Epson 7500 or Runco?

mperfct

mperfct

Audioholic Samurai
forgive me, but I kind of read the thread pretty quickly (although there is a lot of good info in here!)...but did you ever do a acoustical room design? Might be worth doing before wires and walls start flying around. Just a thought.
 
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parinshah

Audioholic
What is an acoustical room design? does that mean pre-planning everything with someone before wires go in?

I am supposed to meet my builders AV guy today, for the first time. We haven't poured concrete yet for the house so this is really early on. The pre-wiring is part of the house package. I want to see if he is willing to place the wiring exactly where I want them...and if he is willing to buy/install equipment that I want, which I don't think he usually sells. I prefer Espon projector, Axiom speakers, Carada screen....he sells Sony projectors, sonanace and Triad speakers, and Da-lite screens. I have my preference because i want the best bang for the buck. What he sells is good, but the speakers and screen will be more expensive.

Thanks for the info. This is a great forum to bounce ideas!
 
mperfct

mperfct

Audioholic Samurai
What is an acoustical room design? does that mean pre-planning everything with someone before wires go in?

Thanks for the info. This is a great forum to bounce ideas!
That is pretty much taking into account room dimensions and designing everything around audio performance. The room plays such an important part into acoustics, yet is the hardest thing to change. You can have a brilliant display in any room (nearly), but to have brilliant audio takes a lot more forethought, and you're at the right stage of the build for that.

Especially if you are considering room within a room construction, or staggered studs, appropriate room dimensions, double-sheetrock w/ green glue, etc. I wish I had a large space like you do so that I could have done some things to minimize mechanical transference of sound, but my space was pretty finite. (11' x 21' x 7.75')
 
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parinshah

Audioholic
Miscellaneous Questions

1) I spoke with my AV guy, this was my question:

I would like to have 3 tiers of lighting...one over the screen, one over the sofa and one over the pool area. We will have to decide how many lights per tier. I want these on a dimmer.
Also, would like sconsces and/or track lighting around the room with a dimmer aswell.

This was his response:
$1,620.00 (Includes wiring for all light fixtures and switches, recess cans, trims, and lamps are included, dimmers for all lights are included, sconce light, hanging light, and track light fixtures are not included).

Does this seem reasonable? Again, room is 28'x18', and 11' ceilings. Room have a pool table in back half so its a media/rec room combo.

2) They sell Sony, so would like to sell/install the HW10. I have read the Epson is better with sports though. If I go with a tad bit smaller screen, 100"
would that help with the sony?

3) Do I have to have cable boxes each room or can I have them all in one closet? Not sure if that is possible and how you would change channels.

4) I have a Denon 2805. Will that be adequate for a 7.1 or 7.2 system? Can I run 2 zones (second zone would be a pair of outdoor speakers) on while I am also running a 7.1/7.2 speakers? Will be either the Axiom on-walls + rears or the m60's + rears.

5) Is it better in this room to have 2 smaller subs placed in the room as opposed to one big sub? In my situation it would be 2 axioms EP350's or 1 EP500.

6) Best bang for the buck blu-ray player? Don't need a lot of bells and whistles.

7) Anyone want to buy a 70" rear projection DLP, Hitachi?

Lots of questions...hopefully someone has some answers!

8)
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
1) I spoke with my AV guy, this was my question:

I would like to have 3 tiers of lighting...one over the screen, one over the sofa and one over the pool area. We will have to decide how many lights per tier. I want these on a dimmer.
Also, would like sconsces and/or track lighting around the room with a dimmer aswell.

This was his response:
$1,620.00 (Includes wiring for all light fixtures and switches, recess cans, trims, and lamps are included, dimmers for all lights are included, sconce light, hanging light, and track light fixtures are not included).

Does this seem reasonable? Again, room is 28'x18', and 11' ceilings. Room have a pool table in back half so its a media/rec room combo.

2) They sell Sony, so would like to sell/install the HW10. I have read the Epson is better with sports though. If I go with a tad bit smaller screen, 100"
would that help with the sony?

3) Do I have to have cable boxes each room or can I have them all in one closet? Not sure if that is possible and how you would change channels.

4) I have a Denon 2805. Will that be adequate for a 7.1 or 7.2 system? Can I run 2 zones (second zone would be a pair of outdoor speakers) on while I am also running a 7.1/7.2 speakers? Will be either the Axiom on-walls + rears or the m60's + rears.

5) Is it better in this room to have 2 smaller subs placed in the room as opposed to one big sub? In my situation it would be 2 axioms EP350's or 1 EP500.

6) Best bang for the buck blu-ray player? Don't need a lot of bells and whistles.

7) Anyone want to buy a 70" rear projection DLP, Hitachi?

Lots of questions...hopefully someone has some answers!

8)
1: Sounds reasonable to me. Guys got to make money.

4: I believe you can run 5.x + zone 2 or 7.x only. You might need to consider a stereo receiver or integrated amp for your outside speakers and a source switcher. This could answer question 3.

5: I would look at the AV123 MFW-15 X 2. You will have to play with room placement.

6: PS3 makes for a good BR player (and you can game).
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
1)\$1,620.00 (Includes wiring for all light fixtures and switches, recess cans, trims, and lamps are included, dimmers for all lights are included, sconce light, hanging light, and track light fixtures are not included).

Does this seem reasonable? Again, room is 28'x18', and 11' ceilings. Room have a pool table in back half so its a media/rec room combo.
Depends on how many actual fixtures are going in place, but it seems in line with industry standards. You aren't getting gouged here, but paying typical rates. It can take about an hour per light to install, plus the cost/overhead/profit of the fixture itself.

I would likely check on them installing the other lights which you need to provide to them as well.

2) They sell Sony, so would like to sell/install the HW10. I have read the Epson is better with sports though. If I go with a tad bit smaller screen, 100" would that help with the sony?
The Sony really is an excellent projector and you might see about 5% image quality difference between different models. I would compare it very closely to the JVC, and it may have a better image than the Epson 6500UB, but the Epson can get brighter - simple as that. To combat this, I would go with a higher gain screen is possible. 1.4 at least.

3) Do I have to have cable boxes each room or can I have them all in one closet? Not sure if that is possible and how you would change channels.
RF universal remotes or some sort of control system could allow you to centrally locate all your gear. Then, HDMI or component video (or both) would need to be run to the displays in different locations. If done properly, you could have a single cable box shared between displays. Don't remember how many displays there are.

4) I have a Denon 2805. Will that be adequate for a 7.1 or 7.2 system? Can I run 2 zones (second zone would be a pair of outdoor speakers) on while I am also running a 7.1/7.2 speakers? Will be either the Axiom on-walls + rears or the m60's + rears.
I believe the 2805 is a 7.1 receiver with 2 or 3 zones. If you are running 7 speakers, then you will need an external amplifier to drive the zone 2 speakers.

5) Is it better in this room to have 2 smaller subs placed in the room as opposed to one big sub? In my situation it would be 2 axioms EP350's or 1 EP500.
A couple of smaller subs may make sense, and I would recommend that you do your homework on subwoofers & pricing - you may find better subwoofers out there for your money. Matching subs to a single brand isn't nearly as important as matching speakers.

6) Best bang for the buck blu-ray player? Don't need a lot of bells and whistles.
Panasonic BD35 (or one of the new upcoming models I expect) or the PS3. The PS3 has a TON of bells and whistles and is very reliable. But, Panasonic has been putting forth top shelf BD players for a while now.

7) Anyone want to buy a 70" rear projection DLP, Hitachi?
Five dollahs!
 
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parinshah

Audioholic
Thanks!

What is a good bang for the buck amp? Again, I don't need whooping power, just good music playing while we entertain in the backyard or go for a swim...

Or is there a receiver around $1k-$1500 that can take care of 7.1 in zone 1 and zone 2?

I appreciate all your help
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Thanks!

What is a good bang for the buck amp? Again, I don't need whooping power, just good music playing while we entertain in the backyard or go for a swim...

Or is there a receiver around $1k-$1500 that can take care of 7.1 in zone 1 and zone 2?

I appreciate all your help
For second zone audio I have actually used the Audiosource AMP100 which is less than 100 bucks on eBay and works perfectly well for non-critical listening in a zone 2 environment.

http://cgi.ebay.com/AudioSource-AMP100-Two-Channel-Amplifier-2-Pair-Stereo_W0QQitemZ370137213688QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item370137213688&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:1|39:1|240:1318

This will work fine with your 2805 on the zone 2 output.

Add a RF remote and you can go outside and control your receiver from there without issues, as well as pick, choose, and control sources without ever having to go back inside!
 
Gaigebacca

Gaigebacca

Audioholic
I just got an Epson 7500UB for my father-in-law's HT setup, for ~$4200... and it comes with an extra bulb, cable cover, and a mounting bracket (a nice telescoping one at that too)

I honestly would say bang for the buck, it is the best projector out there... we have it coupled with a Carada 1.4 gain 110" screen, and it is a GORGEOUS picture... Cars actually has that 3D POP to it that would would expect from a animated Blu-Ray (we are running a PS3 as well).

I would whole heartedly say go with the 7500UB.
 
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parinshah

Audioholic
projector placement questions

Interesting...I just read this on Projectorreview.com and doing the head to head comparison:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/home-cinema-6500ub/competitors.php

Basically it says to go with the Epson 6500 or the JVC's (Panasonic runs well in there against the Epson aswell. It doesn't tackle the 6500 vs. the 7500, though.

Few questions:

1) We are still in the pre-construction arena. If I am sitting 15' back and get a 106" - 110" screen, assuming I havent picked out my projector yet where should I have the electrician place the projector pre-wiring? If i get the Espson, Sony, JVC..etc...Does it matter where I place the prewiring on the ceiling or are they all the same in placement?

2) I will have 11' ceilings in this room (again...28'x18'x11'). Will a projector be able to come down far enough from the ceiling to place a picture tightly on the 110" screen?

3) Is the Epson 7500 worth the extra money over the 6500? How about the extra $$$ for the JVC? I will watch some sports and have some ambient light during the games, if that makes any difference.

4) For the screen, I believe Brilliant white Carada was recommended (1.78 to 1). But the Projectorreview.com likes the HC grey. Just want to make sure that with some ambient light I better go with the Brilliant White, correct?

I chose 106" - 110" because that is what projectorreview.com recommends as a max for the epson 6500.

Thanks for everyone's help!
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Basically it says to go with the Epson 6500 or the JVC's (Panasonic runs well in there against the Epson aswell. It doesn't tackle the 6500 vs. the 7500, though.
The 6500 & 7500 are the same model, but the 7500 is in black, carries a longer warranty, and is only available through custom dealers - which means there is a premium placed on the exact same level of performance.

1) We are still in the pre-construction arena. If I am sitting 15' back and get a 106" - 110" screen, assuming I havent picked out my projector yet where should I have the electrician place the projector pre-wiring? If i get the Espson, Sony, JVC..etc...Does it matter where I place the prewiring on the ceiling or are they all the same in placement?
You want to use the Projection Calculator for every projector you are considering located at www.projectorcentral.com - Find your projectors of choice, then go to the calculator, and you can find the range of LENS to screen distances.

Typically, for about 110" you are from 11 to 22 feet or so with super zoom projectors.

I would recommend that you go right around 16-17 feet for wiring as the entry point for the connections is at the back of the projector, and the measurements for zoom range are from the lens to the screen.

Also - make sure they pull conduit to the projector!

2) I will have 11' ceilings in this room (again...28'x18'x11'). Will a projector be able to come down far enough from the ceiling to place a picture tightly on the 110" screen?
You may need to extend the projector down from the ceiling on a pole mount depending on how far up/down the wall your screen is, but I wouldn't expect you to need to lower it to much.

3) Is the Epson 7500 worth the extra money over the 6500? How about the extra $$$ for the JVC? I will watch some sports and have some ambient light during the games, if that makes any difference.
The JVC is a better overall home theater projector by most reports. But, I haven't heard about it being the brightest out there. If I had a smaller room, with a smaller screen (100" or less) and it was entirely dedicated to home theater, and I had a pretty significant desire for perfection, I would likely go with the JVC. But, for top shelf product which has both brightness, and performance, and about 95% or more of the best quality that JVC can offer, I would choose the Epson. In almost all cases I would choose the Epson over the JVC for its flexibility. I would never choose the 7500.

4) For the screen, I believe Brilliant white Carada was recommended (1.78 to 1). But the Projectorreview.com likes the HC grey. Just want to make sure that with some ambient light I better go with the Brilliant White, correct?
There is no reason to go with a grey screen if you are controlling your ambient light to keep it off the screen directly and are typically watching SPORTS when you do have those ambient lights on. Grey screens can help with contrast of low contrast projectors, and when you do critical viewing of dark movies in less than controlled environments. But, with the lights out, grey screens do not improve contrast at all and you lose the extra punch that a slight gain pure white screen can offer.

I chose 106" - 110" because that is what projectorreview.com recommends as a max for the epson 6500.
From 15'? That is small. No matter how I look at it, I would not recommend a screen less than 120" and I would likely go closer to 133". The Epson has modes that can handle that size with some ambient light, and in 'best' mode will look excellent with a 1.4 gain screen in the dark.

Keep in mind, from that review, the person writing it is a home theater perfectionist, yet does not have dark walls in their setup. So, for CRITICAL viewing and 'perfect' results, that is when they recommend the 106" size and grey screen. If you are building new, then go with dark carpet, and dark paint (ceiling included!) and then go with the size that is appropriate for your seating distance. Keep in mind a 1.4 gain over a 1.0 gain offers 40% increase in perceived brightness on the same screen size. So, adding 20% to the screen size will still look perfect.

I think people are often scared of going with the size that's appropriate for their viewing distance, then regret it very quickly. They either go to small, or they try to fill an entire wall. If you want to do home theater, then I would start with the standards that most theaters work with.
 
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parinshah

Audioholic
Man...you are the best! Thank you SO much for answering every question in detail.

My AV guy won't be selling epson, so I will have to install it after we close on the house. I think I will prewire appropriately, and then buy products once we close. I will then have the Magnolia guys at best buy install everything, because I will be buying products from different stores (can't find the epson, reeiver and speakers i want all at the same store). I hope they don't have a hard time with installation of the projector off a 11' ceiling.

I can really go up to 130" for the screen sitting 15' back, with the Epson! i got nervous reading the projectorreview.com. On a previous thread many people advised me to go as big as I can, but this review threw me a curveball.

Thanks again!
 
Gaigebacca

Gaigebacca

Audioholic
There are differences between the 6500 and 7500 other than price... the 7500 comes with an extra bulb as well as mounting bracket... it also has a dynamic iris that can push the contrast down to 75k:1 or so... it also comes precolor calibrated from the ISF, and has more advanced calibration features on it than the 6500. (Yes it also comes in black rather than silver) and I cannot remember exactly if the 6500 is compatible with external panamorphic lenses or not... the 7500 is.

But, I am sure that the 6500 is still a fantastic projector, but I personally feel that the 7500 is worth the price difference... but thats why it is called an opinion... It isnt "fact" and just my preferences about it.
 
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parinshah

Audioholic
Thanks...you guys are ALL great! I think I have most of this figured out!!!
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
There are differences between the 6500 and 7500 other than price... the 7500 comes with an extra bulb as well as mounting bracket... it also has a dynamic iris that can push the contrast down to 75k:1 or so... it also comes precolor calibrated from the ISF, and has more advanced calibration features on it than the 6500. (Yes it also comes in black rather than silver) and I cannot remember exactly if the 6500 is compatible with external panamorphic lenses or not... the 7500 is.
Didn't know about the spare lamp/mounting bracket. But, you can get a 3 year lamp warranty for $100 (Projector People) and a nice mounting bracket for under $150 (Chief/Peerless).

The actual projector itself (except the case) is 100% identical to the 6500UB though. 75,000:1 contrast, dynamic iris, etc. The pre purchase ISF calibration is a good thing, but the 6500UB is already getting high praise for nearly being dead on out of the box, so it is of minimal gain. There are no advanced calibration features which the 7500UB has that the 6500UB does not.

Both are anamorphic lens ready. (they are the same!)

The case color is different... yup.

But, I am sure that the 6500 is still a fantastic projector, but I personally feel that the 7500 is worth the price difference... but thats why it is called an opinion... It isnt "fact" and just my preferences about it.
It is the exact same projector - so the opinion then becomes whether or not the price difference is worth it for pre-ISF calibration and a free lamp.

Oh yeah - and one year more on the warranty I believe.
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
Speaking as an ISF trained calibrator, I'd go with a ISF certified display every time over one without it. Having separate calibrations for night and day viewing is a must.

In the case of the Epson, you're getting these features for far less money than some of the ridiculously priced brands that start with an "R".
 

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