Pioneer to end all PDP production by March 2009?

R

rekced

Audioholic
That's freaking messed up. Who would Panasonic have to compete with for high end TVs?
 
sawzalot

sawzalot

Audioholic Samurai
D

D-Jingle

Enthusiast
The collapse of Pioneer

Slowly slinking out of the market
 
ThA tRiXtA

ThA tRiXtA

Full Audioholic
So, here's my dilemma...

I live in Canada, and the Canadian prices are insane compared to the US prices, and no one will even come close to price matching either.

If I were to buy the 6020 here, it would be just about $8500 with taxes and a 4 year extended warranty. The 151 elite would be over 10 grand. :eek:

For some reason Canadian retailers will not budge off CDN MSRP.

So, I have been looking at the 6020FD in US costco stores. I could drive 4 hours down to the costco in Colchester, Vermont and buy one there for $3799 then bring it back home.

After exchange and taxes I would be looking at about $5300 Canadian, which is still a far cry from what it would cost me at home.

So, do you guys think it's feasible? How can I go about doing that? I'm not sure that I would be absolutely confident that the specific costco in Vermont would have stock of that TV, so when I got there I could have wasted a trip all the way there.

Any thoughts or opinions? I'm interested. Thanks
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
If you are in Ontario you can try one of those 2001 audio/video stores. Some, but not all of them will work with you. About a month ago, I was able to negotiate the price for the 5020 down to around C$2650. I did not buy it. The 6020 is listed only C$2700 more so I would expect its discounted price to be no more than C$5000 before tax.

Prices for the Elites are typically comparable to amazon.com's, but again, that's in Ontario. Lastly, please note that in Canada you get 3 years warranty instead of the 2 years offered in the U.S.
 
ThA tRiXtA

ThA tRiXtA

Full Audioholic
Hey Peng,

Thanks for the reply! I checked out those stores you mentioned but they don't seem to carry the 60 inch models... have you seen them carry it before?

Specifically regarding the warranty, do you mean that there is a 3 year warrantly on the elite models in Canada, or the 5020/6020 as well?

Good to know, thanks again.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Hey Peng,

Thanks for the reply! I checked out those stores you mentioned but they don't seem to carry the 60 inch models... have you seen them carry it before?

Specifically regarding the warranty, do you mean that there is a 3 year warrantly on the elite models in Canada, or the 5020/6020 as well?

Good to know, thanks again.
Not that long ago Best Buy on Dundas (near the Dundas/Winston Churchchill intersection), the 2001 audio/Video near the Dundas and Trafagar intersection and the Burlington Future Shop have the 60" Kuro on display.

In fact, Bestbuy.ca actually has it on sale now for C$5335 so if you can find a store that has it in stock you are in luck.

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926HDS0010106344&catid=23249

Or you can negotiate the price down much further if you can find one in Future Shop. Some Future Shop sales rep will work with you aggressively by discounting hundreds of dollars but not Best Buy.

Regarding the 3 year warranty, I am not sure about the Kuro PDP but the Elite for sure. You can call Pioneer customer support and find out for yourself, but when you do please let us know the answer.

If you are in Ontario, I know at least two dealers had (may still do) offered very competitive prices just before and shortly after Christmas. Try Fairview HiFi in Burlington or East Hamilton Radio in Hamilton. I could have picked up the Pro-101FD monitor for C$3999 with a stand when it was listed for $4799. It is now listed for C$4999 because of the higher Yen. I hope this help, best of luck in your search.
 
F

flatpanelwisher

Audiophyte
So Now Who Is Top Dog?

So I bought the Kuro this past weekend after months of research. I told the Best Buy guy I'd come back next day to pick it up. That evening I change my mind and decided to upgrade to the Elite. I check Home Thearter Mag one more time to read up on it and that's when I first saw the news about Pioneer getting out. :mad::mad::mad: Needless to say, I did go back to Best Buy the next day, only, to get my refund.

So now the question beckons - who is top dog now? Which set are all future reviews going to compare to?
 
ThA tRiXtA

ThA tRiXtA

Full Audioholic
Hey Peng,

I am in Ottawa, and I have been to both Best Buy and Futureshop. I saw the deal at BB (thanks for the heads up though) but have to go back to BB tomorrow night because the guy I know there isn't in til Friday.

So I went to Futureshop too, it was funny because FS knew nothing of the Pio dropout until I told them a few weeks ago. Long story short I told the sales guy there i want to buy a 6020 and he goes "Oh I'll cut you a good deal!" So he hums and haws and comes back to me and goes "OK, if you buy an extended warranty, I can sell you a 6020 for $5499!"

I just shook my head. $5500 is BB's list price, but futureshop's list price is $6499. Quite the deal, huh? Oh, and guess how much the extended warranty costs at FS? $999 for 4 years of extra warranty.

So yeah, he cut the price down $1000, but just added $1k back in via the warranty. Pretty lame, IMO... so I just went home.

A week or two later I went back to FS and talked to the same guy. I told him I am still interested in the 6020 and I could drive a few hours across the US border and pick up a 6020 for about $5500 CDN tax in... but admittedly I'd rather buy local than go through the hassle of driving there and back and bringing the TV through the border. But at least I had a little bargaining power on my side this time.

So then he changed his tune a little, he said he could go about $5k, but at that price he'd also have to sell me an extended warranty too to negate the lower price of the TV itself. By the time you factor in the TV, the warranty, the taxes it's still going to cost 7 friggin grand. I understand these are cream of the crop units but 7k? Come on.

I don't know why, but it seems like no one wants to budge on the list prices here in Ottawa really.

What makes you say that BB will not deal, but FS will? I was kind of hoping that BB will cut me a little slack, I'm going to go there tomorrow night and talk to a sales guy I know, but I'm not holding my breath that's for sure.

When I first saw that BB was running the 6020 on sale, I called my contact at best buy to see if he had any stock. He said he didn't but he has 6 on order coming in in the next couple weeks and he would hold one for me. Then I asked if he would still honor that sale price when they come in and he said "ya, no problem, it's not really much of a sale, only $165 off so I can keep that price."

Which then got me thinking, he's right, it isn't much of a sale at $165 off the list price.

Maybe I'm crazy and expecting too much, but when you say aggressively discount the price, what exactly do you mean by that and how confident are you of that statement? I'm getting no play here whatsoever. Mostly just looking to see if I am in the wrong and expecting too much maybe? In your opinion, what would you consider a reasonable price for the 6020?

If it means anything, during boxing day FS and BB had the 6020 on sale for $4899 CDN.

Anyways, if things don't work out tomorrow night at BB, I guess I'll just hold on to my money for a while and go back in the summer and try and swoop up a deal on a 6020 then, if there are any still around. Failing that, I guess I am looking at the 58 or 65 inch PZ850 Panasonic.

Do we have any notion the prices are going to stay where they are, or will they drop in the near future due to these sets being discontinued?

I have never seen a discontinued product not get clearance priced, but this may be the first.

Regarding the warranty on the non elite Kuro's: I am fairly confident in stating that the manufacturer's warranty is one year and the elites are two years, although I will dig deeper and post back with the results.

@ Flatpanelwisher:

I respectfully think you're making a mistake on jumping ship on that Elite. Current PDP's on the market can't touch the performance of the 5020/6020 models, let alone the elite versions.

If you have the money now, you had the set on it's way to you, I think you'll be waiting a long long time before you see Panasonic, LG, Samsung or whoever is left that will make a plasma that will trump the pure performance that is delivered by a Kuro Elite.

I'm not quite sure as to why you immediately washed your hands of the elite you bought, but if you had an extended warranty, I don't think any troubles were on your horizon... from what I understand (and correct me if I am mistaken) Pioneer has to stock parts to be able to repair these sets for a certain number of years as per US law. Again, this is just something I read after the fallout of this whole mess.

At any rate, again, I think you should reconsider that Elite if you are not willing to lower your expectations on PQ. Good luck.
 
Last edited:
Hipnotic4

Hipnotic4

Full Audioholic
your going to be waiting a long time for that 6020 to drop **drasticly, in local stores...
 
ThA tRiXtA

ThA tRiXtA

Full Audioholic
I can understand not seeing a drastic drop, I'm nit asking them to give me the TV for free on a silver platter, but no one will even stray from MSRP really. Guess I just have to bite the bullet, huh?
 
Hipnotic4

Hipnotic4

Full Audioholic
Yea you just might have to..but you waited long enough, im sure your willing to wait a few more weeks..march is around the corner, new panasonics should be popping up..new everything really...

The cycle of whats new, hot and better..will soon start...verrryy soon..
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
What makes you say that BB will not deal, but FS will? I was kind of hoping that BB will cut me a little slack, I'm going to go there tomorrow night and talk to a sales guy I know, but I'm not holding my breath that's for sure.
I only found out about a year ago that in some FS, and only some sales rep there would actually offer deep discounts on items that are not on sales or on small sales. I said so because I had actualy experienced it. After that I thought may be BB would do the same. Well I have since tried several BB and none would negotiate. When I told them FS would, the answer was "they are on commission but we are not".

Maybe I'm crazy and expecting too much, but when you say aggressively discount the price, what exactly do you mean by that and how confident are you of that statement? I'm getting no play here whatsoever. Mostly just looking to see if I am in the wrong and expecting too much maybe? In your opinion, what would you consider a reasonable price for the 6020?
I cannot comment on the 6020 because I have never considered it. I can tell you just before and after Christmas I was able to buy the 5020 for $2650 (no need to buy any extended warranty) when it was listed for $3499 so that should give you some idea. That was 2001 Audio Video. FS actually had it on sale (online) for 2499 for a few days and then 2599 for some time but of course quickly declared "out of stock".

If it means anything, during boxing day FS and BB had the 6020 on sale for $4899 CDN.
Again, I did not pay attention to the 60" so I missed that opportunity, but in that case I would not pay any more than $5299 for the 6020 right now, and I mean a clean sale of the TV without any extended warranty BS.

Failing that, I guess I am looking at the 58 or 65 inch PZ850 Panasonic.
I almost did the same but I could not live with the Panny's dark gray after seeing the Elite's (or Kuro) deep black. So be careful, you may want to just bite the bullet, get the Elite or Kuro and be done with it.

I have never seen a discontinued product not get clearance priced, but this may be the first.
I think there is a good chance you may be right about this.

Regarding the warranty on the non elite Kuro's: I am fairly confident in stating that the manufacturer's warranty is one year and the elites are two years, although I will dig deeper and post back with the results.
I am more than confident because:

1. The dealer told me so.
2. My warranty card says 3 years.
3. I phone Pioneeer and was told the same.

I only have the Pro-111 FD but I can't see how it would be different for the 151 FD. However, that is the only reason why I asked you to phone Pioneer and find out for yourself. If you were asking about the 50" I would have told you it was a 3 year warranty for sure.

Once again, best of luck in your search, and please be patient, shop around and you will save hundred of dollars.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I can understand not seeing a drastic drop, I'm nit asking them to give me the TV for free on a silver platter, but no one will even stray from MSRP really. Guess I just have to bite the bullet, huh?
Bite the bullet and get the Elite or Kuro but only if you manage to get at least 15% discount off the list price. BB's current sales price seems reasonable so if they don't have it in your favorite location as long as you can locate one somewhere else you can get a nearby FS to price match or better. If all else fails, Toronto and Mississauga is only a 5 hours drive.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I can understand not seeing a drastic drop, I'm nit asking them to give me the TV for free on a silver platter, but no one will even stray from MSRP really. Guess I just have to bite the bullet, huh?
Bite the bullet and get the Elite or Kuro but only if you manage to get at least 15% discount off the list price. BB's current sales price seems reasonable so if they don't have it in your favorite location as long as you can locate one somewhere else you can get a nearby FS to price match or better. Don't forget 2001 Audio Video also. If all else fails, Toronto and Mississauga is only a 5 hours drive.
 
J

Jack Jones

Audiophyte
lower...lower.....lower....lower

your going to be waiting a long time for that 6020 to drop **drasticly, in local stores...
Just like the stock market, my guess is that Pioneer panels will be dropping through the floor in price in the coming weeks. Best Buy will be getting substantial inventriy in early March. Pioneer's fiscal year ends March 31 and given their recent announcement to get out of the TV business and their troubling financials, you can count on them "to clear the factories and the warehouses" to raise cash. They eliminated their 200mile geographic restrictions on their dealers and added tons more on-line retailers to clear out the inventory.

They have adandoned their "elite" dealership network and essentially opened the retailer network to just about anyone. Expect to see Pioneer panels in all sorts of channels in March as they try to raise cash before the end of their fiscal year.

My guess is that 151s will be available for around $3500, 6020s @ $2900, 111s for $2200 and 5020s for $1500 or LOWER (all of these plus shipping). Laugh if you want but those are my guesses.

Currently you can get a 151 for $3999 + shipping, 6020s for $3400, 111s for $2600 and 5020s for $1700 so its really not that far to even fall. Pioneer needs the cash in the bank by the end of march and as low an inventory on panels as they can get in order to have the best report for the end of their fiscal year.

Combine Pio's desparate situation with the cratered economy and you have a rare event that will make the best display available for a song and a dance for those in the market. Patience will pay off big in savings.
 
ThA tRiXtA

ThA tRiXtA

Full Audioholic
Well, I bit the bullet, but I fared out all right, in my opinion of course.

I picked up a 6020FD with a 4 year warranty and a Sanus wall mount for $6296 CDN, all in.

The price break down of the specific components are as follows:

6020: $4319.99 (not bad!!)

Sanus wall mount: $250

4 year warranty: $999 (yucky price, but they wouldn't deal on the TV unless I bought a warranty... it's ok I guess, I got 4 years of worry free viewing from it...)

Add in about $750 worth of tax and we're sitting at $6296.32. Oh, and they threw in white glove delivery. Sweet.

Can't wait for next Friday!! I am going to take some pics of all my new gear and post them in my dedicated room thread at the end of next week!

Oh, and I hope Jack Jones is not correct in his predictions. It will be interesting to see how things turn out with the remaining Kuro's prices. I don't know if they have all the inventory you say they do... they only had 3 remaining 6020's in all of eastern Canada, and I bought one of them.

Edit: Jack, where can you find a pro-151fd for $3999? Thanks.
 
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