Little help on a new subwoofer

[Shintsu]

After discovering my Energy AS-180 is going to require repairs I'd rather not hassle with, I am looking to buy a replacement subwoofer. Unlike some ridiculously rich people on here who sneeze $500 for a subwoofer, I'm a college student on a budget and I can't afford much. I'm not going to spend more than $250 on a sub but even that is a high estimate for me.

I took a stop by the AH store and saw the Dayton SUB-120 12" sub for $150. Now someone please educate me on Dayton - I know nothing of these guys and have only heard of them since joining these forums. From what little I know, they strike me as more of a cheap kind of low-end brand but I do see they have some rather nice looking plate amps for sale at PE. So, this is one consideration since I'd like to keep a 12" and some decent wattage and this has both. I'm a bit leery since it only has a $219 list price about how good it really is, but I wouldn't not consider it for that reason.

I was checking around and located a used Infinity BU-2 for $100 + $30 shipping. That is also a current consideration. Lastly, I have considered the Polk PSW10 for $100 + free shipping. Wattage isn't the greatest but I've been pleased by the performance of my Logitech Z-5500 10" subwoofer in this same room so I imagine the Polk will be more of the same, if not better.

I highly disprefer a DIY subwoofer, really more than I'd care to do. I have seen a few that almost appear to need nothing more than to be simply bolted in and hooked up which I might do, but nothing more involving than that. This subwoofer is going in a roughly 10 x 8 x 8 room and I would like to produce quality low bass. This is something I am rather pleased with on the Energy aside from it's constant hum at higher levels.

Does anyone have something they'd recommend? I've pretty much ruled out any 8" sub in this price range as well as all those odd slim and narrow subs - I have plenty of room and don't need a space saving sub nor do I believe a small design will produce any kind of quality bass. I wouldn't mind buying something such as the PSW10 as a temporary subwoofer until I can afford a larger nicer 12". I do not want to hear "just don't buy a sub" - that is not in my consideration so I'd appreciate it if such comments were kept to yourself.

 

[Midcow2]

The Dayton SUB-120 is a good choice.

The Dayton SUB-120 12" sub for $150 is recommended a lot on the Audioholic forums for an inexpensive yet good sub.

The next step up subs SVS and Hsu start at over your budget, so the Dayton is a great choice for your budget


Good Luck!

MidCow2

 

[alexwakelin]

The dayton is the best sub for the budget you have to work with. They are able to sell them so cheap because they cut out the middle man.

 

[adwilk]

I'd go with the Dayton... Its a great sub for the money, will match mass-market commercial offerings at 2-3 times the price easy...

The other option would be to get two polks, but this wont make them go any lower and might add 3db. The dayton still wins...

 

[Shintsu]

The only thing I'm noticing is a rather large amount of people commenting that the Dayton is boomy. I'm looking for a sub that is tight and accurate, I believe in my relatively untrained ears that my Logitech sub is somewhat boomy and while it's good for games and stuff, I don't think it really would do so well for musical accuracy.

So my question, since I already have a good driver in my Energy AS-180 - would swapping it with the Dayton's 12" be any better? The only difference is the AS-180 is being fed 180 watts RMS whereas I have no idea what the Dayton is (It's only 150 w peak). I am noticing this boomy comment from everyone in regards to music which I planned to experiment with. It appears the Dayton will be a movie/game only sub which I suppose I could live with but I rather like the idea of a sub for some types of music I listen to (Hey, I'm a technohead what can I say).

I am beginning to become torn with my budget and my tastes. My wallet says don't spend more, but to be honest I could go a little higher I just really don't want to. My friend claims I can get my Energy sub repaired for $25 estimate + repair costs (although the estimate goes towards repairs). The only thing I think won't be fixable is the pop when I turn it off unless I put a new plate amp in it (not cheap). Consider that I am factoring selling my Energy in this current equation for $100.

I see lots of reviewers who are amazed with the Dayton for the money, but I have heard complaints of the super flimsy build quality (pressed cardboard, made in china amp). It's very confusing, as I'm hearing praise for it as a home theater sub but not so much in a musical manner. In this regard, wouldn't the Polk be a little tighter? I would imagine it won't go as low but it would be a rather tight sub with adequate bass for home theater.

I'm not sold off the Dayton btw, just asking some questions to determine what works best for me.

EDIT: I have also seen PE has the Dayton ES8 for $159. I'm normally really against an 8" but I've heard some rather praise the Dayton Elites over the regular series. What can you all say in regard to them?

 

[corey]

Take your time, watch your local craigslist.

 

[Midcow2]

Getting rid of Boomy is $$$ , Buy Dayton 12 and save for upgrade

The only thing I'm noticing is a rather large amount of people commenting that the Dayton is boomy. I'm looking for a sub that is tight and accurate, I believe in my relatively untrained ears that my Logitech sub is somewhat boomy and while it's good for games and stuff, I don't think it really would do so well for musical accuracy.

So my question, since I already have a good driver in my Energy AS-180 - would swapping it with the Dayton's 12" be any better? The only difference is the AS-180 is being fed 180 watts RMS whereas I have no idea what the Dayton is (It's only 150 w peak). I am noticing this boomy comment from everyone in regards to music which I planned to experiment with. It appears the Dayton will be a movie/game only sub which I suppose I could live with but I rather like the idea of a sub for some types of music I listen to (Hey, I'm a technohead what can I say).

I am beginning to become torn with my budget and my tastes. My wallet says don't spend more, but to be honest I could go a little higher I just really don't want to. My friend claims I can get my Energy sub repaired for $25 estimate + repair costs (although the estimate goes towards repairs). The only thing I think won't be fixable is the pop when I turn it off unless I put a new plate amp in it (not cheap). Consider that I am factoring selling my Energy in this current equation for $100.

I see lots of reviewers who are amazed with the Dayton for the money, but I have heard complaints of the super flimsy build quality (pressed cardboard, made in china amp). It's very confusing, as I'm hearing praise for it as a home theater sub but not so much in a musical manner. In this regard, wouldn't the Polk be a little tighter? I would imagine it won't go as low but it would be a rather tight sub with adequate bass for home theater.

I'm not sold off the Dayton btw, just asking some questions to determine what works best for me.

EDIT: I have also seen PE has the Dayton ES8 for $159. I'm normally really against an 8" but I've heard some rather praise the Dayton Elites over the regular series. What can you all say in regard to them?

For the price you can't beat the Dayton and boominess is relative; how loud are you trying to play the sub ? ( I can make the 7002 sound boomy if I turn the built in sub up to max and try to overdrive the speaker). To get rid of it you are going to need to buy a much more expensive sub, such as an SVS which start at $429, PB10-NSD , which is an excellent 10" sub. I don't think you are going to be happy with an 8" Dayton ES8 sub, you really need a minumum of 10" and preferred 12 or 13 " to produce tight non-boomy lower bass frequencies. if you are a connoisseur of bass, which you seem to indicate , Get the Dayton 120 and save up for a replacement as a future upgrade. Most inexpensive subs, sound like cheap boomy subs, expecially when driven at maximum; the Dayton 120 is as close to an exception as close as you are going to get unless you are willing to spend at least 3x as much or are really good at building a DIY sub.

Good Luck!

MidCow2


P.S.- I got rid of all my boominess with the PB12-Plus

P.S.S- A second alternative is to buy two Dayton 120 subs and slightly turn down the volume of each !

 

[TLS Guy]

Velodyne

This sub, a 2002 Velodyne 12" servo sub, I think fits the description of what you are looking for.

It is slightly above your price range, but close. I doubt you will be looking to replace it any time soon. At a buy it now price of $275, I doubt this item will hang around long. I think it is good value.

This certainly will not be a boomer.

By the way changing drivers will not work. The cabinet and porting are specific to the driver.

I was a poor student once, however I still avoided buying junk. I have some equipment I bought when I was a student, still be used regularly on my system now, after a half century. Now that is value.

 

[Shintsu]

The Velodyne looks nice, but after shipping that's $317. I haven't looked at much of them but I believe I've seen some reasonably nice new subs for that kind of money.

So far I believe my options are pretty much to wait out a pure luck chance of finding something on Craigslist or buy the Dayton and just deal with the boominess. I plan to place it in a corner and I've heard you have to be careful of it doubling up. Primary use is for gaming and movies, I guess I'll just work at it for music listening or just not use it for that. Or third even less likely option is find another Goodwill special for like $10. Hah, maybe I can hope I'm as lucky as my friend who found two McIntosh tube amps, a box of replacement tubes, two McIntosh tube preamps and the drivers for a Electrovoice Georgian speaker (About $1000 worth of speakers) - for $195 at a Goodwill! All of it for $195...Yeah, I'm jealous...And some idiot gave it all away to Goodwill!!!

 

[jostenmeat]

I'd go with TLS' rec. Servo controlled sealed is usually unheard of at that price.

However, with nearly anything you choose, you might have muddied bass if the space is not treated. The smaller the room, the more bass trapping is required.

Corner loading's main benefit is greater output efficiency. The idea is that if the sub doesn't have to work as hard, the distortion is lower, therefore you have better SQ.

OTOH, it's a small room, and this is not for bass-insane LFE tracks.

With corner loading, treatments become even more imperative, because this usually excites modes that are localizable. My personal rec would be not to corner load it, most particularly if you refuse to treat the space.

 

[Shintsu]

I don't really have much choice - the only place for it is in the corner. The best I can do is scoot it about 2 or 3 inches away from the wall on each side but I doubt that would make a big difference - it's still in the corner pretty much. I can't move it, otherwise my speakers will have a different convergence point where I would be unable to hear them. That said, how do I treat my room? Are we talking like hanging some weird looking padding on my wall or something else?

 

[lsiberian]

The only thing I'm noticing is a rather large amount of people commenting that the Dayton is boomy. I'm looking for a sub that is tight and accurate, I believe in my relatively untrained ears that my Logitech sub is somewhat boomy and while it's good for games and stuff, I don't think it really would do so well for musical accuracy.

So my question, since I already have a good driver in my Energy AS-180 - would swapping it with the Dayton's 12" be any better? The only difference is the AS-180 is being fed 180 watts RMS whereas I have no idea what the Dayton is (It's only 150 w peak). I am noticing this boomy comment from everyone in regards to music which I planned to experiment with. It appears the Dayton will be a movie/game only sub which I suppose I could live with but I rather like the idea of a sub for some types of music I listen to (Hey, I'm a technohead what can I say).

I am beginning to become torn with my budget and my tastes. My wallet says don't spend more, but to be honest I could go a little higher I just really don't want to. My friend claims I can get my Energy sub repaired for $25 estimate + repair costs (although the estimate goes towards repairs). The only thing I think won't be fixable is the pop when I turn it off unless I put a new plate amp in it (not cheap). Consider that I am factoring selling my Energy in this current equation for $100.

I see lots of reviewers who are amazed with the Dayton for the money, but I have heard complaints of the super flimsy build quality (pressed cardboard, made in china amp). It's very confusing, as I'm hearing praise for it as a home theater sub but not so much in a musical manner. In this regard, wouldn't the Polk be a little tighter? I would imagine it won't go as low but it would be a rather tight sub with adequate bass for home theater.

I'm not sold off the Dayton btw, just asking some questions to determine what works best for me.

EDIT: I have also seen PE has the Dayton ES8 for $159. I'm normally really against an 8" but I've heard some rather praise the Dayton Elites over the regular series. What can you all say in regard to them?

The Dayton subs are boomy if improperly placed. But if you do a crawl test you can easily eliminate this. I know I have one that's holding me over until my perfect builds are done.

 

[lsiberian]

I don't really have much choice - the only place for it is in the corner. The best I can do is scoot it about 2 or 3 inches away from the wall on each side but I doubt that would make a big difference - it's still in the corner pretty much. I can't move it, otherwise my speakers will have a different convergence point where I would be unable to hear them. That said, how do I treat my room? Are we talking like hanging some weird looking padding on my wall or something else?

2 or 3 inches makes a difference when it comes to the corner.

Treatments? lol They will cost you more than the sub.

 

[Shintsu]

Since we're talking about subwoofers, is there a good song or something I can play to test how tight my subwoofer's response is? Is there any particular way to listen to see if what you're hearing is boomy as opposed to tight? To me, bass sounds like bass but I can imagine tight bass being readily reactive. The best song that comes to mind to me would be something like this:

But it repeats bass too rapidly to me. It doesn't seem to let you pick out whether the sub is just rolling on or not (at least not to my untrained ears). Can anyone recommend something that would be good to bring this quality out of a subwoofer (or rather weakness if it is boomier than it is tight)?

 

[lsiberian]

This sub, a 2002 Velodyne 12" servo sub, I think fits the description of what you are looking for.

It is slightly above your price range, but close. I doubt you will be looking to replace it any time soon. At a buy it now price of $275, I doubt this item will hang around long. I think it is good value.

This certainly will not be a boomer.

By the way changing drivers will not work. The cabinet and porting are specific to the driver.

I was a poor student once, however I still avoided buying junk. I have some equipment I bought when I was a student, still be used regularly on my system now, after a half century. Now that is value.

That's a sick subwoofer for the price. Skip starbucks and eat PB&J for a couple of weeks and get that hehe. Also hit up the church places they have free meals. lol

 

[mnnc]

For the money...Dayton, although I have seen some 10in SVS's go used/mint for $200 or so.

 

[TLS Guy]

Since we're talking about subwoofers, is there a good song or something I can play to test how tight my subwoofer's response is? Is there any particular way to listen to see if what you're hearing is boomy as opposed to tight? To me, bass sounds like bass but I can imagine tight bass being readily reactive. The best song that comes to mind to me would be something like this:

But it repeats bass too rapidly to me. It doesn't seem to let you pick out whether the sub is just rolling on or not (at least not to my untrained ears). Can anyone recommend something that would be good to bring this quality out of a subwoofer (or rather weakness if it is boomier than it is tight)?

I can tell you will not be happy with that Dayton Sub. The Velodyne is very close to your price range, I think you will regret not picking that sub up. I can tell you want a low Qt sub.

 

[Shintsu]

Okay, let's say I pony up and buy the Velodyne which is more than out of my price range. Please explain for silly me who doesn't know what makes that subwoofer anything more special than just another 12" sub. What was its original retail? I know SVS subs start at $429 retail so a used one I would think could be had for similar money or a tad more.

A friend of mine has access to Orion Blue Book and it says the Energy AS-180 I have has an average price of $300. I did see the driver alone on a Craigslist going for $95. I could sell it for $150 or so as is and try to recoop some money towards that Velodyne.

As a sidenote, I find it so funny - the Velodyne looks so much like my Energy. I mean it, the plate amp even is the same shape and the front has a similar design, the edges are the same, and it's the same black finish. I'm seeing the rave reviews though, I'm just having a hard time convincing myself to do it. I'll be a$$ busted if I buy it. I usually kept stuff around I could sell off and recoop some money so as to never let my money pool dip too low - this would take it way down. However, I'm also seeing the point of making a wise purchase now and not needing to make another for some time. I do have an ace up my sleeve but I'm not ready to play it yet. I know his price is good, I wish I could get him to take like $250 buy it now so we could keep it under $300 with shipping - but he'd probably not discount the shipping if I did that.

lol, lsiberian - I never acquired a taste for that expensive coffee. IMO, the gas station cappucino is pretty good - and only like $ .88 if you own one of their mugs for a fill up. Bad news is, this fund is set aside specifically for these sorts of things. My food is taken care of, it's not an extra expense on me so that wouldn't help. My best way to make money is to sell something - and I don't wanna sell anything! Well, I do but the stuff I'm selling is cheap knick knacks that apparently no one wants!

 

[Shintsu]

Update on the Velodyne, I contacted the seller and he would be willing to lower the buy it now to $250 for me. My friend whom I consult regularly about audio equipment is telling me it's such overkill for my small room. Is it? He showed me some Sunfire sub that was $1300 new and I told him this Velodyne went for $1200 new but he still thought the Velodyne was one of the lower lines or something. Not true is it?

 

[TLS Guy]

Update on the Velodyne, I contacted the seller and he would be willing to lower the buy it now to $250 for me. My friend whom I consult regularly about audio equipment is telling me it's such overkill for my small room. Is it? He showed me some Sunfire sub that was $1300 new and I told him this Velodyne went for $1200 new but he still thought the Velodyne was one of the lower lines or something. Not true is it?

He has his brands switched. Velodyne are one of the most respected sub manufacturers. The Sunfire is not a sub I like at all. I'm sorry but your friend does not know what he is talking about. He is a poor source of advice.

At $250 you absolutely need to snap that sub up, that is an outstanding value.