PLS HELP: Calibration of SAMSUNG LN40A650

D

dagarshali

Enthusiast
Hi Guys,
This forum has been extremely helpful in the past with my home theater receiver calibration. I recently bought a Samsung LN40A650 a couple of days ago and then looked at one of threads here, which directed to Curt Palme's guid to calibration.

I had the AVIA DVD that I used for my home theater calibration and I bought a Spyder2express as recommended by the guide.

I was able to somehow adjust the the grey scale and the adjusted luminance curve fell on the target curve. I used CHCFR software.

However, I was not clear on a few things.
  1. Contrast
    I put the 100 IRE window and adjusted contrast and the guide tells to adjust constrast looking for 30-40ftl. When I did that, the image looked very dull. On further researching on the web, I found that for LCD's, the recommended value is between 50-60. What is the value for this?
  2. Brightness
    I followed the guide, which says the following

    * Set the contrast as in the previous section and record the Y value (light output) on the 100 IRE window pattern.
    * (Spyder2 users only) Increase the sensor read time temporarily to 2000ms by going in the "Measures -> Sensor -> Configure" option.
    * Display the 10 IRE window pattern.
    * Adjust the brightness so that the Y reading of the 10 IRE window pattern measures as close as possible to 0.65% of the Y reading of the 100 IRE white pattern. For example: At 100 IRE we measured a Y value of 47.387. 0.65% of this is 47.387 x 0.0065, or a Y value of 0.308. We would therefore adjust the brightness until the Y value reads 0.308.
    * This sets your gamma at 2.2 for the the 10 IRE window pattern which is typically the perfect gamma value as explained previously. In most cases this will be the correct setting for brightness. If your display has an unusually high or low gamma or a non-linear gamma, this method may give you the wrong result such that you can't see the 2% or 4% PLUGE bars (black clipping) or the black background is far too grey. In that case, adjust the brightness setting using the traditional method described previously using the PLUGE pattern.
  3. GreyScale
    It recommended that I display 80IRE and adjust the RGB HighEnd till the x=0.313 and y=0.329. It then recommends to use 30IRE and adjust RGB LowEnd till x=0.313 and y=0.329

    On my samsung, I did this on white balance section which has RGB OFFSET and RGB GAIN. the manual tells that RGB OFFSET is for dark side and RGB GAIN for bright side. Have I done this correctly?

    After this, I used the Grey Scale measurement from 0 IRE to 100 IRE. The graph was still not falling on the target line and hene kept adjusting the gamma and when I set gamma to -3, the grey scale looked perfect.
  4. Primary and Secondary color
    The guide says
    # Cue up your AVS HD 709 test disc and skip to the 100% white window pattern by selecting "10% Grayscale" -> "100% Gray window". 100% means that the window is at 100 IRE. Write down the Y (Luminance or brightness) reading as seen by the sensor:
    # Skip to the 100% Red window pattern by selecting "100% Saturated Colors" -> "100% Red window".
    # Adjust the colour control on your display until the Y reading is 21% of the 100% white window reading measured earlier. For example, if the Y value earlier was 39.012 as seen above, then 21% would be 39.012 x 0.21 = 8.193.

    I did that and I followed a similar procedure for Tint which called for using a 100% Cyan window and set it until The SDTV - REC 601 (NTSC) cyan target is x=0.231 / y=0.326 . Here, I was never able to set it to this number, no matter what I did. What am I doing wrong here?

    Finally it said to measure the color values for RGBCMYW and adjust them individually for the standard values. Samsung has Color space and I can only adjust this if I pick Custom Color Space and when I do that, I have one line where i can pick one of RGBCMY and below that is three sliders for R,G and B. How do I adjust these sliders for the standard values. I adjust them randomly till the X and Y were standard values and the color was horrible.

    I would really appreciate if you could help me with this calibration.

Also, when I watch the HD channels, they look great. But, the non-HD channels are very pixelated. And, when we watch a movie on these channels, my wife keeps telling me that the image doesn't look like movie, instead it looks very artificial/ like soap serials.

Again, sorry for this really long posting and hope that you awesome guys will help me out with this calibration.

Thanks a bunch in advance,
Vishwa
 
ratso

ratso

Full Audioholic
well dag, i am by no means an expert or ISF guy, but i have had good luck calibrating my samsung LN46A550 so let me see if i can help any.
#1. i think the normal contrast range for LCD's is 30-40ftl's. at least that's what i have read in other forums, and some ISF guys that wrote in seem to confirm this. i might add that as an aside (and i think the guide mentions this, but i may have read it somewhere else) that a fair amount of people DON'T LIKE a calibrated picture, at least at first because it looks 'too dark'. this is a result of manufacturers turning up the brightness and color saturation to blowtorch intensities to catch your eye so you want to buy their tv's. unfortunately, most of us have grown used to these (incorrect) setups. i recommend calibrating your picture and watching it for a week before making any changes so you can get used to the darker, more 'film like' settings.
#2. brightness - you didn't indicate any problems here, it went ok i guess?
#3. greyscale - RGB gains is for the high end, use it to adjust the 80% screen. then use RGB offsets for the low end, 30% screen. after adjusting both to get the bars as close to 100% as possible, i then run a greyscale measurement. i then look at the RGB graph, because for me it is easier to read. concentrate on getting the Delta E measurements (bottom purple line) under 3 for all readings except the 10% and 100% (the lightmeter doesn't read these correctly - i have an eye one. i'm not sure how accurate a spyder is. it might not also pick up the 20% correctly). i also look at the separate RGB colors on the top part of the graph and adjust accordingly. for instance, if the red is a little low in the 20-40% areas, and the blue is a little high, i will go back to my 30% screen and bump the red RGB offset up one, and the blue down one. i will then repeat the greyscale measurements, and keep repeating this until it's dialed in. i try to never mess with the RGB gains if i don't have to, using mostly the RGB offsets because the gains make huge changes across the greyscale, and the offsets make smaller adjustments that are easier to dial in.
#4. colors - you want to use the HDTV REC709 numbers, not the SDTV numbers. dial in your color and tint controls. then you can dial in your primary/secondary's. here is where the guide fails us a little bit (it doesn't give Y values for the colors) and i refer to this excellent thread that really helped me:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536

although even this gave me problems for a while. first as stated in post #829, the samsung has an excellent CMS built into it, but it works a little strange. first go to custom color space and pick the primary/secondary color you want to adjust. you will then see the RGB sliders. if you have picked a primary color, you adjust the slider for that color to adjust Y (if you picked red as a color, you slide the red slider and watch Y in the HCFR window). to adjust Y for secondary colors, you adjust the 2 sliders equally up or down to adjust Y that make up the secondary color (for cyan, slide G and B equally, for yellow R and G, magenta R and B). dial in your Y values first when dialing in a color, then x and y.to move x and y, use a combo of all three sliders while watching the software to see which moves x and y and in what direction. remember to make sure you're not screwing up the Y value while adjusting x and y, but it's really more intuitive and easy then it sounds. when you have the color dialed in, then move to the next color. follow the order of the chart below for first dialing in primary then secondary colors. red is already done (you fixed it with the 'color' control adjustment). here is the color chart for HDTV:

Rec. 709 (High Definition)
----x-------y--------Y
R---0.6400--0.3300---0.2126 (the Y valures are percent multipliers)
G---0.3000--0.6000---0.7152
B---0.1500--0.0600---0.0722
Y---0.4193--0.5053---0.9278
C---0.2246--0.3287---0.7874
M---0.3209--0.1542---0.2848
W---0.3127--0.329----1.0

you do not need to do white. so to explain the above:


as i said red is done, so start with green. the x and y values are listed (x=0.3000, y= 0.6000) so adjust for these, but first dial in Y for green. so the first thing is to use the Y number you had for 100% white. lets say it is 112.3. so multiply that by the Y number listed for green above (112.3 x 0.7152 = 80.316 - this is your Y number for green). do the same for all colors in order. how close should you get? according to the guy who wrote the above thread "Using xyY as a metric, then +-0.004 xy and +-5% Y would be a reasonable set of tolerances." good luck getting to .004! but i have to say i dialed in my samsung pretty damn close, and i can't believe how good it looks. but i must again warn you, it doesn't look much like a tv - it has a warmer and yes darker more film like look. once you get used to it, i don't think you'll go back. hope all this helps cuz my fingers hurt from all this typing.
 
ratso

ratso

Full Audioholic
ps. dag, to repay me for the above please let me know what you think of your samsung after you get it dialed in. i am thinking about moving my samsung upstairs and getting the 46" version of your tv to replace it - i am really impressed with these new samsungs. hope you like yours :D
 
E

EJ1

Audioholic Chief
I used these settings on my LN52A650 with amazing results. Other features such as AMP can be set to your liking.

Movie Mode: Warm-1

White Balance
Offset
R: 28
G: 25
B: 21
Gain
R: 25
G: 25
B: 29

Picture Settings
Backlight = 3
Contrast = 100
Brightness = 43
Color = 50
Sharpness = 10
Tint = 50/50
Gamma = -1

Color Space
Red
R = 30
G = 0
B = 1
Green
R = 26
G = 46
B = 0
Blue
R = 9
G = 0
B = 41
Yellow
R = 60
G = 48
B = 0
Cyan
R = 30
G = 47
B = 56
Magenta
R = 38
G = 0
B = 58
 
ratso

ratso

Full Audioholic
while it is tempting to simply use someone else's settings to make things easy, it doesn't usually work out too well i have found (if it did, there wouldn't really be any need to actually pay for any of this equipment or hire ISF calibration services would there?). too many variable involved, not the least of which is fluctuation between manufacturing tolerances in tv's. but go ahead and try it - you can always put in the settings and run a greyscale and colorscale and see how the tolerances are. and if it even gets you close so you can just do some minor tweaking, that is also a help.
 
D

dagarshali

Enthusiast
Hi Ratso,
Thanks a tonne for the detailed response. I haven't had a chance to calibrate the system as I had to return my spyder2. Apparently, eye one display 2 is far better than spyder2.

About the setting the colors for the 709 pattern. I am using AVIA DVD(which is a 601 standard) on my oppo which upscales to 1080p. So, do I stil use 709 standard or should I be using 601 standard? Also, can you tell me something about setting backlight and gamma as well. It looks like contrast and backlight go hand in hand. so what backlight do i need to set for doing the contrast adjustment.

Cheers,
Vishwa
 
D

dagarshali

Enthusiast
EJ1,
I started calibrating only after reading that articles that you have referred me to. The article says use HD for Blue ray and HD DVD and rec 601 for regular DVD. But, it doesn't say anything about the display device. What should it be for LCD + standard DVD? REC 601 or 709.

Thanks,
Vishwa
 
E

EJ1

Audioholic Chief
If you're using a standard DVD, I'd use REC 601 even though it upscales. I used the DVE BD and 709 when I calibrated.
 
ratso

ratso

Full Audioholic
woops sorry misunderstood that point. i would agree with ej. i used the 709 settings but was using a blue ray disc to calibrate.
 
ratso

ratso

Full Audioholic
also i am pretty sure (maybe more experienced calibrators like ej could confirm) that backlight shouldn't interfere with your contrast settings, so you can just use your contrast settings to calibrate and then turn your backlight up more during the day and down at night should you wish to correct for daytime/nighttime viewing. do i have this straight,anyone? i personally calibrated in the darkest room possible and do not change my settings for daytime. the new ISF certified sets have a seperate daytime and nighttime ISF calibrated settings built in.
 
E

EJ1

Audioholic Chief
also i am pretty sure (maybe more experienced calibrators like ej could confirm) that backlight shouldn't interfere with your contrast settings, so you can just use your contrast settings to calibrate and then turn your backlight up more during the day and down at night should you wish to correct for daytime/nighttime viewing. do i have this straight,anyone? i personally calibrated in the darkest room possible and do not change my settings for daytime. the new ISF certified sets have a seperate daytime and nighttime ISF calibrated settings built in.
I believe you are correct. The backlight won't affect the measured contrast ratio because when you decrease the backlight, the dark (and light) areas of the image get darker at the same time and rate. I could be wrong though.
 
D

dagarshali

Enthusiast
Hi Ratso,
I tried and followed your procedure.. I am not sure what to do to make the gamma come close to 2.2.

the backlight was set to 6 and all the modifiers like dynamic contrast and 120hz processing were turned off. I am using I1 display 2 probe with CHCFR software.

The gamma is set to +2. Also, when I try to set the brightness by taking it .65% of 100IRE on a 10 IRE screen, I have to set the brightness to high values (close to like 55). But on the other hand if i use blacker than black bars and adjust, the brigtness setting comes to like 43 or so.

As you can see the delta E is very hight for upto 20IRE. Does it mean that the instrument is not that reliable at these low lights.

Hope to hear from you guys and adjust this on my tv.

You can find all the plots in this link
http://picasaweb.google.com/dagarshali/CALIBRATION#


Cheers
 
ratso

ratso

Full Audioholic
i would think that +2 is too high for your gamma - mine is set at -1 for night, although 0 was okay too. i would start there, try recalibrating at 0 gamma and see if your baseline is closer to 2.2. then run a greyscale and try the rest of your calibrations. the rest of your calibrations don't look SO bad - looking at your RGB color measures (remember to throw out the readings for 10% down, the meter isn't really accurate for these and you can't really see it anyways) your 20% tells me you need to go down on the low end for blue and up on the low end for red. remember to use the 30% white screen and use the offset controls. bump up the red one step, bump down the blue one step run greyscale and repeat until dialed in.
 
ratso

ratso

Full Audioholic
to further clarify, your gamma control doesn't have to be PERFECT or right at 2.2 to start. try bumping down your gamma one notch, then run a greyscale and look at the gamma graph to see how it affected it. then go down one more notch, run another greyscale, etc. just get it in the ballpark around 2.2 and the rest you should be able to correct with the rest of the calibration process. once it's around 2.2 then start a new calibration from the start. you should be able to get close to 2.2 but you'll never get it exact, close enough is close enough.
 
G

gus6464

Audioholic Samurai
I used to following settings for a 46A650 and the set looks beautiful.

TV Watching
Back light 5
Contrast 92
Brightness 45 4
Sharpness 17
Color 50
Tint 60/40
BlackAdj off
DynContr off
gamma 0
ColorSpace Auto
Whitebalance N/A
FleshTone -5
EdgeEnh off
ColorTone cool
ScreenSize JustScan
DigitalNoise off
FilmMode auto
AutoMotionP low

Table B
Roffset Goffset Boffset Rgain Ggain Bgain
25 27 26 23 28 24
Table A
Red Green blue Yellow Cyan Magnenta
Red 50 42 0 48 36 41
Green 0 50 12 52 50 11
Blue 5 0 5 0 50 60

BD 1080p/24 (PS3)
Back light 3
Contrast 92
Brightness 44
Sharpness 17
Color 50
Tint 51/49
BlackAdj off
DynContr off
gamma-1
ColorSpace A
Whitebalance B
FleshTone 0
EdgeEnh off
ColorTone warm2
ScreenSize JustScan
DigitalNoise off
FilmMode auto
AutoMotionP off

Table B
Roffset Goffset Boffset Rgain Ggain Bgain
25 27 26 23 28 24
Table A
Red Green blue Yellow Cyan Magnenta
Red 50 42 0 48 36 41
Green 0 50 12 52 50 11
Blue 5 0 5 0 50 60
 
F

fireskyer

Audiophyte
@ratso
first go to custom color space and pick the primary/secondary color you want to adjust. you will then see the RGB sliders. if you have picked a primary color, you adjust the slider for that color to adjust Y (if you picked red as a color, you slide the red slider and watch Y in the HCFR window). to adjust Y for secondary colors, you adjust the 2 sliders equally up or down to adjust Y that make up the secondary color (for cyan, slide G and B equally, for yellow R and G, magenta R and B). dial in your Y values first when dialing in a color, then x and y.to move x and y, use a combo of all three sliders while watching the software to see which moves x and y and in what direction. remember to make sure you're not screwing up the Y value while adjusting x and y, but it's really more intuitive and easy then it sounds. when you have the color dialed in, then move to the next color. follow the order of the chart below for first dialing in primary then secondary colors. red is already done (you fixed it with the 'color' control adjustment). here is the color chart for HDTV:

Sorry ratso i dont get it ....

first in the colour space menue you have the colors:

red green blue yellow cyan magenta

and there are 3 sliders for all different colors:

red green and blue

youwrite :

if you picked red as a color, you slide the red slider and watch Y in the HCFR window)
if i pick red which slider ( i have three red green and blue) i have to choose to get an effect for the Y in the hcfr window?

and if i done this ... you write:

then x and y.to move x and y, use a combo of all three sliders while watching the software to see which moves x and y and in what direction. remember to make sure you're not screwing up the Y value while adjusting x and y, but it's really more intuitive and easy then it sounds.
it's hookey isn't it...

i calibrate the y sliders and then if the y sliders are correct, then i have to slide with all three sliders for each colour?.


i said so i dont get it...

Ps: sorry my english is very well
 
F

fireskyer

Audiophyte
could somebody help ???


it might be very helpfully if sb can give me an answer.
 
ratso

ratso

Full Audioholic
could somebody help ???


it might be very helpfully if sb can give me an answer.
pm sent. okay WTF this thing says i can't enter a reply less than 10 characters, so this should do it. *sheesh*
 

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