1080p Projector VS 1080p Flat-Panel

[staindrocks]

I realize that each have their strengths and weaknesses and that there are many considerations that one must make to determine which is the better fit. But what i'd really like to know is about the comparative overall picture quality between these two Home Theater setups.

I have a completely light-controlled room measuring approx. 21 feet long x 15 feet wide x 8.5 feet tall. It has four solid walls and a concrete floor, all of which i can paint/carpet/etc. to whatever specifications i want. I also already have a surround sound system in place. So, i know that i have an ideal setup for a large screen size, which screams out for a nice front projector.

I'm working with a current budget of about $2,500. So here's my question. How does the picture quality compare between the best flat panel and the best front projector that i could get with $2,500. I realize that picture quality can be subjective, so i'll try to explain what i consider to be great picture quality.

Great picture quality, to me, is a picture that has an amazing "wow" factor to it...as in a very sharp 3-dimensional picture, with really vivid colors, great contrast, very good blacks, and with as little noise as possible. I hate noise, as it seems to really bother me! To put it in simple terms, i want a picture that seems to jump right off the screen at me...to really "pop" and give it that "wow" factor!

I haven't really thought too much about screen size, yet. If i were to go with a projector, i'd probably be thinking anywhere from 90" up to 120". If i go with a flat-panel, i'd go with the largest size that can give me the best picture quality i'm looking for, while staying within my $2,500 budget.

Has anyone done side-by-side comparisons with flat-panel vs projector? Can a projector provide the same "pop" on picture quality alone, or are flat-panels superior in that department?

 

[jostenmeat]

Great picture quality, to me, is a picture that has an amazing "wow" factor to it...as in a very sharp 3-dimensional picture, with really vivid colors, great contrast, very good blacks, and with as little noise as possible. I hate noise, as it seems to really bother me! To put it in simple terms, i want a picture that seems to jump right off the screen at me...to really "pop" and give it that "wow" factor!

Hm. Noise and pop are not mutually exclusive. Noise will come from the source. Blame the source material, not your larger screen for showing whatever its told to.

I haven't really thought too much about screen size, yet. If i were to go with a projector, i'd probably be thinking anywhere from 90" up to 120". If i go with a flat-panel, i'd go with the largest size that can give me the best picture quality i'm looking for, while staying within my $2,500 budget.

Say you placed yourself 38% room length for acoustic reasons. Say this 38% was from the back wall. At the distance to screen, THX's rec of 36 degrees would be hit at about 116"+. After I played for a week, I found myself going with 42 degrees from front row. Then there are those with CIH going with over 50 degrees. That would be over 170" in the described setup here. Granted, a 2.40:1 AR, but you get my point. How much do you think a 170" 1080p flat panel would cost?

Has anyone done side-by-side comparisons with flat-panel vs projector? Can a projector provide the same "pop" on picture quality alone, or are flat-panels superior in that department?

Not side by side, but every person who has come over would tell you my pic is the greatest they have ever seen. And I would agree.

I think, on paper, plasma/crt MIGHT be "better" in one aspect simply for a deeper black. However, since I've been led to control my light, I think the blacks I have are the best that most anyone has seen. My LCoS tech is not the very best with motion, very similar to LCD, yet still better (LC layer can be reduced by 1/2). DLP will be better with motion, but some may suffer RBE and ... see.... well... you might get that POP you want, like a plasma, but... its also noisier!.... which helps its sharpness.... hmrz...

here's a good read for you:
Do any projectors beat plasma picture quality?


EDIT: regarding noise, you can always apply different types of DNR, including block, mosquito, etc. However, by scrubbing out the noise, you are also scrubbing out detail. Some movies have both noise + amazing detail, some movies have less noise + amazing detail, some have noise and no detail, etc, etc, etc.

However, again, you apply DNR, it will be less noisy... but also less detailed. Matter of balancing your tastes.

Me? I think DNR is the worst thing you can do to hidef.

 

[staindrocks]

Wow Jostenmeat, thanks for the reply! What projector is in your current setup? And are you saying that the sharper a picture, the more it will pick up any noise that's present in the source material? Aren't some models of PJs/FPs better than others as far as noise is concerned? Also, i know i'd have to find a delicate balance between everything to get the picture quality i want...i was only trying to describe what i would consider the perfect picture in a perfect world, so i could try to avoid the replies saying that it's all subjective.

 

[jostenmeat]

Well staindrocks, I'm not sure what to say. I must admit I am not an expert by any means, but simply a recently obsessed consumer. I'm still on a hard learning curve myself.

My main point above, as obscured as it was, is that its the actual DISC you are watching that will make the biggest difference in PQ. Period.

While I would bet that a Panasonic plasma would have the best PQ for a "larger" display within your budget, I just can't imagine anyone giving up a large FP setup for one. My display basically looks like a 159" plasma. Oh yeah, your question, its a JVC RS-1. My first complaint is that I wish the greens were more accurate. Second would be that the PJ was just a tad quieter. Third would be that the reds were a little more accurate.

Don't get me wrong, still a beautiful pic. If football is going to be the #1 thing, I'd think about a different brand.

However, I recently put on Kill Bill for a sort of demo recently. When Kiddo gets to Pasadena early on in the film, the guests were pretty amazed and exclaimed something or other, but I thought it was the worst looking scene up to that point in the film, because of the lawn grass having a subtle neon tint to it. They couldn't catch that to save their lives, because they were so overwhelmed by how natural the scene looked overall.

I think the only thing you can do is go see for yourself. You should also know that I simply will not and cannot watch DVD on this setup. Its purely for hidef movies. That said, you could not pay me to change it for a 60" Kuro. Nope. No way Jose. You simply cannot beat the immersion. And, seriously, the PQ is the best I've ever seen, and mine is only midlevel. I've been to dedicated Pioneer/Kuro stores, btw, and those DO look incredible. If I watched in ambient light as a norm, I'd wish for one of those. Except they cost about twice my PJ for a new 60" I believe.

I mean, do you think people would bother in going to the movies if they made the screen a lot smaller? Sorry that I can't help you more. Go out and see some nice installs, and come back with your impressions.

 

[staindrocks]

Thanks a lot for all of your input. It really does help, whether i sound like it or not. I basically have this question posted on 8 different HT forums, so i can get a wider-spread wealth of opinions/suggestions. But each additional reply will help, so i really do appreciate your help. As far as "seeing some nice installs" goes, well, that's the main problem i have. I don't know anyone, or any stores near me, that have a PJ on display. So that's why i'm so in the dark when trying to understand what HD PQ looks like with a PJ. Let me ask you this... are you familiar/up-to-date on the PJ scene. I do know that your PJ is a step above, in price and quality, what i can afford. I believe it's now selling for about $4500 and the newer JVC RS-2 about $6500. That's WAY out of my league! I'll be restricted to PJs in the $2500 range...the Panasonic AE3000, Epson 6500UB, Sanyo Z3000, and the Mitsubishi HC6500U to name a few. But like i said before, there's no way for me to see any of these in action until i shovel out the cash, which kinda sucks!

 

[mtrycrafts]

Thanks a lot for all of your input. It really does help, whether i sound like it or not. I basically have this question posted on 8 different HT forums, so i can get a wider-spread wealth of opinions/suggestions. But each additional reply will help, so i really do appreciate your help. As far as "seeing some nice installs" goes, well, that's the main problem i have. I don't know anyone, or any stores near me, that have a PJ on display. So that's why i'm so in the dark when trying to understand what HD PQ looks like with a PJ. Let me ask you this... are you familiar/up-to-date on the PJ scene. I do know that your PJ is a step above, in price and quality, what i can afford. I believe it's now selling for about $4500 and the newer JVC RS-2 about $6500. That's WAY out of my league! I'll be restricted to PJs in the $2500 range...the Panasonic AE3000, Epson 6500UB, Sanyo Z3000, and the Mitsubishi HC6500U to name a few. But like i said before, there's no way for me to see any of these in action until i shovel out the cash, which kinda sucks!

Don't forget, picture size matters You can get a much larger picture with front projectors than a panel, unless you have a bank
$2500 may not be enough though.

 

[jostenmeat]

Thanks a lot for all of your input. It really does help, whether i sound like it or not. I basically have this question posted on 8 different HT forums, so i can get a wider-spread wealth of opinions/suggestions. But each additional reply will help, so i really do appreciate your help. As far as "seeing some nice installs" goes, well, that's the main problem i have. I don't know anyone, or any stores near me, that have a PJ on display. So that's why i'm so in the dark when trying to understand what HD PQ looks like with a PJ. Let me ask you this... are you familiar/up-to-date on the PJ scene. I do know that your PJ is a step above, in price and quality, what i can afford. I believe it's now selling for about $4500 and the newer JVC RS-2 about $6500. That's WAY out of my league! I'll be restricted to PJs in the $2500 range...the Panasonic AE3000, Epson 6500UB, Sanyo Z3000, and the Mitsubishi HC6500U to name a few. But like i said before, there's no way for me to see any of these in action until i shovel out the cash, which kinda sucks!

Hey, you're welcome. I'm not NEARLY as up to date as some others that post here... Anyhoo, got my pj for 3k. However, I did land a great deal. I'd probably be thinking LCD Pj's, namely Pana 3000 and whatever Epson fits, perhaps 1080 UB.

I see your dilemma now. I say just take the plunge. Especially after reading this:

"I have a completely light-controlled room measuring approx. 21 feet long x 15 feet wide x 8.5 feet tall. It has four solid walls and a concrete floor, all of which i can paint/carpet/etc. to whatever specifications i want. I also already have a surround sound system in place. So, i know that i have an ideal setup for a large screen size, which screams out for a nice front projector."

Just do it. If you hate it, I will accept all of the red chiclets mtrycrafts can throw at me. HOWEVER, just READ all the threads. Take time. PJ setup is obviously much more involved than a tv on the wall. Two part system, when screen is involved, different screen techs, throws, angles, etc.

But: just do it man.

Don't forget, picture size matters You can get a much larger picture with front projectors than a panel, unless you have a bank
$2500 may not be enough though.

I believe Mark Cuban got himself one of those HUGE Pana plasmas. My friend works for Pana, and he says they've got one boxed up in the back. I asked him how much it weighed, and he said he had no idea... but man its gotta be something ridiculous. I mean... what they have to do to a wall to be able to support that?

 

[deedubb]

Projectors are so good these days that with your room and ability for total light control, I think you'd get a much bigger wow factor and more enjoyment by going projection. If you can save up for a bit more, consider doing a 2.35 setup. It is truly an experience. You'll never want to watch another movie on a 16x9 screen again.

 

[rnatalli]

Something I've noticed is that HD projectors do better with SD signals than their HD plasma/lcd counterparts. Could just be the specific equipment I've seen.

 

[jinjuku]

About 1 1/2 year ago I helped a buddy build his Home Theater. We put in a bang for the buck Panasonic PT-AX200U. Now mind you this is only 720P.

The throw distance is ~12-13 feet and we have a 105" screen. After a little tweaking with Avia II DVD the PQ (picture quality) is outstanding. Now I am not going to say that it would beat a Pioneer/Samsung plasma for overall PQ.

How ever there is one area were it whoops any flat panel: $$ per square inch.

To us it looks "great". The bulb half life means that he will get about 4-5 years out of the original bulb with his current viewing habits. Not to bad for $1300.

I hate coming back to my puny 37" LCD. The big screen is just an immersive experience that you don't get (IMO) with even the 60" sets.

 

[jostenmeat]

Something I've noticed is that HD projectors do better with SD signals than their HD plasma/lcd counterparts. Could just be the specific equipment I've seen.

Most likely rnatalli. When the display is so large, you can really feel/tell the difference of that missing "information", IMO. For instance, I can't even watch DVD on my new PJ setup, not even the best transfers.

Also, IMO, plasmas seem to perform the best with SD that I've seen. JMO based on stupid subjective experiences.

 

[Bluesmoke]

Many of the current 1080p projectors have processors that KILL tv processors. Most include HQV Reon, or something similar in terms of performance.

 

[Sherardp]

Staindrocks, I think for your budget you'll find the Panasonic 3000U or the Epson models will work just fine for your needs. You may even save some coin and buy an Epson 1080UB which is a very nice performer and should blow your mind every time you turn it on. It also come close to the RS1 in black level. My dedicated room is 14x22 and I run a 126 inch screen paired with the same JVC HD/RS1, I have tower speakers so I needed room for them, but its plenty big.

Keep in mind that the larger you go in screen the brighter that PJ needs to be, so you could go 120-130 even but again thats your personal choice. The new Sony HW10 is nice also so its worth a look but around 3k. I would go Epson over the Panny, however the new 3000U is feature rich so definitely consider it. Your local BB should have the Sony HW10, so check there.

Also give projectorpeople a call, they have a great return policy, check out the epson or3000U, see how you like it and go from there, if you dont like it return it. Use some masking tape and mask out overall size of screen to get an idea of what screen size is suitable for your room. It takes allot of homework but in the end, you'll be happy.

Go BIG or Go Home..............good luck.

 

[funlvr1965]

my take on all of this is if you want to watch a movie then buy a rear projection tv or plasma however if you want a "movie experience" then get a projector its really that simple especially with the prices as low as they have ever been