Subwoofer ?

[golfman]

I purchased a def tech prosub 1000 early this week and hooked it up in my theater. My room is 35x15x8 or about 4200ft3. The sub just didn't seem to really fill the room with bass. I was thinking of purchasing a klipsch sub12 and replacing the def tech sub. Anyone have any ideas on this? I heard it at circuit city and it sounded good to me. Also the def tech sub would shutoff for a second if I pushed the subwoofer gain up to high on some movies. I believe the def tech sub amp is 300 watt as is the klipsch. The difference I noticed from the specs is the def tech just list 300 watts where the klipsch lists rms 300 watts and dynamic power of 650 watts. Does anyone know if the klipsch has a more powerful amp?

 

[no. 5]

I purchased a def tech prosub 1000 early this week and hooked it up in my theater. My room is 35x15x8 or about 4200ft3. The sub just didn't seem to really fill the room with bass. I was thinking of purchasing a klipsch sub12 and replacing the def tech sub. Anyone have any ideas on this? I heard it at circuit city and it sounded good to me. Also the def tech sub would shutoff for a second if I pushed the subwoofer gain up to high on some movies. I believe the def tech sub amp is 300 watt as is the klipsch.

What are the other speakers in your system?

Have you tried moving the sub? If the room modes the subwoofer is coupling to are putting you seating position in a null, replacing the sub won't do much. If you play something with bass and walk around you room, do you find some locations where the bass is much louder? That may indicate that all you need to do is reposition the sub you have.

The difference I noticed from the specs is the def tech just list 300 watts where the klipsch lists rms 300 watts and dynamic power of 650 watts. Does anyone know if the klipsch has a more powerful amp?

No idea. But without knowing the sensitivity of the drivers in question, the power output of the amplifiers becomes somewhat irrelevant.

 

[golfman]

I don't really have any bass from the in wall speakers, in any location. The in wall speakers do have a bass treble switch to add +3db to either. I have that set at zero. Should I add 3db to the bass on all the speakers. The speakers are all proficient IW625 in wall. Not sure if the are any good.

 

[no. 5]

I don't really have any bass from the in wall speakers, in any location.

Two unrelated questions, sorry for the confusion.

If you have signal going to the subwoofer only, and some locations of the room have louder bass than your listening position, it is an indication that repositioning the sub could be a fix to your problem.

 

[Chopin_Guy]

You need to look to more powerful subs than what you have and what you have listed as possibilities in your original post. You have a rather large theater room and it is going to take a fair amount to get the amount of bass response you are looking for....

That being said, just how much bass do you want and at what levels do you listen??? As if you listen loud and want theater level kind of tactile bass---it is going to take a fairly potent sub to make that happen in that large of a space. Now, if you listen at reasonable levels and want a sub that will properly fill out the bass in music and in the LFE channel of home theater---then that is another thing again.

If you can chime in and answer some of those questions we will be able to help you better on a choice for that room--also inform on what kind of budget you have as this large of a space will demand at least one very good sub and possibly even two depending on how you like to listen.

Now as for your in-wall speakers---you won't get any bass from them that is worth while. You should have your speakers set to small on your AVR speaker set-up setting and depending on the model of in-walls you have they should really be crossed over at 80hz or possibly even higher. You want them to perform their best and they will be inhibited from doing so if you try to get them to produce lower frequencies that stain them...Bass is what your sub is for....

So, inform us on some of the issues raised above with your listening habits and price range and we will be much better able to help you...

 

[AVRat]

As mentioned, take the Def Tech sub back. It's only good in small rooms and then only for music that doesn't go too deep. Most of what's available at local retailers for what Joe Consumer wants to spend doesn't perform well in a space like your's. You'll need to up the budget a bit to attain the sort of performance I think you're shooting for. Minmally, I'd consider the subs below.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm
http://av123.com/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,265/category_id,9/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,37/
http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/KnightOverview.html
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3-mk3.html

If you could elaborate about the room layout it would help. How far from the front wall is the primary listening position? Second row? What the screen size? What is the viewing distance?

I don't know how good the Proficient IW-625s are, but they'll only handle 125W which should be sufficient power handling.

 

[jostenmeat]

In addition to no. 5's excellent advice regarding sub position, and perhaps even more importantly listener position, you might also want to adjust your sub's phase if only for a tiny bit of improvement.

Start crawling for bass.

 

[golfman]

Hello Thanks for all the replies,
Yes to answer the question do I want theater quality bass response. I usually listen to movies around reference level or -3db below. My budget is yet to be decided. I could spend around $1000 on subwoofer. I thought of buying two klipsch sub 12. Would that be enough for movie quality bass response? That would be around a grand for both.

The room has 106" dalite screen and the first set of seats are 14 feet back from screen. The second row is 17 feet back from screen. The fronts are mounted in the wall on each side of the screen and center channel is below the screen The side surrounds are mounted in wall on each side of the first row. The rear surrounds are mounted in wall about 3 feet behind the second row of seats. They are mounted on the side walls of the theater as well since I have a stairway and only a partial wall in the back of the theater.

I cant set the speakers to small since onkyo doesn't use that setting. They just issue a crossover point for each speaker. Should I change all the speakers to 80hz?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

If you have an option to set the crossover, you are "at small".

2 Klipsh subs wont offer anything like one good sub. I would save up for the Ultra or if you are a DIY'er, build you a superior sub at less cost. A lot of guys on here can help you with the design and there are some threads dedicated to the builds on this forum.

I just replaced my Paradigm Servo15 with a DIY and am very happy.

I cant set the speakers to small since onkyo doesn't use that setting. They just issue a crossover point for each speaker. Should I change all the speakers to 80hz?

 

[annunaki]

The flat black wood grain finish looks very nice. That is the first time I have seen it and actually liked it. Andrew did you well with this creation.

 

[avaserfi]

The flat black wood grain finish looks very nice. That is the first time I have seen it and actually liked it. Andrew did you well with this creation.

Glad you do. Originally, I stained it black, don't bother it is ugly and a waste of time/money. I ended up just spray painting it with a flat black. It has a little sheen, but turned out very well.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I am not sure the wood grain would be so nice if you didn't stain it first. I assume the stain brought it out more.

Glad you do. Originally, I stained it black, don't bother it is ugly and a waste of time/money. I ended up just spray painting it with a flat black. It has a little sheen, but turned out very well.

 

[avaserfi]

I am not sure the wood grain would be so nice if you didn't stain it first. I assume the stain brought it out more.

The stain just meant I didn't have to use as many coats . I made some test pieces before I was about to ruin that whole cab!!!

 

[annunaki]

When it comes to finishing wood & staining I am am glad my father in law is a painting contractor. He has done some amazing finishing jobs on nearly anything you can think of. His typical clients own $300K homes & up. In Central WI that is "higher end" as far as home pricing is concerned.

 

[golfman]

I guess you will have to change your name from paradigmdawg now. LOL. I like the enclosure you have built. It looks like some sort of 5th or 6th order enclosure? but the other picture it looks like a sealed enclosure. I used to build subwoofer enclosures for car audio years ago as a kid. I am aware that a nice enclosure with a good subwoofer is an option to build but without proper testing and tuning equipment it would and is hard to determine a good tuning frequency. I also noticed that pricing one out would be around $400.00 for a good 12 inch woofer, enclosure and a good 300 watt amp. Why would a kliptsch sub12 not be a good option?

 

[annunaki]

The enclosure is sealed. That is bracing you see inside the enclosure.

Even a modest DIY design like Andrew's Infinity Kappa build with 500 watts will trounce most commercially available subs.

Most commercial subs suffer from non-linear behavior at higher volume levels as well as severe port compression. There are a few exceptions but not many.

 

[golfman]

I agree with what your saying, My point would be the testing aspect of the enclosure. I don't own the proper testing equipment so how can I be sure that the speaker is functioning correctly in the enclosure. Is there software available for free?
How low do you think you can tune that sealed enclosure and wouldn't make more sense to port the enclosure and pick up a +3db gain for the port?

 

[annunaki]

You tune the sealed enclosure for a .707 - .80 Qtc. and add the EQ. This will definitely require a very linear driver such as the afformentioned audiopulse or something like the W7 drivers from JL.

Vented enclosures will allow the lower tuning, more output, and much less EQ but at the expense of a substantial increase in size.

Everything is a set of compromises. It is simply choosing which ones you can live with and those you can't live without.

Subwoofers, for the most part, do not require extensive testing equipment though they make the job easier. Freeware modeling programs such as WinIsd allow for very accurate enclosure design using the T/S parameters of the woofer.

 

[golfman]

I just downloaded that program as you were posting. It looks good. I will look it over and see about making a enclosure. I will have to break out some of my speaker enclosure design books if I can find them. My copy of Loudspeaker design cookbook must be 20 years old now. . Maybe I will do some work on something really exotic like a 7th order enclosure. We used them years ago for the Orion amplifiers Van in Phoenix.

It is just easier to buy than build now that I have 4 kids.

Can anyone tell me if they think that klipsch sub12 is any good if I were to buy?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I had a Klipsch sub12 for two days. My review which was posted on this forum was one word..."Cute".

If you need a great sub that's already built and don't want to spend much more than 1k, then consider my Servo15. It MSRPs for 2500 bucks and I am willing to deal. This is not a shameless plug (I guess it kind of it) but it is a really good sub at a very good price.

Can anyone tell me if they think that klipsch sub12 is any good if I were to buy?