Pioneer VSX 918V-K For Music. Want more cowbell.

[Ritchie]

Hello All,

This is my first post here. I have a pioneer VSX 918V-K hooked up to four JBL 29AV monitors in my 30' X 40' shop. The JBL's are mounted on the walls in each corner. I have tried several setups but the volume just dosent seem to be up to par. The KLH reciever and Lil' Pioneer speakers I have in my other garage have a fuller more forceful volume of sound when cranked. The pioneer and JBL's sound great as far as quality but lack in volume. I expected this system to really crank because of the stated 120W / ch in the Pionneer.
It is most likey closer to 95W / ch. But that is still more than my KLH reciver.

At first I set two JBL's to the front [Large] speakers and the other two to the Surround [Large] speakers. This worked but favored the fronts on most settings. So I moved the other two to the B chanel and turned off the suround speakers with the setup menu. This helped balance the speakers. It sounds pretty good like this. But I still wish it had more volume. Also, if the volume is turned up to -15 or higher, the sound has distortion.
Even my 65watt guitar amp is much much louder.

Rich

 

[Adam]

Welcome to the forum, Rich! BTW, I'm still chuckling at the thread title. "Want more cowbell."

Others here know this better, so I'll defer to them - but I think that it's because you are running off of the A and B speakers. I think those use the same internal amps, and that might be limiting you. I'm not sure of how to set it up better, though, because you seem to want the same audio coming from the front and rear speakers. I was thinking that your receiver had assignable surround back speaker amps, but it doesn't.

Anyway, I look forward to what the others here have to say.

 

[Ritchie]

Thanks, LOL. In the setup screen. (i am using a TV) the surround speakers can be set to Large or Small and Off. Thats about it.

 

[rnatalli]

I expected this system to really crank because of the stated 120W / ch in the Pionneer.
It is most likey closer to 95W / ch. But that is still more than my KLH reciver

Actually, the 918 measured in at about 34wpc on the bench with all 5 channels driven. Not unusual as several manufacturers inflate their figures. It did do well in 2-channel however. See the following link:

http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/808piorec/index2.html

 

[Ritchie]

34 wats per ch. LOL. It sounds like just that. Think I will put this Pioneer in the house and put the old 1990's pioneer out in the shop. It has no surround or 5.1, just A and B.
Or get a new reciever that has more cowbell.


Thanks,

Rich

 

[Ritchie]

Thanks for the link rnatalli. Really helps me find the right reciever

 

[Ritchie]

What a wealth of information I found here using the search.
I should be shopping for a simple 2 channel system that has enogh power to drive the JBL's. This forum has pointed me in the right direction but the search for a 2 ch stereo reciever is become exhausting. Again, I wind up with a long list of recievers. The Rotel RX-1052 stands out as the leader so far but it is expensive. What would be a good alternative to the Rotel.

Specs for the JBL 29AV:
Frequency Range (-10 dB)1: 37 Hz –18 kHz
Frequency Response (± 3 dB)1: 43 Hz – 15 kHz
100 Hr Power Capacity 2: 300 Watts Continuous Program Power
150 Watts Continuous Pink Noise
Maximum SPL @ 1m3: Short-Term: 118 dB; Long-Term: 112 dB
Nominal Sensitivity4: 90 dB, 1W @ 1 m (3.3 ft)
Nominal Coverage Angle5: 110° H x 85° V, rotatable
Directivity Factor (Q): 6.7, averaged 500 Hz to 16 kHz
Directivity Index (DI): 8.3 dB, averaged 500 Hz to 16 kHz
Nominal Impedance: 8 ohms
Minimum Impedance: 6.3 ohms @ 230 Hz 3.3 ohms @ 4.1 kHz
Crossover Type: 3rd order High Pass, 2nd order Low Pass with
impedance compensation, 2.5 kHz crossover
frequency
Transformer Taps: 70V: 110W, 55W, 28W & 14W
100V: 110W, 55W, & 28W
Thru Position: 8Ω nominal

 

[Ritchie]

That was easy. The HK-3490 looks like a winner.

 

[B3Nut]

The Onkyo TX-8555 with 100wpc (honest, both channels driven) is a good 2-channel unit. Rotel is very well-made gear, but the Onkyo isn't too shabby. Both are good, modern solid-state amplifiers that are essentially electrically transparent, so decide based on price/performance and feature set, and whether or not the extra build quality is worth it to you. The Onkyo is stable into 4 ohms (essential for pairing speakers up as you are doing), I would assume the Rotel is too as they typically have very robust power supplies.

You are running those speakers on the 8-ohm tap and not any of the 70V taps, right? That would cause reduced volume. Also, a 65-watt or even a 30-watt guitar amp is going to be subjectively louder than a powerful stereo, for quite a few reasons (I have a 30-watt Peavey 1x12 tube combo that can peel paint, and gig with a 40-watt tube Leslie speaker for organ that fills the whole bar, though I still mic a bit of it through the PA.)

 

[Ritchie]

Thanks. I will check the setting on the speakers to make sure thay are set to 8 ohms. Also just got a 12" long 6mm hex wrench so I can loosen the "invisiball" mounts to point the speaker in a better direction. Right now they point down and away from the center of the shop. If no big gains are made, I will pick from the now short list.

 

[bandphan]

In 2ch the Pioneer will drive your speakers to very loud levels. Imo you should be looking at other options. And unless you move way up the food chain in terms of power you will not notice a objective difference.

 

[Ritchie]

Now running the 4 speakers on the A channel. And the JBL's were not set on "pass thru". So I set them on the "pass thru" setting and that helped alot.
Sound quality is very good and goes pretty loud now with no distortion.
I recon it is good enough for the shop sound system now. Though I am still curious how the Onkyo tx-8555 or the HK 4390 would perform. Like you said it is probably moot.

 

[Ritchie]

So. the 918 driving all 5 channels is at 34 watts. The 5 channels being front L, front R, surround R, surround L and Center.

The bench test states "This graph shows that the VSX-918V’s left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 149.7 watts and 1 percent distortion at 168.6 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 188.1 watts and 1 percent distortion at 236.0 watts. "

I am only using front R & L and surround R & L with the center and sub set to "no speaker". Would mean that because I am not using all 5 channels that the watt number is somewhere between 147 and 34? Say around 47.5 watts?

Pioneer 918 Amplifier section
• Continuous power output (stereo)
Front . . .95 W (20 Hz to 20 kHz, THD 0.2 %, 8 Ω
)
1
• Rated power output
(surround / 20 Hz to 20 kHz, THD 0.06 %, 8 Ω
)
Front . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .95 W per channel
Center . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 95 W
Surround. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .95 W per channel
• Rated power output
(surround / 1 kHz, THD 0.05 %, 8 Ω
)
Front . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .120 W per channel
Center . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 120 W
Surround. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .120 W per channel
----------------------------------------------------------

one more question (in me best colombo voice)

The Onkyo and HK units I am trying to rationalize myself into buying state
100 and 120 w thru 2 channels. Would that change running 4 speakers?
If yes, what is the next step up in the food chain. Because I got a fever for a receiver and the only cure is more cowbell.

 

[bandphan]

Yes. And unless you are running an 5ch mono dsp, you wouldnt ever be driven all chanels at Max at the same time.

 

[Ritchie]

I tested the longest run of speaker wire for resistance. It is 16 ga speaker wire at 54 feet long. When I put the Fluke meter on it, I got a reading that would go back and forth between 0.4 and 0.5, which is at the upper limit of acceptable. I will buy another spool of 16 ga and double up. (Doubled gave a reading of 0.2)

The Pioneer 918 is actually a great unit. The application is not perfect but I am impressed with the sound quality. I will report my finding after I double up the speaker wire.

Thanks.

 

[Ritchie]

I did not double the 16 ga speaker wire. I instead got a 500 ft roll of 12 ga and 200 ft of 1/2" blue conduit. Pushing the wires into the conduit was a chore but doable. I made up 4 sets 50 ft each. I tested the 12 ga at 50 ft and got a Ohm reading of .15. (The 16 ga was .45) I could hear the difference right away. The hi freq is much cleaner now.

The 918 Pioneer does do a good job and running only the two front and two surround speakers the setting I found to give the best music sound quality: Run the auto setting w/ the mic. and set EQ to "All Channels", Turn both "Midnight" and Loudness" off, and the Advanced Surround set to "X-Stereo". It does a great job for a 4 speaker set up. Hope this helps someone doing the same thing.