room and kitchen with just a dividing wall between the kitchen and living room. It's about 7000 cubic feet. There shouldn't be much room gain. But I also know that when drivers heat up their impedence increases. Then doesn't this raise Q? Heat raises Q, but you can't lower Q, so maybe 0.9 is not a good starting point. I almost bought a JL Audio 12W7 where the Qtc starts at 0.67. Does anyone know anything about all this? I read a big thing on Q yesterday that made it seem like a Qtc closer to 1 produces a waveform that is a lot closer to the source input than a Qtc of .5 or .707. I'll see if I can find and post it.

I know I could start fresh and build a different box. For the time being, I want to use what I have available. Maybe the LM12D2 would be a great drop-in. I know the high roll surround mitigates or solves problems with the surround separating from the cone at the limits of excursion, but I'm not prone to violence with subwoofers. I just want to get the most out of the box I have that already fits in my home theater setup.

Is the LM12D2's cone aluminum? I can't tell from the picture. Is there any clear advantage of the LM12D2 over the SW8200? If I wait much longer I won't be able to find the SW8200 obviously. (Or maybe the 12W7 has the advantage?)

Please see the PM I sent you earlier.

 

[WmAx]

Here's what I'm doing. My box is about 2.5 cubic feet sealed. The SW8200 models almost the same as the LM12D2 in my box. Although the LM12D2's F3 is 26Hz while the SW8200's is 28Hz. Not a big difference. Both woofers will have a Qtc of about 0.9. I understand this should not be a problem in the open area my home theater is in--My living room is combined with my dining room and kitchen with just a dividing wall between the kitchen and living room. It's about 7000 cubic feet. There shouldn't be much room gain. But I also know that when drivers heat up their impedence increases. Then doesn't this raise Q? Heat raises Q, but you can't lower Q, so maybe 0.9 is not a good starting point. I almost bought a JL Audio 12W7 where the Qtc starts at 0.67. Does anyone know anything about all this? I read a big thing on Q yesterday that made it seem like a Qtc closer to 1 produces a waveform that is a lot closer to the source input than a Qtc of .5 or .707. I'll see if I can find and post it.

I know I could start fresh and build a different box. For the time being, I want to use what I have available. Maybe the LM12D2 would be a great drop-in. I know the high roll surround mitigates or solves problems with the surround separating from the cone at the limits of excursion, but I'm not prone to violence with subwoofers. I just want to get the most out of the box I have that already fits in my home theater setup.

Is the LM12D2's cone aluminum? I can't tell from the picture. Is there any clear advantage of the LM12D2 over the SW8200? If I wait much longer I won't be able to find the SW8200 obviously. (Or maybe the 12W7 has the advantage?)

The LM12D2 is the highest quality (and highest cost) option here. It will produce the most SPL with the lowest distortion. The 2nd place option is the JL W7 12". The 3rd and least costly option is the SW8200. All options require E.Q. to get the desired target response. Natural Qtc of the sealed box is irrelevant. It does not matter if the sealed box volume used produces a Qtc of 1.2. The final response characteristic is dependent on the EQ. In case of the LM12D2, I highly recommend 2000 watts RMS minimum. The W7 should get at least 1000 watts RMS, and more is ideal. The SW8200 has the lowest thermal capacity of the group. 800-1000 watts RMS would be ideal for this unit.

-Chris

 

[annunaki]

The LM12D2 is the highest quality (and highest cost) option here. It will produce the most SPL with the lowest distortion. The 2nd place option is the JL W7 12". The 3rd and least costly option is the SW8200. All options require E.Q. to get the desired target response. Natural Qtc of the sealed box is irrelevant. It does not matter if the sealed box volume used produces a Qtc of 1.2. The final response characteristic is dependent on the EQ. In case of the LM12D2, I highly recommend 2000 watts RMS minimum. The W7 should get at least 1000 watts RMS, and more is ideal. The SW8200 has the lowest thermal capacity of the group. 800-1000 watts RMS would be ideal for this unit.

-Chris

Chris,

Upon modeling the LM12D2 I can say that a larger (sealed) enclosure is not of benefit, mainly due to excursion reasons. i.e. at 1500 watts rms in 4.0ft^3 the sub will exceed xmax at just 34hz. Keeping the enclosure size to 2.5ft^3 to 3.0ft^3 keeps the excursion to allowable limits with recommended power. Exceeding that power level increases xmax past allowable limits however. That being the case, I would caution against so much input power.

 

[t3steve]

I have a internal bracing question
I will be building the cabinet out of Baltic Birch Plywood to the same dimensions as the 3 ft^3 PE box. It looks like the PE box just has a simple crossed stick bracing in the center. but when I look at other plans and builds I see much more extensive and complicated bracing schemes.
What would you suggest?


Do I just edge glue the sides together or do I need to use screws also?

 

[t3steve]

Chris says to use two layers (4inches) of rockwool on the back wall.

Does that mean over the plate amp?