Having difficulty analyzing specs?

[Arcane19]

My biggest problem when shopping online is analyzing the specs, they confuse me.

Like when comparing cars I would look at which cars have more horsepower, torque, and fastest 0-60 time.

For speakers, what specifications would be analogous to horsepower, torque, etc. that would determine one speaker being better than another, other than actually listening to the speaker in a store.

 

[no. 5]

For speakers, what specifications would be analogous to horsepower, torque, etc. that would determine one speaker being better than another, other than actually listening to the speaker in a store.

There are other specs that have some baring on sound quality, but the single most important thing to look at is frequency response.

It is, however, very important to remember that the typical spec of "40Hz to 20kHz +/- 3dB" (or something similar) that manufactures usually provide is useless. Measurements made by a third party and presented as a graph can provide the most useful information about a loudspeaker. I did, of course, say "can" provide the most useful information, not "will" provide the most useful information; this is because the detail and resolution of the measurements is very important in ascertaining the performance of a speaker.

Flattish and smooth is what to look for in the on-axis frequency response, smooth and close in level to the on-axis response is something to look for in the off-axis response (bear in mind that as frequency increases, so does the directivity of typical loudspeaker drivers, so as frequency increases, the on and off-axis response curves will separate more). And it is very important that there be off-axis response curves (preferably to at least 60 degrees off-axis), because they will give you an idea of the quality of the reflected sound.

 

[Arcane19]

Ok, the graphs are one thing. Is there anything else to look out for?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Ok, the graphs are one thing. Is there anything else to look out for?

Impedance and sensitivity as that has a bearing on the amp/receiver you have or planning to have. Then, you have to listen to the speakers except, the room also has a huge effect on that final sound.

 

[Alex2507]

I think that continuing to do some reading here in this forum is a good way to get to know what these guys think is good. Like mtry said, the room and placement can make or break a speaker's sound. If you're looking for suggestions, listing budget, room size, existing amp/ rec'r and some general preferences will get you some pretty good recommendations.

 

[BoB/335]

I auditioned a pair of speakers this past weekend and brought along a pair I presently have for a 30 day trial.

Listening to seakers is the only real evaluation of a speaker. I was told this many times and only got out a few times to audition. I bought speakers without hearing them first. I will have to pay return shipping should I decide not to keep them. Get out there and listen!

 

[johnrmarty]

Audio specs

Audio specs are truly BS...and it makes the whole process quite difficult. Measurements by 3rd parties are great, but many of the 3rd party reviewers are in the tank for certain speaker companies as well. You can get a good feel of a speaker with their sensitivity rating. The higher the # the better the speaker will sound with less amplification. Some speakers from Martin Logan for example have a very low sensitivity 87db meaning they are power hungry. This does not necessarily mean that the speakers are bad, but it helps you narrow down what type of amp is needed or if the amp that you have will work well. There are other types of speakers that have sensitivity of 93db or higher that don't need as much initial power to be driven to full potential. Low frequency extension is another spec that is important. the lower the # the better the overall bass response. A speaker with 28hz low frequency extension has bore depth where as a lot of speakers fall into the 50hz to 60hz range.

Companies that use ports in their speakers typically have a bit more drawn out, deeper bass as well which I personally like whereas speakers that are fully sealed have tighter more precise bass and mid range response, but you give up a bit of volume as well and more power needs to be driven to non ported speakers.

Ultimately what speakers were you looking at?

 

[CraigV]

…and always remember – friends don’t let friends buy Bose

 

[fredk]

Anechoic 3rd party measurements are the best as they measure only the speaker, not the room.

This is an excellent site to start at. I only wish they had more measurements.

They also have a brief, but good explanation of why you are looking at each type of measurement.

 

[Arcane19]

…and always remember – friends don’t let friends buy Bose

Yea lol, I learned that from the stickies.

Right now I am looking at A LOT of speakers:
Axiom: M80s
AV123 Rocket: RS850
Boston Acoustics: VS 336
Emotiva: ERT-8.3
Energy Speakers: CF-70
Infinity: C336
KEF: iQ90
KEF: XQ40
Klipsch: WF-40
Monitor Audio: RS8
Monitor Audio: BR6
Pinnacle Speakers: BD 2000
Polk Audio*: TSi500
ProAc Speakers: TriTower
RBH Sound: RBH MC-6CT

So, as you can see I have no idea how to narrow down which of these speakers are better than others. All I did was go on every audio company site I could think of, and see what speakers are in my price range.

I am planning to spend about $2000 for speakers and $1000 on an Amp.

I am going to be living in an apartment

 

[john72953]

Also a consideration is the TYPE of music you will be listening to. For instance, if you are into metal and heavy rock, I wouldn't recommend looking at the Totems in my sig. They are much more suited for jazz, classical and do an amazing job in capturing the wide range of female voices.

I haven't listened to any of the speakers you listed lately, so I couldn't give you an honest/fair opinion about them, but they are certainly well-recognized with good reputations.

John

 

[the grunt]

The best way you can narrow down your list of speakers is to demo as many of them as you can find. For that matter demo all the speakers you can find since some of your list may not be available locally but something similar may be. For the internet direct brands go to their forums and look for the sub forums for auditioning speakers. For AV123 you may need to call them or try visiting Tweak City Audio’s forum since I think the AV123 forum is still down.

When you demo use music/movies you are familiar with and take notes on what you like and don’t like about the various speakers. You should also listen to speakers even if they are out of your price range because there may be something available at a lower prince that has a similar sound.

Post you’re findings back here and then people can better compare what they have heard to what you are hearing and help steer you in the right direction. In the end the only demo that will matter is how they sound in your room with your equipment so try to arrange an in home demo.

Also, since your in an apartment and presumably will move to something larger some day you might want to have a long term plan in mind. The speakers that sound great at lower volumes in an apartment may not have the same appeal to you in a larger, perhaps acoustically different room in a house. So keep in mind what you might want to do with a set of speakers that don’t translate well to another location.

I live in an apartment and personally recommend a good set of headphones, even if you do buy speakers. Headphones will play full range (better than most towers) and no matter when or how loud you listen won’t get the cops called on you. Otherwise I would recommend bookshelf speakers and if you must have more impact on the low end a separate subwoofer. This will give you more control of the lower bass which is the worst offender at bothering your neighbors since you can turn the subwoofer down or off when appropriate. Also a good subwoofer should easily move to a new location with you and the bookshelf mains could become surrounds/rears or zone 2 speakers when you move to a house.

Although not a replacement for a good subwoofer, a tactile transducer (I have a Buttkicker) can really make up for the missing lower bass when you must keep your bass turned down. A transducer can give you that lower bass shaking without shaking the walls. I feel they work great for movies and games but not so much for music.

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Dean

 

[the grunt]

Also a consideration is the TYPE of music you will be listening to. For instance, if you are into metal and heavy rock, I wouldn't recommend looking at the Totems in my sig. They are much more suited for jazz, classical and do an amazing job in capturing the wide range of female voices.

John,

I’m intrigued buy the female vocals comment about your Totems. About 3/4s of my music is female vocals and although I’m quite happy with my Axioms right now I’m planning ahead in case they don’t translate well to the house (and very acoustically) different room I’m moving into. Right now Focals are at the top of my list but I’d like to know if you can elaborate on why your Totems works so well for you at the music you listed.

Thanks,
Dean

 

[annunaki]

As has been mentioned, the flattest response over the widest range and smallest deviation is best. However, it should state at what decibel level and the deviation the measurement was taken.

Cabinet construction is also crucial. More heavily braced designs will be more true to the source due to fewer resonance issues. Nearly all commercially made speakers suffer some sort of resonance issues. Most people are very much used to the resonances in commercial speakers and are not aware of them. I am sure some even prefer it.

The best example of a resonace free* design is the B&W 802D or 802.

Example of good frequency response measurements:

40hz-22Khz +/-3db (anechoic)

Sensitivity: 90db @ 1 watt/1 meter with full band pink noise (anechoic)

*resonance free implies that any resonances occurring are either inaudible or outside the bandwidth of the woofer in the enclosure it is in.

 

[MatthewB.]

I would also check out speakers like Mackies bookshelf powered speakers. They are designed to have a very flat frequency response, and the built in amps were made especially for the drivers and enclosure. Living in an apartment they have good bass response without taking up all that much room (especially with the 8" mid range driver) Mackies will match well with subs and be more than loud enough, although I would look at Mackies and a transducer also so as not to tick off the neighbors. For 2,000 you could easily buy five Mackies and a transducer and have awesome sound for an apartment.

 

[lsiberian]

Yea lol, I learned that from the stickies.

Right now I am looking at A LOT of speakers:
Axiom: M80s
AV123 Rocket: RS850
Boston Acoustics: VS 336
Emotiva: ERT-8.3
Energy Speakers: CF-70
Infinity: C336
KEF: iQ90
KEF: XQ40
Klipsch: WF-40
Monitor Audio: RS8
Monitor Audio: BR6
Pinnacle Speakers: BD 2000
Polk Audio*: TSi500
ProAc Speakers: TriTower
RBH Sound: RBH MC-6CT

So, as you can see I have no idea how to narrow down which of these speakers are better than others. All I did was go on every audio company site I could think of, and see what speakers are in my price range.

I am planning to spend about $2000 for speakers and $1000 on an Amp.

I am going to be living in an apartment

I still think that's a bit too much for the amp. I would do 2500 for the speakers and 500 for the amp on that budget. at 500 you could get a lot of very good midfi receivers. Then hook up a very nice 2500 system.

If this is for home theater then spend 1250 on the subs. Which means spend 625 per sub. or go with a great 1 sub option.

then get 5 matching speakers for 200 each.

Now you have your budget.

Subs are very important and shouldn't be under bought.

If you DIY on your budget you could have a very nice system.

 

[no. 5]

Measurements by 3rd parties are great, but many of the 3rd party reviewers are in the tank for certain speaker companies as well.

Unfortunate, as it's all we have access to when it comes to loudspeaker performance. If a person had the ability to make good acoustical and electrical measurements, and retailers had lenient return policies, finding the perfect speaker would be easy.
Fortunately, measurements found in reviews are usually unbiased, even of the reviews aren't.

Manufacturing tolerances and quality control are another thing; prototype or review sample may be wonderful, but the one you pick up in a store may not be so great if the tolerances and QC are loose.

You can get a good feel of a speaker with their sensitivity rating.

You can get an idea, yes, but that number tells nothing of the speakers electrical properties, and those properties are what will affect the audible performance, as it relates to the amplifier's capabilities.

Low frequency extension is another spec that is important. the lower the # the better the overall bass response.

I absolutely agree, but there too, measurements come in handy, otherwise how does one know how the number specified affects what is heard; is that 48Hz the -3dB point? -10dB? -'X'dB from what? And so on.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
Companies that use ports in their speakers typically have a bit more drawn out, deeper bass as well which I personally like whereas speakers that are fully sealed have tighter more precise bass and mid range response, but you give up a bit of volume as well and more power needs to be driven to non ported speakers.
...

May want to check this out, especially #4
http://www.audiopulse.com/know-how/subwoofer-driver-guide/myths-about-subwoofers/

 

[johnrmarty]

Hey Arcane 19,

That is a lot of speakers to narrow down Honestly you will be happy with a lot of different combos, but listening to as much as you can will narrow things down a bit more. I am only really familiar with Kef, Definitive Technology, Paradigm, and Monitor Audio. A couple weeks ago the monitor Audio distributor came in to try and persuade us to carry them so we tested out the Gold series GS10's (about a $1300 bookshelf) vs the Kef QX10's ($1500), vs the Definitive Studio Monitor 350's (about $600), vs the Kef IQ10's ($450). I know this is not a "tower speaker" demo, but I want to try and illustrate my thoughts. When listening to the $450 Kef's compared to the Monitor Audio Gold series $1300 set or the Definitive $600 bookshelfs the monitors had no chance in my opinion...it was actually amazing because I would have expected much more out of Monitor Audio. Many speaker lines have difficulty determining the fine balance between giving a speaker a great exterior finish quality and great sound quality and I think Monitor did just that (opinion) .Between Kef and Definitive The Kef speakers both XQ and IQ are a bit sharper ( which some people may or may not like) but it allows them to pickup even finer detail than the Definitives in my opinion. One example was a musician strumming a guitar slowly and you could actually hear the finger sliding off the strings as well as the palm moving acroos the wood. The Kef family is an incredible lineup that does a great job in the two channel world especially with a nice $1000 amp. We do have a pair of QX40's and IQ90's on display and they are quite similar at 1st listen. You actually have to take some time to demo some good cuts to tell the difference between the two. The XQ40's have a much stronger cabinet which caters to a more refined bass response. Also the mid range response on the XQ40's is noticeably better after you go back and forth a number of times. Oh and the finish quality on the XQ line is arguably one of the best I have seen....

I know a lot of people love axiom and AV123, but I have never had the pleasure to listen to them. What I can comment on is the fact that they are factory direct only. In many cases this makes a difference because most traditional speaker companies use distributors which jacks up the prices an additional 10%-20%

Most people buy a good set of speakers once every 7-10 years so spend a little more now and look at this purchase as an investment.

Hopefully this helps

 

[Arcane19]

Ok thanks guys for all of your help, this community is the greatest.

After finally listening to speakers during the last week, here is the setup I have chosen.
Onkyo TX-SR706: ~ $900
Fronts: Swans Diva 6.2: ~ $1000
Sub: Polk PSW125: ~ $350

The guy at the speaker store powered the speakers with the TX-NR906 which will completely set me off my budget, so I think I am going down to the SR706 model, and still have more than enough power for the speakers, not to mention that it is a solid receiver I can build off of in the future.