Pro Amplifier recommendations

[jliedeka]

The NAD seems a little small on the surface. My Marantz is rated at 125wpc vs the 100wpc of the NAD. The NAD, however probably puts out more power. I think for my living room, it would probably be enough, especially since it doesn't have to worry about below 80Hz most of the time.

At this point, I'm leaning toward the Yamaha amps. At $400 shipped for the non reconditioned P2500S, I'd have way more head room than I need. The amps would mostly be out of sight so I don't care a lot about looks.

Now I need to figure out how I'm going to deal with 5 Yamaha amps plus 3 DCXs when I go active.

Jim

 

[Soundman]

The NAD seems a little small on the surface. My Marantz is rated at 125wpc vs the 100wpc of the NAD. The NAD, however probably puts out more power. I think for my living room, it would probably be enough, especially since it doesn't have to worry about below 80Hz most of the time.

At this point, I'm leaning toward the Yamaha amps. At $400 shipped for the non reconditioned P2500S, I'd have way more head room than I need. The amps would mostly be out of sight so I don't care a lot about looks.

Now I need to figure out how I'm going to deal with 5 Yamaha amps plus 3 DCXs when I go active.

Jim

I know that NAD is a great little amp. I also know that NAD rates their power very conservatively. I only mentioned the XPA-5 b/c it is also very conservatively rated: 200wpc, times 5, all channels driven, so just a little more bang for your buck, that's all. I'm sure theres some other bargins out there too. But I guess if you're leaning towards the Yammy it doesn't matter.

 

[Soundman]

Soundman,

I think your question more or less comes down to question of application. For most people, power in the 300watts per channel range is indeed going to be plenty of headroom. But then again, it also comes down to the speaker resistance, size of room, and user listening preferences that will determine if that will even be enough.

I mean, for example, take the JTR Triple 12LF speaker, which is a unit that I have seen members on a couple of forums using in their theaters. This speaker is a 4ohm load that has a recommended amplifier power rating of 1,000 watts. For this speaker, the Behringer EP2500 would probably do, but it could take even more power than that unit supplies into 4ohms--in which case you would be stepping up to the more costly Yammy and QSC models.

In terms of shear price point the pro-amps win the battle as you would have to get three XPA-2's to even compete with three EP2500's. The three XPA-2's into 4ohms would be pushing 500 watts a channel at a cost of $2,475 shipped--while the three EP2500's would be pushing 750watts a channel into 4ohms at a cost of $900 shipped (these can be had for $300 each shipped BTW). So there is absolutely NO competition in terms of price or power here.

But then again, this leads into the aesthetic battle, as indeed not everyone can have the look of pro-amps sitting in their living room. Those who have dedicated and/or custom cabinets can utilize them--and people who have media closets for all their gear---and then you have the dedicated hardcore folks who don't care and/or like the way they look.

So their are alot of facets to the use of pro-amplifiers, but they certainly offer a value and power that cannot be had in commercial 'botique' gear...

Thanks for chiming in. Well, that does make sense. That JTR is some power hog! My speakers are around 90db sensitivity and 8ohm. So, I seriously doubt I would need 500wpc. In my example, I talked about the XPA-3 which does 200wpc (times 3, 8 ohm), for $499. The XPA-5 does 200wpc (times 5, 8ohm) for $799. So, I'm thinking that getting 200wpc for 5 channels for an 8 ohm speaker, should be plenty in theory. I would have to spend alot more then that for individual amps. Does that make sense? Also, I'm still considering pro gear if there is a benefit to it, but right now, I'm not seeing an advantage for my application. Please enlighten me, if I'm overlooking something.

Correction: the sensitivity of my mains are actually 91.5db, center is 89db, and surrounds are 87db, so average sensitivity is 89.2, not that it matters much.

 

[Chopin_Guy]

I would have to spend alot more then that for individual amps. Does that make sense? Also, I'm still considering pro gear if there is a benefit to it, but right now, I'm not seeing an advantage for my application. Please enlighten me, if I'm overlooking something.

Correction: the sensitivity of my mains are actually 91.5db, center is 89db, and surrounds are 87db, so average sensitivity is 89.2, not that it matters much.

Well you have 8ohm speakers so that is already an easier load to put on an amplifier. What kind of speakers do you have and what are their rated power handling?? The other question is how loud do you listen? Now if you have a bookshelf speaker system, then the pro-amps will certianly be overkill. However, if you multiple driver floorstanders and a large center channel speaker---then I would definitely not rule out the pro gear...

IMO, you can not have too much power as it is in many ways much more dangerous to under-power your speakers. Not that a XPA-5 in any way would be under-powering your speakers. But for me, I would rather have the headroom, and 3 EP2500's will give you double the headroom and will only cost you $100 more than the XPA-5.

So, if you can, I would still go with the pro-gear regardless...

 

[WmAx]

To the poster intending to go full active with DCX units.... you had best get an amp with XLR inputs AND variable gain controls. You may have to use some sort of attenuator even if you use XLR input amps with no controls. Because the Emotiva for example, will have too high of an input sensitivity, causing possible audible hiss when hooked directly to a DCX2496. I know a guy that has this problem and instead of bothering with using attenuators between the DCX and Emotiva, he went ahead and used a pro amp with variable input gain controls on his front main speakers. If you don't mind using the adapters and/or attenuators, then get any amp you want for future use with the DCX or similar device.

-Chris

 

[Soundman]

Well you have 8ohm speakers so that is already an easier load to put on an amplifier. What kind of speakers do you have and what are their rated power handling?? The other question is how loud do you listen? Now if you have a bookshelf speaker system, then the pro-amps will certianly be overkill. However, if you multiple driver floorstanders and a large center channel speaker---then I would definitely not rule out the pro gear...

IMO, you can not have too much power as it is in many ways much more dangerous to under-power your speakers. Not that a XPA-5 in any way would be under-powering your speakers. But for me, I would rather have the headroom, and 3 EP2500's will give you double the headroom and will only cost you $100 more than the XPA-5.

So, if you can, I would still go with the pro-gear regardless...

My speakers are in my auto signature. I have the Rocket 850's as mains. They are an easy load, but b/c of the 6-driver arrangement, they can handle quite a bit of power. In fact, there have been some posts over at the AV123 forums saying that they really open up when fed more power. So, I'm throwing the idea around and trying to decide what amplification to use, especially since I'll be moving this setup to a larger room soon.
Also, I'm still skeptical about these pro amps having the same sound quality as a ht amp? Have you tried both and heard a difference?

 

[jliedeka]

To the poster intending to go full active with DCX units.... you had best get an amp with XLR inputs AND variable gain controls. You may have to use some sort of attenuator even if you use XLR input amps with no controls. Because the Emotiva for example, will have too high of an input sensitivity, causing possible audible hiss when hooked directly to a DCX2496. I know a guy that has this problem and instead of bothering with using attenuators between the DCX and Emotiva, he went ahead and used a pro amp with variable input gain controls on his front main speakers. If you don't mind using the adapters and/or attenuators, then get any amp you want for future use with the DCX or similar device.

-Chris

Chris,

Do pro sound amps meet these criteria? The Yamaha P2500S has a gain control. Is that what you are talking about? If not, what buzzwords should I be looking for in a pro amp?

Jim

 

[jamie2112]

Chris,

Do pro sound amps meet these criteria? The Yamaha P2500S has a gain control. Is that what you are talking about? If not, what buzzwords should I be looking for in a pro amp?

Jim

Yes the Yamahas have gain controls and that is what Chris is saying. You are correct Jim.

 

[WmAx]

Chris,

Do pro sound amps meet these criteria? The Yamaha P2500S has a gain control. Is that what you are talking about? If not, what buzzwords should I be looking for in a pro amp?

Jim

Jamie beat me.

-Chris

 

[Soundman]

Chris,

Do pro sound amps meet these criteria? The Yamaha P2500S has a gain control. Is that what you are talking about? If not, what buzzwords should I be looking for in a pro amp?

Jim

But are they of the same quality as a HT amp? Looking at the specs, the distortion levels seem to be higher, granted this may not be audible at all. I'm also wondering what criteria is used for rating the power and what class of amp are these?

 

[jamie2112]

But are they of the same quality as a HT amp? Looking at the specs, the distortion levels seem to be higher, granted this may not be audible at all. I'm also wondering what criteria is used for rating the power and what class of amp are these?

It is not audible whatsoever. If I had unlimited money I would still buy the Yamaha pro amps over Krell Or Classe or you name it it is snake oil. The Yamaha amps as well as the higher end Behringer amps are OUTSTANDING for what you pay.Chris is the man when it comes to these matters but I know enough that the Yammies are great for HT and in most cases better than the Hi End HT amps.

 

[jliedeka]

Plus, I and probably many others, wouldn't be using anywhere near the rated power. I would be surprised if I used more than 1/3 even for peaks.

Jim

 

[Soundman]

It is not audible whatsoever. If I had unlimited money I would still buy the Yamaha pro amps over Krell Or Classe or you name it it is snake oil. The Yamaha amps as well as the higher end Behringer amps are OUTSTANDING for what you pay.Chris is the man when it comes to these matters but I know enough that the Yammies are great for HT and in most cases better than the Hi End HT amps.

OK, fair enough, but I've heard that setup may be more complicated. With my current amp, you basically connect it to your pre/pro and that's it. I don't have much experience with pro gear, but these pro amps have gain controls, I don't see any v trigger of any kind. I've also heard some having problems connecting them to their processor. Aestetically, they are ugly compared to the HT gear, but I can overlook that for performance. if I were to go this route, I just want to make sure it's the right fit for my current gear.

 

[WmAx]

The distortion level is not higher. That is only the THD at the rated power level. Drop down say 5% from the maximum power and it will just as low as any high end consumer amplifier. Go look at the THD measurements of pro amps on avs forum by chasw98. This will quickly verify that for you.

-Chris

 

[jliedeka]

OK, fair enough, but I've heard that setup may be more complicated. With my current amp, you basically connect it to your pre/pro and that's it. I don't have much experience with pro gear, but these pro amps have gain controls, I don't see any v trigger of any kind. I've also heard some having problems connecting them to their processor. Aestetically, they are ugly compared to the HT gear, but I can overlook that for performance. if I were to go this route, I just want to make sure it's the right fit for my current gear.

There's no free lunch. You get a lot of good sounding watts for your dollar but, at minimum, you need some sort of adapters to go from the preamp stage to a pro power amp. Level matching gizmos may be required like the ART Clean Box. (I'm planning to try it without, fingers crossed)

Everything in audio is a trade off. That's the only universally true statement I know about.

Jim

 

[jamie2112]

A clean box is $40 and adapters are very cheap. Its no free lunch but it is a 75% discount for what you get...at least.

 

[Soundman]

A clean box is $40 and adapters are very cheap. Its no free lunch but it is a 75% discount for what you get...at least.

I guess I don't know enogh about pro gear. I wouldn't know where to begin as far as connectivity goes. The Yamaha's do look nice. Any advice for connecting to an Emotiva pre-amp?

 

[WmAx]

I guess I don't know enogh about pro gear. I wouldn't know where to begin as far as connectivity goes. The Yamaha's do look nice. Any advice for connecting to an Emotiva pre-amp?

Simple actually - consumer gear used RCA plugs and jacks. Pro gear uses XLR plugs and jacks. The CleanBox by Art has RCA inputs and XLR inputs on one side(INPUT SIDE) and RCA outputs and XLR outputs on the other side(OUTPUT SIDE). You would use RCA patch cable to connect your consumer pre-out to the INPUT SIDE of the CleanBox. Then use XLR patch cables on the OUTPUT side of the CleanBox to feed to the amp XLR inputs.

If you have an Emotiva pre-amp, it may have XLR outputs and not need any such conversion box. Look on the back for XLR-Balanced outputs.

Here is an example image with both input and output XLR jacks:

-Chris

 

[keres]

This is my first post.
My question is?

It is better to take the behringer ep 1500 or yamaha P2500S, both have the same quality? The price is not important.
Ciao from Italy
Massimo

 

[MidnightSensi]

I would stray away from the Behringer amplifiers, they are okay for messing around with stuff but in the club scene they have been completely abandoned because while they make big numbers for cheap, they don't last, travel bad (this isn't an issue for home use), and the support is horrible. In addition to that, we have had threads here about Monsters business practices, well, Behringer's products are all stolen designs from other companies (the amps are ...poor... QSC knockoffs, the monitors are Genelec knockoffs, and so on).

I would go with QSC, Crown or Crest. American companies (we need the business) and they make great amplifiers and stand behind their product. You'll pay a bit more for the numbers, but still a lot less than in consumer audio.