audiovideologic

[ParadigmDawg]

Son of a gun, after moving my sub and testing in every place in my house, the original place has the flattest response. Feel like I spent all morning chasing my tail. Back to square one.

Where does Audessy fit in here? Should I run it first and leave it on then do the SMS cal or do the SMS cal and then run Audessy or leave Audessy off at all times?

 

[Davemcc]

When I get it as flat as it is on the last graph, I don't have much bass. Checking it with a SPL it is about 10db down. If I run it level matched I get the first graph I posted where the high end falls way off.

This sounds like an issue I've experienced but never really looked into. I left it as an open question mark in my head. I eq the FR to get it flat, then adjust the relative volume levels to my preference after the fact.

Pay no attention to anything over 80hz. If you're crossed over at 80, it will send a full range sweep that also comes out of your mains, but in normal operation using the LFE output, only the portion below the crossover point will be sent to your sub. During the sweeps, the SMS-1 is sending a full range signal to your AVR but in normal operation, the SMS-1 is only receiving the LFE signal from your AVR.

 

[jostenmeat]

Where does Audessy fit in here? Should I run it first and leave it on then do the SMS cal or do the SMS cal and then run Audessy or leave Audessy off at all times?

Audyssey first. (of course, after determining final positions of sub, speakers, you, treatments). Check levels, distances and xover points chosen, to see if you are satisfied. It will be more accurate than an RS meter for levels, btw.

Then all of your other eq. Adjust to taste. BTW, I'd look into what kind of target curves are available, if any, on your Denon. On my Onkyo I can have it as either flat, or with the house curve so to speak with the rolled off upper end.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Thanks man, that's what I was thinking.

The curves I see are Audessy, Audessy bypass L&R, Audessy Flat and Manual.

Then all of your other eq. Adjust to taste. BTW, I'd look into what kind of target curves are available, if any, on your Denon. On my Onkyo I can have it as either flat, or with the house curve so to speak with the rolled off upper end.

 

[jostenmeat]

Thanks man, that's what I was thinking.

The curves I see are Audessy, Audessy bypass L&R, Audessy Flat and Manual.

Cool. Nice set of curves! (No, I wasn't talking to your wife).

I'm sure you know already, but when calibrating, I'd recommend keeping the mic above the seat back. Otherwise, the system will be calibrating for the primary reflection off this seat back. It will probably even calibrate for the secondary reflection from the front wall, originating from the seat back.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Yes, I use a mic stand with the top of the mic 4'' above the backrest.

No matter how I adjust the SMS, I have a nasty dip at the crossover point and I have tried several different crossovers.

Cool. Nice set of curves! (No, I wasn't talking to your wife).

I'm sure you know already, but when calibrating, I'd recommend keeping the mic above the seat back. Otherwise, the system will be calibrating for the primary reflection off this seat back. It will probably even calibrate for the secondary reflection from the front wall, originating from the seat back.

 

[jostenmeat]

So then I can bypass the crossover and use the one in the AVR? Is this what I should do?

No matter how I adjust the SMS, I have a nasty dip at the crossover point and I have tried several different crossovers.

I had to read back a few pages . . .

Just to be sure, you did fix this, yes, disabled sms xover? No cascading x-overs (in addition to receiver's). . . which might cause this crazy suckout . . .

I'm not sure that they could help you, but in case you wanted to ask something in the future, here is the official audyssey thread. The guy named audyssey, or Chris, is founder and cto of this company.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=795421&page=359

 

[rmk]

Yes, I use a mic stand with the top of the mic 4'' above the backrest.

No matter how I adjust the SMS, I have a nasty dip at the crossover point and I have tried several different crossovers.

Interesting, I have found the phase adjustments usually help with Xover nulls.

Audyssey suggests running the SMS-1 first then Audyssey. I have done it both ways but am now using the Audyssey last method. Depending upon the ammount of null at the Xover you may be able to do some boost with the SMS-1 (use a couple of sliders if necessary) and then let Audyssey finish the job.

 

[mike c]

sometimes the dip at crossover can be fixed by changing the phase or polarity on the SMS-1

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Yes, I removed the crossovers on the SMS.

Thanks for the link.

I had to read back a few pages . . .

Just to be sure, you did fix this, yes, disabled sms xover? No cascading x-overs (in addition to receiver's). . . which might cause this crazy suckout . . .

I'm not sure that they could help you, but in case you wanted to ask something in the future, here is the official audyssey thread. The guy named audyssey, or Chris, is founder and cto of this company.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=795421&page=359

 

[ParadigmDawg]

If I go out of phase it makes the dip worse.

I have been a little nervous about moving the sliders too much as I am trying not to stack frequencies. It is sounding really good right now so I am going to enjoy it and then mess with it more later.

Thanks for the help guys.

Interesting, I have found the phase adjustments usually help with Xover nulls.

Audyssey suggests running the SMS-1 first then Audyssey. I have done it both ways but am now using the Audyssey last method. Depending upon the ammount of null at the Xover you may be able to do some boost with the SMS-1 (use a couple of sliders if necessary) and then let Audyssey finish the job.

 

[Davemcc]

If you think the sliders are getting too close to each other, you can adjust the Q to limit the frequency range of each slider to prevent stacking. I think the higher the Q number, the narrower the range so you can put the sliders closer together. Somebody correct me it I'm wrong here.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

This is crossed over at 60hz and not worrying about the drop after the crossover point. Does this look ok?

 

[Davemcc]

What happens to that 80Hz dip if you move the crossover to 100Hz?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

It flattens some but my system sounds better at the lower crossover. My mains go quite low so I would hate to use a high crossover.

What happens to that 80Hz dip if you move the crossover to 100Hz?

 

[mike c]

that really looks like a crossover dip that can be solved by playing with the phase or polarity ... have you played with those?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

It gets worse if I go out of phase.

I can flatten it out with a contour of +6 at 75hz but that doesn't seem like a good idea....is it?

that really looks like a crossover dip that can be solved by playing with the phase or polarity ... have you played with those?

 

[mike c]

It gets worse if I go out of phase.

I can flatten it out with a contour of +6 at 75hz but that doesn't seem like a good idea....is it?

what about polarity? + or -
phase - did you try the 15, 30, 45, etc. ?

is the dip still present in another mic location? (so we can be sure if it's a crossover dip or room dip)

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Polarity is just 0 or 180...correct?

Yes, I have tried various settings.

I need to recheck mic positions.

what about polarity? + or -
phase - did you try the 15, 30, 45, etc. ?

is the dip still present in another mic location? (so we can be sure if it's a crossover dip or room dip)

 

[Matt34]

Definitely mess with the phase and polarity settings as it looks like it's a setup issue and not so much a room issue.