What makes Pioneer's Kuro plasmas have deeper blacks than other plasmas?

[rekced]

I have noticed that on plasma displays, the higher the contrast ratios usually just means the deeper the darkest possible black will be. The brightness of most of the panels I see are roughly the same except for Pioneer, which has slightly dimmer whites than say, LG or Panasonic. I assume this mostly has to do with the types of gas that is used to achieve the maximum brightness within the pixel.

What I'm wondering about more is the black level. I was told that Pioneer uses a special filter in their panels that is unlike anything being used by any another brand. It was described a a physical filter and not like a digital filter effect. A rep from Panasonic said it is most likely to do with their electronics, but he wasn't sure at all. All he knew was that Pioneer had plans to start buying Panasonic glass in the near future (if they haven't started already).


Just kinda wondering what exactly makes Pioneer look different in that way. Blacks that can supposedly disappear in a dark room and whites that aren't capable of pushing so hard even on the vivid setting. I like all of the characteristics about their TVs, I'm just curious how they do it exactly..

 

[annunaki]

Pioneer's black levels are due to a number fo different reasons. The overall cell structure is deeper (i.e. more expensive to produce), high quality glass & filters, excellent processing, etc.

 

[Jeepers]

I have noticed that on plasma displays, the higher the contrast ratios usually just means the deeper the darkest possible black will be. The brightness of most of the panels I see are roughly the same except for Pioneer, which has slightly dimmer whites than say, LG or Panasonic. I assume this mostly has to do with the types of gas that is used to achieve the maximum brightness within the pixel.

What I'm wondering about more is the black level. I was told that Pioneer uses a special filter in their panels that is unlike anything being used by any another brand. It was described a a physical filter and not like a digital filter effect. A rep from Panasonic said it is most likely to do with their electronics, but he wasn't sure at all. All he knew was that Pioneer had plans to start buying Panasonic glass in the near future (if they haven't started already).


Just kinda wondering what exactly makes Pioneer look different in that way. Blacks that can supposedly disappear in a dark room and whites that aren't capable of pushing so hard even on the vivid setting. I like all of the characteristics about their TVs, I'm just curious how they do it exactly..

Some explanation on the Pioneer UK site; I am sure the same can be found on the US site.
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/black/products/kuro2007/technology.html


Basically what Annunaki answerred.

 

[raypal45]

Pioneer plasma

Don't know why Pioneer claims that they have deeper levels of black when their plasma panels are made by Panasonic! I have asked many techs and we all agree that we cannot see the difference in real watching situations. I suspect that many audio-video reviewers go for the snob appeal of the more expensive display.

 

[annunaki]

Remember that the reviews are done in a completely darkened room with very high quality light meters. In a completely black room, black level differences can be fairly obvious.

As for Panasonic constructing the panels, there has been much discussion from Pioneer about this. They are made specifically to Pioneer specs and Pioneer still does a majority of the actual manufacturing process.

 

[bandphan]

Don't know why Pioneer claims that they have deeper levels of black when their plasma panels are made by Panasonic! I have asked many techs and we all agree that we cannot see the difference in real watching situations. I suspect that many audio-video reviewers go for the snob appeal of the more expensive display.

Panasonic has zero to do with pioneers video processing

 

[The Dukester]

As for Panasonic constructing the panels, there has been much discussion from Pioneer about this. They are made specifically to Pioneer specs and Pioneer still does a majority of the actual manufacturing process.

My understanding is that the current generation of Kuro displays are still made completely by Pioneer. They have a deal with Pannasonic to make their glass for the next gen displays. They will be made to Pioneer's specs.

 

[rekced]

Panasonic has zero to do with pioneers video processing

So you believe the main difference comes from the electronics and not some kind of "deeper cell" (new lingo to me in this thread) or some kind of filter that makes the light from the panel be more restricted to produce a more controlled black level. I'm just trying to understand. If you have more information about what you just said I would be very grateful to learn more in depth.

My understanding is that the current generation of Kuro displays are still made completely by Pioneer. They have a deal with Pannasonic to make their glass for the next gen displays. They will be made to Pioneer's specs.

That is exactly what I have heard, except the part about them being made to Pioneer's specs.

 

[bandphan]

So you believe the main difference comes from the electronics and not some kind of "deeper cell" (new lingo to me in this thread) or some kind of filter that makes the light from the panel be more restricted to produce a more controlled black level. I'm just trying to understand. If you have more information about what you just said I would be very grateful to learn more in depth.


Its a big part of it, along with cell structure, glass, ect..


That is exactly what I have heard, except the part about them being made to Pioneer's specs.

Pannys factory has been contracted by pioneer for work, just as with sharp for their new lcds, just like sammy and sony have done, just as pioneer did with nec

 

[The Dukester]

So you believe the main difference comes from the electronics and not some kind of "deeper cell" (new lingo to me in this thread) or some kind of filter that makes the light from the panel be more restricted to produce a more controlled black level. I'm just trying to understand. If you have more information about what you just said I would be very grateful to learn more in depth.QUOTE]

Pioneer Kuros have a deeper cell, which is a pixel, therby holding more gas. They have achieved near zero idle when there is no signal, which means the screen is black. In a dark room, the screen on others still emits light because their is more electricity going to the pixels at idle. This helps them acheive more brightness because they are already somewhat "lit". Pioneer is able to have near zero idle while overcoming the need to have that minimal charge to acheive the brightness. Blacker blacks and brighter whites give more contrast.

The new Kuros also have eliminated the outter glass covering which also diminished the picture. The black level on the 9th gen (current models) is five times blacker than last year's when this was posted.
http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/pioneer-debuts-project-kuro.html

I have yet to see anything that gives a better picture overall than the Kuros. The Pannasonics have a very nice picture at a much less price giving them a much better bang for the buck. If you want the best picture, however, the Elite Kuro is in my opinion, the best I have seen...if you can afford it.

Hope this helps.

 

[jasonwf]

It's just hard for me to justify a $1000+ investment for black levels that are slightly better, although I've never seen a Kuro and Viera side by side in a dark room calibrated.

 

[bandphan]

It's just hard for me to justify a $1000+ investment for black levels that are slightly better, although I've never seen a Kuro and Viera side by side in a dark room calibrated.

So i guess that since you havent seen them properly setup, justifing the price difference isnt just hard but impossible

 

[annunaki]

My understanding is that the current generation of Kuro displays are still made completely by Pioneer. They have a deal with Pannasonic to make their glass for the next gen displays. They will be made to Pioneer's specs.

You are correct sir.