Am I dreaming? 18" reccomendations

[jboogie]

Are there any reccomendations for an 18" driver that will be used for HT use that are below $200? I would also like to keep the RMS on the low side.

OR, would it be unwise to run a simple kappa build unit on one channel, and an 18" on the other? (Behringer 2500)

For the 18, I would like to keep the box as small as is reasonable. No giants here.

 

[OttoMatic]

The Fi drivers are very nice. I think mine were about $220 each. Two will shake my rather large room. I believe they are here. I believe the Mach5 drivers will be a little cheaper, but I prefer the Fi drivers (used both).

 

[WmAx]

The subs should be matched if dual/multiples. I don't recommend purposely building two different units.

I recommend not being so cheap on an 18" driver. Why put up with a low quality piece of hardware? You also state you want to only use a small box as well. You are completely missing the point of the purpose to use such a large diameter driver in the first place(the additional extension while having relatively high sensitivity).

The Acoustic Elegance 15" AV15 subwoofer is a very efficient subwoofer that is suited to when the user does not have much amplifier power available. The driver can also take considerable power; but it works better than most on low power - which sounds like something you need. It is $250.

There are of course many more options - but not many at all when you start wanting to use very low power amplifiers.

Please state total budget, room dimensions, desired extension and SPL, etc..

-Chris

 

[jboogie]

Please state total budget, room dimensions, desired extension and SPL, etc..

-Chris

Thanks Chris, I am looking at spending $500 for amp and driver. I know that this is very low, but it would get me another Infinity Kappa Perfect 12VQ and a Behringer 2500.

My room is 22X14 almost completely open to the rest of the house including the stairway downstairs.

(I have an Infinity Kappa simple build. It is great, but here is the problem. I have the DVQ model wich gets me an 8ohm load combined with the PE BASH 300 plate amp. It makes some pretty good rumble, but I know that there is more out there.

My thinking was that with the precision of the Infinity driver a low budget 18" would add that wow factor for the HT lows.

I can not get WinISD to work properly to show me the differences in input wattage vs. Fmax. ((Clearly I am inputting some parameter incorrectly)

Would 2 infinity's properly amped make all of the difference. Can this be quantified???)

Thank you for your help.

 

[Guiria]

-Chris [/U][/I] (I have an Infinity Kappa simple build. It is great, but here is the problem. I have the DVQ model wich gets me an 8ohm load combined with the PE BASH 300 plate amp. It makes some pretty good rumble, but I know that there is more out there.

Isn't the PE Bash amplifier 300 watts at 4 ohms so your kappa perfect DVQ is seeing about 150 watts total power.

I'll tell you soon how the Kappa sounds with 600 watts

I would do your upgrade in steps. If you are looking for a different driver to produce more low end grunt and the EP2500 then why not get the EP2500 and run that with your kappa build to see if you can produce satisfactory SPL? If not then atleast you know the Kappa design properly amplified, is not what you are looking for and you can continue on...

 

[WmAx]

My room is 22X14 almost completely open to the rest of the house including the stairway downstairs.

(I have an Infinity Kappa simple build. It is great, but here is the problem. I have the DVQ model wich gets me an 8ohm load combined with the PE BASH 300 plate amp. It makes some pretty good rumble, but I know that there is more out there.

For one thing, the Dayton amps make far less power than they claim, and it's only 300 watts at 4 Ohms claimed. I expect actual power at 4 Ohms is around 200 watts at the most. Wired to 8 Ohm.... 125-150 watts.

That is woefully insufficient power for the Kappa Perfect 12" VQ.

You are using the avaserfi cabinet, slot ported, right?

My thinking was that with the precision of the Infinity driver a low budget 18" would add that wow factor for the HT lows.

I can not get WinISD to work properly to show me the differences in input wattage vs. Fmax. ((Clearly I am inputting some parameter incorrectly)

Would 2 infinity's properly amped make all of the difference. Can this be quantified???)

Thank you for your help.

A pair of the Kappa Perfect VQs cabinets as provided by avaserfi, powered by an Ep2500 amplifier will produce a very substantial amount of output down to 17-18Hz. Now, with that HUGE volume you have to filll with bass (the room is pretty good size - but with huge openings to the rest of the house - this makes it a most difficult situation). As far as quantifying the difference; if you will settle for relative comparison, here it is: the proper amp will give you about 60% more output, distortion free, from the subwoofer. If you add a 2nd subwoofer, then this will result in roughly 300% to 400% more LF output as compared to your current situation. It will have no audible distortion or compression, presuming correct set up and build, and assuming they are next to each other/close. I highly recommend a subsonic filter set at 20Hz to protect the drivers from over-excursion under the port tuning frequency if a movie LF effect happens to occur under the port tune frequency at high SPL level.

If you want substantially more output capability, and with the same high SQ, you have increase the budget considerably.

-Chris

 

[jboogie]

For one thing, the Dayton amps make far less power than they claim, and it's only 300 watts at 4 Ohms claimed. I expect actual power at 4 Ohms is around 200 watts at the most. Wired to 8 Ohm.... 125-150 watts.

That is woefully insufficient power for the Kappa Perfect 12" VQ.

You are using the avaserfi cabinet, slot ported, right?



A pair of the Kappa Perfect VQs cabinets as provided by avaserfi, powered by an Ep2500 amplifier will produce a very substantial amount of output down to 17-18Hz. Now, with that HUGE volume you have to filll with bass (the room is pretty good size - but with huge openings to the rest of the house - this makes it a most difficult situation). As far as quantifying the difference; if you will settle for relative comparison, here it is: the proper amp will give you about 60% more output, distortion free, from the subwoofer. If you add a 2nd subwoofer, then this will result in roughly 300% to 400% more LF output as compared to your current situation. It will have no audible distortion or compression, presuming correct set up and build, and assuming they are next to each other/close. I highly recommend a subsonic filter set at 20Hz to protect the drivers from over-excursion under the port tuning frequency if a movie LF effect happens to occur under the port tune frequency at high SPL level.

If you want substantially more output capability, and with the same high SQ, you have increase the budget considerably.

-Chris

Wow! This definately sounds like money well spent. First the amp, then the second sub.

Yes, I am using the avaserfi design. Thank you so much for the info. I can't imagine what 300% more bass will sound like. I think the GF's "labradoodle" or whatever, is in for a long night soon!

 

[jboogie]

So to be clear. When I get the 2500 I will bring the LFE to a 1/4" input into the amp.?.

Or, does it have to be XLR?

Is an EQ absolutely necessary, or simply a good idea?

 

[WmAx]

So to be clear. When I get the 2500 I will bring the LFE to a 1/4" input into the amp.?.

Or, does it have to be XLR?

Is an EQ absolutely necessary, or simply a good idea?

You can use the 1/4" or XLR inputs. They are the same input, just a different connector. In either event, do consider that pro amps expect a higher input voltage as compared to RCA equipped consumer gear. So, there is a good chance you may end up having to use a line signal converter such as the Art CleanBox or Rolls MB15. I would probably try the MB15 over the ART, btw.

I recommend a DCX2496 as your 'EQ'. It allows you to....

(1) Set the sub-sonic protection filters for the ported subwoofers.
(2) Set ideal xover slopes for both the mains and subwoofers(of course you have to use external amps for the mains to use it to control the mains.
(3) No need for the Art Cleanbox or Rolls MB15. The DCX has a clean high gain input pre-amp stage to increase your regular consumer inputs to proper level.
(4) Apply room response corrections.
(5) Apply filters to conrol the subective 'tightness' of bass. You can use the DCX to make the ported cabinets sound like sealed cabinets if you so desire.

-Chris