Monster Cable is Back! Sues Mini-Golf Company

[Adam]

I think that we all got your point the first time that you posted that stuff.

I can't really boycott them, seeing as how I stopped buying their stuff years ago. Quality is fine, but no better than other stuff that costs a lot less.

 

[boycott MC]

Sorry about the double posting. SLOW COMPUTER.
I tried to delete the post but could not find "edit" on my post.

I am just so afraid the people will forgot about this and go on their marry way, and forgot to tell people about the evil monster out there.
How about all the people that could not afford to fight him and did not know about forms like this to begin with ?
They are still screwed.
That's what I'm afraid of.

 

[Eryk13]

Both parties got to air their grievances, and develop an understanding of each other's positions.

First off, congrats on a huge win. This is really awesome to read, and it seems like you got everything you were asking for, and almost everything the community wanted (short of MC filing Chapter 11). Thank you for your perserverence to see this thru - it takes a special breed of person to fight the system as hard as you did.

Regarding the quote above, I was hoping you could comment on exactly what Noel and Kevin thought their "grievances" were in this case. Did they really, truly believe that name dilution would happen with your business in the mix? Was their position always that these kind of lawsuits were appropriate, and did that remain their position thru your conversations with them?

I think we'd all like for a shrink to evaluate them to some level on why they think like they do, but you're gonna be the closest we come to that I'm afraid.

Thanks again for keeping us informed on all of this.

 

[Black Santa]

Santa's Watching

Oh Noel Lee, like the Grinch, you looked into Christina Loo Hoo's heart and found goodness and love... either that or you opened your e-mail every morning and found a battalion of Hate Tanks leveling their barrels on your groin... whatever happened I am very happy to hear that you came to your senses and let this witch hunt go!! Therefore I will be hanging up my bag of coal and I won't be seeing you at CES... Oh don't get me wrong, I am still going to Vegas, I mean sh#t man, the Porn Convention is in town and Santa's gonna get some!!

PEACE!!

 

[gene]

Just thought I'd send everyone an update....

Well, the world has spoken and asked Monster Cable to basically "Put up or Shut up"....and (are you sitting down.....?) They listened.

We've been on the phone for about a week with Noel Lee and Kevin Lee, without the lawyers, and as of yesterday we signed an agreement which includes legal reimbursement, an apology, dropping their oppositions to our trademarks and allowing us to register them (without a license agreement), no gag-order, no canned public statements, and most importantly....
(And this is the one that EVERYONE wanted.....)
Noel has pledged personally to re-evaluate MC's position in the future in regards to trademark enforcement, and promises to be personally involved with all future oppositions.
This is huge, because what it means is that this is not likely to happen again in the future.

In return, we are respectfully hanging up our rifles and calling off our ongoing war efforts, and breathing a sigh of relief that this is finally over.

It was actually amazing to see what could be accomplished on a human-to-human level, without all of the lawyers present, stinking things up. Both parties got to air their grievances, and develop an understanding of each other's positions.
Don't get me wrong, we are not "Friends" all of the sudden, but after those walls were down, we were able to settle our differences with a mutual respect for each other's businesses, which was far more productive than lawyers trying to see who could fire the biggest missile.

I just wanted to share this information with you, and thank you all for getting behind this cause. Without the greater voice of the audio community, we may never have gotten this far. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to ask, as there is no gag-order in place and we are free to discuss this openly. The message we want to get across here, is this....
The world spoke, and Monster Cable listened, and we couldn't be happier with the results.
-Patrick Vitagliano

Also, Christina (my wife) will be posting later with more details, including a copy of the letter that Noel Lee sent to us, so you have the info from all sides. Again, thank you!

Wow its truly awesome that both sides have settled amicably before more resources and ill feelings persisted. It goes to show you the influence our readers and the reach of the internet has

 

[jinjuku]

Thanks Patrick. To everyone here, Monster wants you to know that we're seeing and hearing all the criticisms levelled against us -- from this ex-lawsuit and others -- and this year we're going to change things around, starting here.

Of course, it won't happen overnight. But we hope you'll give us another look later on. Thanks.

Hi Eric,

Would you care to comment on the current 'action' against a web development and design firm by the name of Monster Design Co. of Benicia, California?

Don't you get that by choosing the common word Monster that one is putting oneself in a really tough position simply due to commonality of said word?

I mean we are talking a web dev firm for pete's sake! Nothing short of MC going out of business will solve this insanity.

The trademark office and court system are partially to blame also.

 

[jamie2112]

Wow its truly awesome that both sides have settled amicably before more resources and ill feelings persisted. It goes to show you the influence our readers and the reach of the internet has

Yes it does doesn't it..... I am very pleased with the results of this campain..

 

[MonsterMiniGolf]

Quoting Eryk13...
"Regarding the quote above, I was hoping you could comment on exactly what Noel and Kevin thought their "grievances" were in this case. Did they really, truly believe that name dilution would happen with your business in the mix? Was their position always that these kind of lawsuits were appropriate, and did that remain their position thru your conversations with them?"



Eryk13,
I will indeed comment on that, and try not to bore you with legal jargon....
There are two ways to approach defending your marks;
1) Defending your mark against other confusingly similar marks.
2) Attempting to obtain what is called a "Famous Mark", which is an entirely different animal, which basically amounts to (and this is my novice interpretation of it) attempting to make a word (in this case, Monster) synonomous with a product or a company.

In other words, to achieve a "Famous Mark" with Monster, they would need to get the world to associate that word, primarily with their company, or entity, or product. (I think I got that right)
And if you are able to pull that off, (or in this case, if you are trying to pull that off) you'd then need to attack anyone using that word, or else it could be associated with other things, and negate your chance at a famous mark.

That having been said, after hearing their side, we agreed to disagree on whether they qualified for a famous mark or not. We felt that using a word that....
A) Had already been in existence for too long, and...
B) Was not only a noun, but also a verb, which increased the likelihood of it being used by EVERYONE who wanted to describe something larger than life...
It was our opinion that for these two reasons, they didn't have a credible chance at a "Famous Mark" with this particular word, and it was their opinion that they did.

In fairness, and from a point of objectivity, if you are indeed defending a famous mark, what they were doing was the right way to defend it. And again, we disagreed on whether or not they had a credible chance at a famous mark.

The most important thing that came out of this whole thing is this.....
Noel Lee has re-evaluated Monster Cable's position on the "Famous Mark" debate, which means that (if what they are saying is true....) future trademark defenses will be based on likelihood of confusion, rather than all things "Monster".
We will see over time whether actually do what they say they are going to do, but they have promised to do it.
This is what the world wanted.
I'm not suggesting that anyone embraces them with open arms, but change has to start somewhere, and they appear to have taken the first step.
I just got my *** kicked both financially and emotionally for the last year+ of my life, and I am a big enough man to come on this board with no gag-order, and no obligation to them whatsoever, and say that if they've really changed their MO, then the world is a better place.

Rather than speculate, we will wait, and watch their actions over the next few weeks, months, years. The proof will be in the actions, and they know the world is watching.
Remember, we never wanted to destroy them. Change is what we wanted, and change is what we were promised. So for now, let's accept their words, and evaluate their actions. Time will tell.
-Patrick Vitagliano

 

[jinjuku]

In other words, to achieve a "Famous Mark" with Monster, they would need to get the world to associate that word, primarily with their company, or entity, or product. (I think I got that right)

And if you are able to pull that off, (or in this case, if you are trying to pull that off) you'd then need to attack anyone using that word, or else it could be associated with other things, and negate your chance at a famous mark.

I can understand a famous mark: Xerox, Kleenex, Compaq, IBM, Toyota.

1st: These are not common dictionary, noun/verb names. They are distinct.

2nd. Monster Cable is producing a fairly mundane product, that lets face it, has a low cost of entry to start up a like firm. It's not like they are an engineering house. They simply produce cables to a standards body spec.

I think about the most intricate thing would be a design process for handling copper to interconnect coupling. Not something any Joe off the street can design, but it isn't rocket or brain science either.

Mr. Lee is living a pipe dream if he really thinks that 'Monster' will ever achieve Famous Mark status. It is diluted already due to 800 years of common use.

 

[MatthewB.]

Patrick a big congrats from me for finally having a "settlement" on this affair. I personally thought that you guys had a snowballs chance in he!! but with the support of sites like this one and others and the news media that one small company like yours finally had enough support behind it to make a difference. I was also pleased to hear that MC is going to re-evaluate how they pursue "legititimate claims". Only time will tell if Monster will actually go through with this and to those who work at MC, we are watching and waiting.

Now if only MC would institute a pricing policy so that they would be comparable with internet pricing and sites like Blue Jean Cables, then this also would lead to MC being able to redeem itself. And am overjoyed that you are getting your legal fees back, hope you and your wife buy a nice bottle of bubbly to celebrate.

 

[Eryk13]

I can understand a famous mark: Xerox, Kleenex, Compaq, IBM, Toyota.

1st: These are not common dictionary, noun/verb names. They are distinct.

2nd. Monster Cable is producing a fairly mundane product, that lets face it, has a low cost of entry to start up a like firm. It's not like they are an engineering house. They simply produce cables to a standards body spec.

I think about the most intricate thing would be a design process for handling copper to interconnect coupling. Not something any Joe off the street can design, but it isn't rocket or brain science either.

Mr. Lee is living a pipe dream if he really thinks that 'Monster' will ever achieve Famous Mark status. It is diluted already due to 800 years of common use.

Thanks for your response Patrick - I can't even begin to imagine how frustrating those conversations were. While its good that you both got to air your grievances, their "famous mark" stance would put me in a place to not even know how to argue against it. Its so ludicrous that I wouldn't know where to begin. There's no possible way they actually believed they could "famous mark" the word Monster.

Bottom line, its what we said it was the entire time - a tactic used by Monster to extort licensing fees from smaller companies unable to defend themselves. For Noel to suggest that he wasn't terribly familiar with these actions his lawyers were taking against other companies simply makes him look worse than he already does. I refuse to believe that he wasn't aware of what he was doing. He simply got enough public backlash that he had no choice but to change his company's ways. I'm offended he even suggested that. Had he come clean and state that they did it for the cash involved, and that they'd no longer participate in said activities, I'd actually have a mountain of respect for him. But we know that won't be happening...

Edit: And just because I'm eating one of their very, very tasty burgers, it would be like Red Robin trying to trademark everything that had the word "Red" in it. Amazing.
Spot on, sir. That about sums up my opinion.

 

[Adam]

Is there such thing as an "Infamous Mark"?

 

[Alex2507]

Is there such thing as an "Infamous Mark"?

Judas Cables

Adolf's Interconnects

 

[jamie2112]

Judas Cables

Adolf's Interconnects

Too funny there Pork Chop.......



I like the new nickname

 

[jamie2112]

Manson projectors
Ed Gein Audio
Jason Vorhees wire cutters

 

[Alex2507]

Elaina Bobbit Personal Groomer

 

[jamie2112]

Ouch that hurts just thinking about her....

 

[markw]

Is there such thing as an "Infamous Mark"?

Me in some states, but the statute of limitations has pretty much expired in most of them.

 

[KurtBJC]

Hey there, Christina and Patrick: good going!

I have said over and over again (yes, I'm a repetitive guy) that if someone would actually stand firm in one of these Monster trademark infringement cases, the whole Monster Cable trademark strategy would crumble. The problem with it from the get-go was that it was fragile -- you can only get so far with a legal strategy that rests upon the threats or the burdens of litigation that you can't actually expect to win. I figured that some day, one of the targets would decide to stand firm and go to trial on the trademark claims, and that when this happened, it would result in a US District Court decision which would effectively preclude Monster Cable from being able to make these arguments again.

What I did not imagine, however, was that someone could do this without actually having to go all the way to judgment. It turns out that the Internet is a powerful thing when it comes to spreading information, and where a few years ago litigation like this could be kept out of the public eye, that's no longer the case.

The peculiar thing about this--and I know that everyone is very angry at Monster Cable right now--is that this is actually a victory for BOTH sides. It's good for MMG, but it's also good for MC, and I'll explain why.

The Monster Cable trademark strategy never made good business sense. While Monster Cable may have some sidelines, its principal line of business is the sale of audio and video cable and connectivity products. While there might be something nifty about having "famous mark" rights in the word Monster, those rights are in no way essential to Monster Cable carrying on its primary business. If the famous mark strategy were successful (which I do not, for reasons others have already stated, believe it would be), what would be the actual economic value of the word "monster"? Not much, really. It might, indeed, have cost more to defend than it would be worth to own. The upshot is that Monster Cable was diverting resources from its core business to pursue trademark rights that it had little hope of acquiring and that would be worth very little if the pursuit were successful.

How Monster Cable got onto this peculiar trademark strategy is hard to say. Some combination of misjudgment and bad advice, likely. There were times when MC really acted as though it believed that it was somehow obligated to bring these sorts of challenges or lose its marks. But the diversion was never to its benefit, and had already cost Monster Cable a great deal of good will in the market--the Monster Vintage and Snow Monsters cases, among others, had inflicted serious harm upon MC's reputation.

If this is indeed the end not just of this dispute but of the strategy, MC will benefit enormously in terms of good will. Let's hope for everyone's sake that it truly is over.

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable

 

[TLS Guy]

Just thought I'd send everyone an update....

Well, the world has spoken and asked Monster Cable to basically "Put up or Shut up"....and (are you sitting down.....?) They listened.

We've been on the phone for about a week with Noel Lee and Kevin Lee, without the lawyers, and as of yesterday we signed an agreement which includes legal reimbursement, an apology, dropping their oppositions to our trademarks and allowing us to register them (without a license agreement), no gag-order, no canned public statements, and most importantly....
(And this is the one that EVERYONE wanted.....)
Noel has pledged personally to re-evaluate MC's position in the future in regards to trademark enforcement, and promises to be personally involved with all future oppositions.
This is huge, because what it means is that this is not likely to happen again in the future.

In return, we are respectfully hanging up our rifles and calling off our ongoing war efforts, and breathing a sigh of relief that this is finally over.

It was actually amazing to see what could be accomplished on a human-to-human level, without all of the lawyers present, stinking things up. Both parties got to air their grievances, and develop an understanding of each other's positions.
Don't get me wrong, we are not "Friends" all of the sudden, but after those walls were down, we were able to settle our differences with a mutual respect for each other's businesses, which was far more productive than lawyers trying to see who could fire the biggest missile.

I just wanted to share this information with you, and thank you all for getting behind this cause. Without the greater voice of the audio community, we may never have gotten this far. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to ask, as there is no gag-order in place and we are free to discuss this openly. The message we want to get across here, is this....
The world spoke, and Monster Cable listened, and we couldn't be happier with the results.
-Patrick Vitagliano

Also, Christina (my wife) will be posting later with more details, including a copy of the letter that Noel Lee sent to us, so you have the info from all sides. Again, thank you!

Here is the story on NPR.

You can hear an interview with Christina and Noel.

The most interesting thing to me is that agreement was reached after both sides sent their lawyers packing! Talk about high priced make work projects.

Anyhow many congratulations to you both.