Emotiva & Audioholics, mutual admiration society?

[egreen1976]

Exactly

Yes, there are other sites, but your search isn't quite what you indicate. You gotta read closer.

First link - Emotivas site. Makes sense.
Second link - review from 2005.
Third link - hometheaterhifi review from early 2006.
Fourth link - Audioholics.
Fifth link - AudioReview customer reviews. Not many there.
Sixth link - Ecoustics link to Audioholics review
Seventh link - AVS forum posting (edited by Clint), with link to Audioholics review
Eight link - link to hometheaterhifi review from mid 2007.

So out of eight links, there's the manufacturer's site, reviews from two other sites from a little while ago, about ten customer reviews, and three links to AH.

I don't know how it is nowadays because I'm never buying from them again and don't care to research it, but when I was trying to find info on Emotiva in 2007, the vast majority of info or reviews (at least, any recent stuff at the time) was here. So, I understand the question because I went through it myself.

EDIT: Wow, jinjuku - you are a quick reader! You read my other post before I took it down to change it. Nice addition of other images.

this is exactly my point... the truth is there is not a bunch of emotiva reviews elsewhere. I did not say there were none. But the truth is that anyone doing research on emotiva will start seeing the same familiar review and reviewers posting on multiple sites.

Now do your same google search for some other brands, even internet brands. I found a ton more diverse info on Outlaw's products. Furthermore there are some major AV forums where u would be hard pressed to find a single mention of emotiva.

 

[egreen1976]

more

to further illustrate the point here is the link to Emotiva's review section on it's site

http://emotiva.com/reviews.shtm

When people see this it does seem that audioholics has the vast majority of emotiva reviews, etc... I am sure when you click accolades, we can all guess where the majority come from.

THIS THOUGH SAYS NOTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT EMOTIVA OR AUDIOHOLICS, it's just a situation that I have heard make buyers uncomfortable.

 

[jinjuku]

First link - Emotivas site. Makes sense.
Second link - review from 2005.
Third link - hometheaterhifi review from early 2006.
Fourth link - Audioholics.
Fifth link - AudioReview customer reviews. Not many there.
Sixth link - Ecoustics link to Audioholics review
Seventh link - AVS forum posting (edited by Clint), with link to Audioholics review
Eight link - link to hometheaterhifi review from mid 2007.

So out of eight links, there's the manufacturer's site, reviews from two other sites from a little while ago, about ten customer reviews, and three links to AH.

So two other non-ah reviews plus ten customer reviews. I guess I am really missing the point.

I would think that a good review from 2005 and another good review from 2007 says something significant about Emotiva. That they, from year to year to year, produce consistent quality product.

Guys, I don't even OWN Emotiva. I am not a fanboy in any sense. But the OP has generated a disequilibrium that simply isn't born out by the fact that someone can easily find reviews of the Emotiva product w/o looking hard.

If you can't find other reviews by either customers or other sites you are either lazy or stupid. Sorry to be harsh but it isn't rocket science to hit google, and then drill down from there. It just isn't.

 

[egreen1976]

There is nothing inherently special about Emotiva amplifier designs when compared to high output amps from their competitors. In fact, I am not a fan of series-parallel caps in the power supply that they do in many of their amps but I understand why they do it and they do execute very well.

What does make Emo special is their uncommon value that nobody on the market can seem to touch right now. After I reviewed the XPA-2, you would be surprised to know how many competitor manufacturers called me asking for the secret of how Emo is manufacturing amps so cheaply. Considering that these type of threads seem to keep popping up here and on AVS Forum, that is why some (including myself) often think its a competitor manufacturer / publication / troll trying to stir up the pot and/or discredit either us or Emotiva.

so the real question is how does Emotiva deliver such a value that others can not emulate. Eliminating middle men has to be a SURE cost reducer. I can't imagine they get cheaper componenets or build cost than bigger manufacturers. I've always believed that the management at Emotiva just isn't into gouging the public, Like many other manufacturers.

Interestingly in this tough economic climate I have had a few normal dealers offering %30-%40 off retail on many high end names. Which says to me that there mark up is probably considerable. Does anyone know the average dealer mark up on say a NAD or Rotel amp.

 

[jinjuku]

this is exactly my point... the truth is there is not a bunch of emotiva reviews elsewhere. I did not say there were none. But the truth is that anyone doing research on emotiva will start seeing the same familiar review and reviewers posting on multiple sites.

I am at a loss for words:

hometheaterhifi.com; hometheatershack.com, avsforum.com, polkaudio.com.

They all have plenty of good word on the Emotiva product. I am not sure what your real goal is here...

 

[Adam]

They all have plenty of good word on the Emotiva product. I am not sure what your real goal is here...

It could be that the OP isn't looking hard enough, or that you aren't. The OP's point is that the more you look into it, the more you see the same reviewers and same info.

I'm not arguing that the OP is correct. You could be entirely correct. I don't know the current state of things on this. I just know that is what I ran into about a year and a half ago. Yes, yes - I can Google, and I did. Googled like a mad man and read a bunch. Yeah, sure - this could all be way off base these days, but I'm not going to assume that it is because I can hit Google and find other sites - that's the same as when I looked back in 2007.

Besides, I don't think that the OP has been a member for over four years, patiently waiting for the proper time to troll it up.

I wasn't trying to start an argument - just adding my experience from when I was shopping.

 

[jinjuku]

It could be that the OP isn't looking hard enough, or that you aren't. The OP's point is that the more you look into it, the more you see the same reviewers and same info.

I'm not arguing that the OP is correct. You could be entirely correct. I don't know the current state of things on this. I just know that is what I ran into about a year and a half ago. Yes, yes - I can Google, and I did. Googled like a mad man and read a bunch. Yeah, sure - this could all be way off base these days, but I'm not going to assume that it is because I can hit Google and find other sites - that's the same as when I looked back in 2007.

Besides, I don't think that the OP has been a member for over four years, patiently waiting for the proper time to troll it up.

I wasn't trying to start an argument - just adding my experience from when I was shopping.

I understand what you are saying Adam. BUT the context is COMPLETELY different right now. We are talking about 2009, not 2007.

I am reading a Polkaudio forum thread about EMO vs Adcom. They are really liking the EMO product better. I think the OP has done a very poor job of due diligence.

 

[Rickster71]

to further illustrate the point here is the link to Emotiva's review section on it's site

http://emotiva.com/reviews.shtm

When people see this it does seem that audioholics has the vast majority of emotiva reviews, etc... I am sure when you click accolades, we can all guess where the majority come from.
it's just a situation that I have heard make buyers uncomfortable.

It's like you're searching for a guarantee that Emotiva is good or bad.
I don't know that much in life comes with a guarantee.

How about calling or emailing Emotiva? http://www.emotiva.com/support.shtm

I can tell that they will talk to you, and are very friendly.
Ask them why the aren't reviewed in more audio magazines?

I wonder, if one site or magazine can be paid to write a good review; can't they all?
To what end, this guarantee?
Circulus in probando?

 

[Rickster71]

so the real question is how does Emotiva deliver such a value that others can not emulate. Eliminating middle men has to be a SURE cost reducer. I can't imagine they get cheaper componenets or build cost than bigger manufacturers.

Sounds like you didn't read or understand my post #14 at all

 

[Adam]

Circulus in probando?

You and your fancy words. Thanks, man. I got to learn something new.

 

[Matt34]

Not including Audioholics or AVSforum links.

Search word "Emotiva" :

Polk Audio Forum
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/search.php?searchid=3828996

Hometheatershack.com
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/search.php?searchid=269915&photoplog_searchinfo=1&photoplog_searchquery=emotiva

AscendAcoustics.com
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/search.php?searchid=237312

AV123forums.com
http://av123forum.com/search.php?searchid=1689956

Axiom
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php

Hometheaterforum.com
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/search.php?searchid=1068519

Klipschforums.com
http://forums.klipsch.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?q=Emotiva&o=Relevance

htguide.com
http://www.htguide.com/forum/search.php4?searchid=1107491

forums-bluray.com
http://forum.blu-ray.com/search.php?searchid=1308389

avrevforum.com
http://www.avrevforum.com/amplifiers-mono-stereo-multi-channel/2669-outlaw.html


Professional reviews (not including Audioholics.com):

ultimateavmag
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/surroundsoundpreampprocessors/805emo/

hometheaterhifi
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_1/emotiva-dmc1-ssp-mps1-amp-3-2006-part-1.html

dailyaudiophile
http://www.dailyaudiophile.com/emotiva-amp-review-secrets/

Another hometheaterhifi
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/amplifier-reviews/power-amplifier/emotiva-xpa-1-monoblock-power-amplifier.html

AffordableAudio
http://www.affordableaudio.org/EmotivaXPA2.pdf

soundstageav
http://www.soundstageav.com/onhometheater/20050601.html

hometheaterspot
http://www.hometheaterspot.com/fusionbb/dosearch.php

 

[Adam]

Matt,

First - thanks for that list of links! That took some time to type that all out.

Second - unfortunately, some of them aren't working for me. The AV123 forum one comes up as an empty search, and one of the pro reviews said that I didn't have access. I didn't check them all, but it's just a heads up that some aren't going where you'd want them to.

Adam

 

[gene]

so the real question is how does Emotiva deliver such a value that others can not emulate. Eliminating middle men has to be a SURE cost reducer. I can't imagine they get cheaper componenets or build cost than bigger manufacturers. I've always believed that the management at Emotiva just isn't into gouging the public, Like many other manufacturers.

Interestingly in this tough economic climate I have had a few normal dealers offering %30-%40 off retail on many high end names. Which says to me that there mark up is probably considerable. Does anyone know the average dealer mark up on say a NAD or Rotel amp.

B/c unlike many other companies, Emotiva manufacturers their own amps as well as manufacturing amps for many of the more prestigious brands. That's a huge advantage when you've got the means to do so. In addition, their margins are less than most as they are more of a volume seller than the non internet direct companies.

to further illustrate the point here is the link to Emotiva's review section on it's site

http://emotiva.com/reviews.shtm

When people see this it does seem that audioholics has the vast majority of emotiva reviews, etc... I am sure when you click accolades, we can all guess where the majority come from.

THIS THOUGH SAYS NOTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT EMOTIVA OR AUDIOHOLICS, it's just a situation that I have heard make buyers uncomfortable.

The guys are Emotiva aren't stupid. They know Audioholics has the largest readership online or in print as far as home theater magazines go. Thus we typically get the first samples, especially since I've helped them beta test products before. The same applies with Yamaha, Denon and other companies that really get it. Our closest competitor online has less than 1/4th of our traffic and they don't do any objective measurements or analysis in their reviews.

 

[jinjuku]

Thanks Matt. I just absolutely hate it when someone hits a board like this and said what they said.

Instead of saying: Hey, I can't find more information than X. Am I doing something wrong? They ASSUME. That burns me big time.

I just love debunking one idiotic notion after the next.

 

[Rickster71]

You and your fancy words. Thanks, man. I got to learn something new.

So all that time in philosophy class wasn't wasted?
I knew it was good for something.

 

[Matt34]

Matt,

First - thanks for that list of links! That took some time to type that all out.

Second - unfortunately, some of them aren't working for me. The AV123 forum one comes up as an empty search, and one of the pro reviews said that I didn't have access. I didn't check them all, but it's just a heads up that some aren't going where you'd want them to.

Adam

I think you have to register for some of them to work, I know you do on the av123 site. Which pro review didn't work?

 

[Adam]

I knew it was good for something.

Yep, three points.

Philosophy, IMO, is very worthwhile. People need to step out of the daily grind and think about things on a level beyond, "should I have another cup of coffee." Of course, that's all that I'm thinking about right now...

-------------

Back to the Emotiva topic, whether there is other press or not (which there now appears to be a decent amount) to help do research, they do allow returns. So, someone is liable for shipping (which could run $50-$100 because of the weight of these products), but nothing else. My advice is this, though - if you have a problem with a product and they haven't resolved it within the return window, send it back. Given that approach, you are only taking a risk on the shipping, and you might be very happy with the product given the price.

 

[Adam]

I think you have to register for some of them to work, I know you do on the av123 site. Which pro review didn't work?

Gotcha. The pro review is a PDF file that the server won't let me access.

AffordableAudio
http://www.affordableaudio.org/EmotivaXPA2.pdf

 

[jinjuku]

Here is my question: What does EMO do with the amps traded in for upgrade?

 

[Adam]

Here is my question: What does EMO do with the amps traded in for upgrade?

They have an upgrade program on their amps? Forgive me - I did look at their site before asking! I just didn't see that, nor have I heard of it. Would you be able to provide a link to that so that I can read about it? Thanks!

My guess would be that they put the returned amps on their b-stock listing. Just a guess, though.