Emotiva & Audioholics, mutual admiration society?

[egreen1976]

***Please Read***

I have seen threads on this before but I would like to start a SERIOUS discussion about this issue. I try to be a smart consumer and I have been an audiophile type person for many years. I am also an owner of an Emotica XPA5 and am so far pleased.

I have been debating and researching whether to wait for the new Emotiva pre/pro or whether to go with one of the new Rotel's. It looks like they will be comperable spec wise with the Emotiva about half the price.

Which brings me to the delimna... It seems that most to ALL of Emotiva's accolades come from audiohiolics and it also seems that this is where you find the vast majority of Emotiva post. It is to the point that it is hard to find Emotiva gear discussed on other sites. Also almost every Emotiva product gets glowing reviews on this site, but it is EXTREMELY hard to find them reviewed elsewhere.

Now I know there will be those that respond with the "other companies pay for reviews and marketing in other mags, etc. etc.", but to those that would say this I ask, "At some point doesn't Emotiva have to fight for a bigger, broader marker?" I live in NY and know Many of the specialty dealers and more than a few are puzzled when the name Emotiva arises.

Now it maybe the case that all Emotiva lovers flock to the site. But this is odd.

For the record I have no criticism of Emotiva gear or my XPA5, I am sure i am getting a good value at the very least. But could it REALLY be best in the business but still such a hidden gem?

I wish I had time to TRULY run there gear next to comperable NAD, Rotel, Etc.. but this isn't a reallity for me.

Sorry for the typos...

Thoughts?

 

[Matt34]

Check out sites such as Polk Audio, AVSforums, AV123, Axiom, Ascend, Home theater Shack, etc. You'll see it's not just Audioholics.com members that overall like their products.(There are some here that don't and they have legitimate reasons why.) Most B&M store employees that I've talked too don't know or hide the fact that they know most of the ID brands that are talked about on these forums.

 

[john72953]

I'm watching this thread with interest!

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Just for the record....I don't like Emo....

 

[Matt34]

There has also been posted here 3rd party measurements and pictures under the hood showing good quality parts as used in other more recognized name brand amplifiers.

 

[gene]

I have seen threads on this before but I would like to start a SERIOUS discussion about this issue. I try to be a smart consumer and I have been an audiophile type person for many years. I am also an owner of an Emotica XPA5 and am so far pleased.

I have been debating and researching whether to wait for the new Emotiva pre/pro or whether to go with one of the new Rotel's. It looks like they will be comperable spec wise with the Emotiva about half the price.

Which brings me to the delimna... It seems that most to ALL of Emotiva's accolades come from audiohiolics and it also seems that this is where you find the vast majority of Emotiva post. It is to the point that it is hard to find Emotiva gear discussed on other sites. Also almost every Emotiva product gets glowing reviews on this site, but it is EXTREMELY hard to find them reviewed elsewhere.

Now I know there will be those that respond with the "other companies pay for reviews and marketing in other mags, etc. etc.", but to those that would say this I ask, "At some point doesn't Emotiva have to fight for a bigger, broader marker?" I live in NY and know Many of the specialty dealers and more than a few are puzzled when the name Emotiva arises.

Now it maybe the case that all Emotiva lovers flock to the site. But this is odd.

For the record I have no criticism of Emotiva gear or my XPA5, I am sure i am getting a good value at the very least. But could it REALLY be best in the business but still such a hidden gem?

I wish I had time to TRULY run there gear next to comperable NAD, Rotel, Etc.. but this isn't a reallity for me.

Sorry for the typos...

Thoughts?

There are many other sites that review Emotiva gear. Its just collectively none of them get the traffic and visibility of Audioholics. If you spend time reading out reviews you will note we clearly point out the good with the bad and also do extensive measurements which some of the time don't agree with Emotiva's specs because we test amplifiers much more conservatively then they used to do in the past.

I suggest checking out Emotiva reviews from hometheaterhifi.com and Ultimate AV for a start.

What's funny is you seem to somehow distrust the reviews here b/c you can't find similar reviews elsewhere, yet you own and love their equipment. Is it me or does a thread like this seem to pop up once / month lately

As for their new Pre/Pro, you may want to wait until we get a review sample in to ring out any of the bugs which I am sure there will be some.

 

[lsiberian]

Wow you own and love their product and then have a problem with others owning and loving their products? Seems inconsistent. Emotiva happens to offer good amps and decent prices, but as with any product at that price point there are compromises. Chances are if you like one of their products you will like others. Most designers tend toward different weaknesses.

Why do people come on here and attack a business for reviewing and promoting their products. Give me a break. I hope they are smart enough to promote their own brands. Otherwise they wont' be around very much longer and you won't have a place to complain.

 

[Adam]

Wow you own and love their product and then have a problem with others owning and loving their products?

That's not how I interpret the original post.

 

[mouettus]

That's not how I interpret the original post.

Nor do I...






What's missing for me in Emotiva is looks! Not refined enough for my tastes. best looking ones are the stacked rotels from last year!!!!!

Emotiva: http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f111/majorloser/AH2008002.jpg
Rotel: http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/images/Rotel_big.jpg

 

[Adam]

I gotta say, I do like how the Emos look. I like the flat black with the blue lighting. Not to say that the Rotels aren't nice, though!

 

[jinjuku]

I live in NY and know Many of the specialty dealers and more than a few are puzzled when the name Emotiva arises.


Thoughts?

I think that says MORE about the specialty dealers awareness of the modern market place. I could see a dealer not knowing about Internet Direct brands 10 years ago, but today? Give me a break.

The problem with walking into a boutique A/V shop and mentioning a brand like Emotiva/SVS/HSU etc... is that the person working the floor automatically knows that they have very little value add. You are already 10 X smarter than the guy with a big wallet and doesn't do any googling.

Enjoy your Emotiva. It's a quality piece without the pretension of $$ that some people like wearing as a badge. Just laugh at the donkey that spent 4 times more for a piece that performs about the same.

 

[mouettus]

I gotta say, I do like how the Emos look. I like the flat black with the blue lighting. Not to say that the Rotels aren't nice, though!

I respect that. I can see how it's appealing to some. Just doesn't fit my decor. I try to keep blue leds away because they are destracting when watching a movie. I don't want my HT wall to look like a star-trek computer panel if you know what I mean!

No seriously this big glossy plasticky power button is killing the deal. And for the lights, I'd like them to be embedded into the front side instead of behind a little glass display.

I know I am picky!! ...and I don't even know why I'm raving so much about amps... I'm gonna be living in an apartment for a couple of years and my RX-V1800 is powering those RC-70's very well for now, neighbors considered.

All that put aside... I'll be very happy to be saving a couple of grands on something that performs quite the same to me when the time comes.

 

[Adam]

No seriously this big glossy plasticky power button is killing the deal.

I hear ya! That really surprised me when I unpacked my RPA-1. I had just assumed that it would be metal. It's plastic and quite loose fitting, which is in contrast to the fit and finish of the rest of the piece.

 

[Rickster71]

Serious discussion, OK.
IMO, Emotive is ignored by most main stream publications, because it would expose the high priced stuff from other companies, and their 500% mark-up, and countless middle-men. That exposure would affect magazine advertising, and income.

Emotive is made in China.
China has some incredible, modern manufacturing capabilities, and the exchange rate, dollar to the Yuan is 6.8 to one US dollar! On top of that, (as if that wasn't enough) they can maintain very low employment / labor costs,(due to their low cost of living, and no unions) China has the ability to produce, and is the go-to place for manufacturing. Much to the chagrin of American companies that are strangled buy high costs, regulation, and high priced union labor.

Some things do fall through the cracks in China, and those mistakes are trumpeted by our US press. The press isn't forthcoming though, with incredible volume that goes through China.

So, my friend, it's not any type of conspiracy. It's simply dollars and cents....or should I say Dollars and Yuan.

 

[egreen1976]

Original Poster

As the original poster I would like to make a few more points,

1) I am totally on board with the idea that emotiva gear isnt that attractive. This is a taste thing but I agree it isn't. My other equipments looks more refined and less plastically. But to be totally fair they do this at half the price as others. So u arent gonna get Apple style design or appeal. But still the Rotel is gorgeous and i must say I like looking at my gear as it hums.

2) A few people have criticized me for loving emotiva gear but being critical of it at the same time. This shows my general problem with this post that does come up monthly. You get a bunch of replies from people basically bashing you for bringing up the question. Like it or not the is a LEGITIMATE question. Only a fool would not question a company or person who can tell u they can deliver same quality good at half the cost as anywhere else. But to be fair again, I did not compare my XPA-5 with other amps side by side before I purchased it. It wa an $800 flier and I am content, but I will be bringing in a Rotel 15 series to do a REAL world comparison.

3) To the Audiohilics response. I do trust audioholics reviews and I do believe them unbiased. That being said this industry is NOTORIOUS for having magazines, websites, and manufacturers in bed with each other. Not saying it's the case here but you have to be safe.

4) Again though I grow suspicious when I see posters getting bashed for very legitmate questions or concerns about a company. I actually did not say a single disparaging word about emotiva but some of the responses make it seem I had.

5) I didnt say before that I do love Emotiva's customer service

6) Oh and yeah and we all know that mostly all specialty dealers say there stuff is the best and all other is crap. It is truly amazing.

 

[Matt34]

I really need to sticky one of these threads as there seems to be a new one every month if not more.

 

[gene]

As the original poster I would like to make a few more points,

1) I am totally on board with the idea that emotiva gear isnt that attractive. This is a taste thing but I agree it isn't. My other equipments looks more refined and less plastically. But to be totally fair they do this at half the price as others. So u arent gonna get Apple style design or appeal. But still the Rotel is gorgeous and i must say I like looking at my gear as it hums.

2) A few people have criticized me for loving emotiva gear but being critical of it at the same time. This shows my general problem with this post that does come up monthly. You get a bunch of replies from people basically bashing you for bringing up the question. Like it or not the is a LEGITIMATE question. Only a fool would not question a company or person who can tell u they can deliver same quality good at half the cost as anywhere else. But to be fair again, I did not compare my XPA-5 with other amps side by side before I purchased it. It wa an $800 flier and I am content, but I will be bringing in a Rotel 15 series to do a REAL world comparison.

3) To the Audiohilics response. I do trust audioholics reviews and I do believe them unbiased. That being said this industry is NOTORIOUS for having magazines, websites, and manufacturers in bed with each other. Not saying it's the case here but you have to be safe.

4) Again though I grow suspicious when I see posters getting bashed for very legitmate questions or concerns about a company. I actually did not say a single disparaging word about emotiva but some of the responses make it seem I had.

5) I didnt say before that I do love Emotiva's customer service

6) Oh and yeah and we all know that mostly all specialty dealers say there stuff is the best and all other is crap. It is truly amazing.

There is nothing inherently special about Emotiva amplifier designs when compared to high output amps from their competitors. In fact, I am not a fan of series-parallel caps in the power supply that they do in many of their amps but I understand why they do it and they do execute very well.

What does make Emo special is their uncommon value that nobody on the market can seem to touch right now. After I reviewed the XPA-2, you would be surprised to know how many competitor manufacturers called me asking for the secret of how Emo is manufacturing amps so cheaply. Considering that these type of threads seem to keep popping up here and on AVS Forum, that is why some (including myself) often think its a competitor manufacturer / publication / troll trying to stir up the pot and/or discredit either us or Emotiva.

 

[jinjuku]

As the original poster I would like to make a few more points,


2) A few people have criticized me for loving emotiva gear but being critical of it at the same time. This shows my general problem with this post that does come up monthly. You get a bunch of replies from people basically bashing you for bringing up the question.

You aren't being bashed for asking a legitimate question. What I believe you are being bashed for is this quote from your first post:

It seems that most to ALL of Emotiva's accolades come from audiohiolics and it also seems that this is where you find the vast majority of Emotiva post. It is to the point that it is hard to find Emotiva gear discussed on other sites.

You made accusations that are very erroneous. Your statement measured against the fact that a google search yielded results that are completely incongruous with your above statement.



Now how do you think that looks to the seasoned posters here? I don't know about you, but I only see AH once in the search results.

 

[jinjuku]

So? Go to hometheatershack, go to AVSForum, they have a search feature.





The 2nd page of the Google search:


Go on to page 3/4/5 etc... Do I have to do all the thinking? Dear Lord

*I am not sure what happened to Adam's post that this is a reply to...*

 

[Adam]

Now how do you think that looks to the seasoned posters here? I don't know about you, but I only see AH once in the search results.

Yes, there are other sites, but your search isn't quite what you indicate. You gotta read closer.

First link - Emotivas site. Makes sense.
Second link - review from 2005.
Third link - hometheaterhifi review from early 2006.
Fourth link - Audioholics.
Fifth link - AudioReview customer reviews. Not many there.
Sixth link - Ecoustics link to Audioholics review
Seventh link - AVS forum posting (edited by Clint), with link to Audioholics review
Eight link - link to hometheaterhifi review from mid 2007.

So out of eight links, there's the manufacturer's site, reviews from two other sites from a little while ago, about ten customer reviews, and three links to AH.

I don't know how it is nowadays because I'm never buying from them again and don't care to research it, but when I was trying to find info on Emotiva in 2007, the vast majority of info or reviews (at least, any recent stuff at the time) was here. So, I understand the question because I went through it myself.

EDIT: Wow, jinjuku - you are a quick reader! You read my other post before I took it down to change it. Nice addition of other images.