Epson 7500 or Runco?

P

parinshah

Audioholic
thanks!

Couple more questions...I really appreciate your time!

What are the differences between the similar prices Sony and JVC? Which situation is one better than the other?
What is "PQ"?
Which fixed Carada do you recommend?

Thanks!
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
The Epson 7500ub was shown at the Audioholics SOTU this past October in Orlando. It was used in the Emotiva demo room. You can ask the guys at Emotiva what they thought. It had a beautiful picture!!!

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48428




The Epson 6500 is a similar projector. It doesn't offer the full ISF calibration modes and a few other nice higher end features. If you are looking to save a few more bucks, go with the 6500. But for me, I wouldn't settle for something that can't do full ISF calibrations.
 
P

parinshah

Audioholic
Well, I will definitely keep the Epson in mind. How much does the 7500 and 6500 cost? I will probably use the projector say...once a month? It would be nice to say a lot more....but with work, family, new baby and toddler etc...practically speaking its hard to find time!

Oh also (and I will post this in the other thread)...

My builder uses a home theater company that sells only certain brands, but they will only install if i use there brands...is that normal? I don't see why I cant buy the stuff I want and have them wire and install for me..

Again, they sell sony projectors...but if the espon or jvc is a better value i would rather go that route.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I will probably use the projector say...once a month? It would be nice to say a lot more....but with work, family, new baby and toddler etc...practically speaking its hard to find time!
Well, if you are only going to use it a dozen times a year, I wouldn't spend so much on the PJ. Go with the Epsons, if you are sure that this is the case. If there is a possibility that you become a nutty videophile, regular reviewer of new BD releases, local movie critic/editor, go with JVC (or maybe Sony). :p

Other notes: Are you absolutely positive that 100" is what you want? I mean, really, truly, absolutely sure?

Please just fire the pic up a the blank wall for a few days. This is such simple advice, but I think its normally the best advice I ever give in PJ threads.

I was thinking in the ballpark of 120", as a guess, and after firing my JVC at the blank wall for a week, I instead brought in the biggest screen I could fit. The picture is extraordinary.
 
P

parinshah

Audioholic
interesting...I thought that 100" was standard...I have a 18' wide by 10' high wall...I can definitely go bigger! 120" wasn't big enough for you, what did you get? What would you recommend? Which brand would be good for a larger screen over 100"?
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
You're right, you can definitely go bigger, however, what's most important is what is best for your tastes. Period. End of story. I just wanted to reiterate that predicting the perfect size is near impossible if this is your first go around. There is in fact someone very recently who had his screen size predicted. He built custom shelving/cabinetry around the allotted space. When he fired the pic at the wall, he realized he much preferred a larger size than what he had allowed. He ended up covering up the cabinetry, wasting his time and money. Just another example of how hard it is to predict, and the possible pitfalls.

The best size, or compromise thereof, will also be based on the quality of your source material, and the AR you typically will watch with. Most of my movies, by far, have smaller AR than 16:9 for instance. Also, I exclusively watch hidef. If I put on a DVD, even upconverted by Anchor Bay, with very good PQ (say, a Peter Jackson flick), its still rather unbearable and too unforgiving on my 159" screen. YMMV. A good bluray transfer will leave you picking up your jaw from the floor.

While excellent black levels are really nice to have, I would be careful on how much you spend on that sort of thing if you are not going to control your light. Dark walls are best, period, and I do mean all of your walls, including ceiling, and even the back wall. Ok, very few go to such extent, but my point is that it will all help out. For instance, I use two large Ikea rugs in the front, and they helped tremendously. Ok, what I want to say is that a midlevel PJ in a good room will outperform a top notch PJ in a bad room. Contrast will decrease exponentially with the increase of ambient & reflected light.

The screen I use is a DaLite High Power. I've already mentioned the compromises, namely, the narrower viewing cone, and the necessity of having the PJ mounted as close to the angle of the viewers heads. Whether that means table mounted, shelf mounted, or ceiling mounted with a longer pipe. (btw, a little cool tip: some people extend the pipe as the bulb ages for increased brightness).

This is due to the retro reflective properties; the screen reflects the image back towards where the light is coming from. (emulsified glass beads). While this helps its ambient light rejection, you would very much like to have all viewers within 20 degrees. I think I just about succeeded with that, or very very close to, with two rows of four. So, its not like its impossible, but it really depends on the setup. If for instance the pool table is very close, if you're on one extreme end, it might look dim. OTOH, if the pool table is very far away, the off axis angle represented by any end of the pool table will not be as obtuse.

Basically, the screen is multiplying your brightness up to 3x, depending on how close the PJ is to your head. It does so in a uniform matter, everything is properly raised at the same level. This allows someone like me to use a 3k PJ that doesn't have a light cannon price tag, and get my huge screen still. Some other strengths of this material are virtually no hotspotting, disappearing of screen, heavy material that is resistant to waving, among others I think. Oh yeah, its extremely affordable. My screen is over 75 sq ft, and I perhaps unnecessarily added the CSR feature, and custom ordered in black, both for additional money, and its still less than 1k shipped. The screen, at this size, is very heavy (I presume due to the glass) and it took three people to mount.

hope that helps.

btw, as much I dig my screen, I've only heard good things about Carada here, and I take what BMXTRIX recommends very seriously. I will not say that one is better than the other, but if he recommends it very strongly, so would I.
 
S

Sherardp

Audioholic
I dont know your overall room size, but if its 18ft wide then it has to be of decent size. I would opt for a Carada Criterion 126-134 inch screen. Add a JVC RS10 to the combo and call it a day. Though you say you'll only fire up the system once a month, I seriously doubt that, the kids are going to love it and so will the wife, so I'm sure it will be used more than that. I say splurge on the best projector you can afford now and it should last you 4-5 yrs until your next major upgrade. The screen will last you a lifetime as long as you keep the crayons, markers, etc away from it.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
What are the differences between the similar prices Sony and JVC?
Generally, they both are using LCoS technology, but image processing, lenses, and a fair bit of the electronics are different. So, while you may have similar pricing, you may end up with a significantly different image from similarly priced projectors from different manufacturers.

Which situation is one better than the other?
Lumens, black level, shadow detail, contrast, and color are the biggest differences you run into. You want the best of everything, but typically you get a balance amongst them. Some trade some contrast for extra lumens, some manufacturers just don't have decent color balancing out of the box.

What is "PQ"?
PQ usually stands for Picture Quality. A very common term.

Which fixed Carada do you recommend?
I recommend the Carada Criterion in Brilliant White. The extra gain gives a bit of 'pop' to the image and helps to brighten up larger screen sizes in a dark theater environment. It can give a few more projector options because of the positive gain of the screen.

IMPORTANT: Beyond the very good questions are you asking, make sure to read the reviews. Audioholics has some great reviews, as does projectorreviews.com and projectorcentral.com - You can find reviews of most major manufacturer projectors on the market.

You will NOT find Runco reviews - this is because Runco does not want real reviews of their projectors in head-to-head situations with projectors costing 1/4th the price.

Thanks![/QUOTE]
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
SCREEN SIZE:

Screen size is personal preference, but it actually takes some planning in advance on your part, and some serious consideration of your personal preference.

THX standard has a typically well built movie theater with center seats that are 1.5x the width (not diagonal!) of the screen away. So, if the screen is 40 feet wide, they have seats in the center of the theater that are 60 feet away.

If you like sitting in the center of the theater, and you are sitting 15 feet from the screen to your 'main' theater seats, then use the same formula.

SEATING DISTANCE times .66 = screen WIDTH.

15' x .66 = 10'

120" wide screen.

If you like sitting a bit closer, go a bit larger. If you like sitting further back in the theater, go a bit smaller.

This is VERY much personal preference, but gives you a good baseline to buy a screen from.

Also take into consideration that your theater area should be done in very dark flat colors including the ceiling, walls, carpeting, and furniture.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
My builder uses a home theater company that sells only certain brands, but they will only install if i use there brands...is that normal? I don't see why I cant buy the stuff I want and have them wire and install for me..
Yes, this is normal for some companies. In all fairness, you should at least get a quote from them. You may find that they are within 10-20% of the pricing you can get elsewhere.

Consider the extra value you get for that:

1. They order everything, receive everything, unbox everything.
2. They are 100% responsible for delivering a finished product.
3. They aren't just installing and leaving, there is typically follow up guaranteed support if necessary.
4. They are on the hook if something they sell you fails. Usually this means they will come back to your home to fix the issue.
5. They often are able to charge lower overall labor rates if some of their complete costs are offset by sales of products.

Now, that said: Don't let yourself get screwed over.

Some builders get a 'cut' for pushing just one theater installer down your throat. If you are having a custom build out done to a home you already own, it is 100% BS that you have to use their theater guy. It is already entirely your home and you can let them know that you absolutely intend to use a theater installer that meets both the experience levels and pricing levels that you expect and desire.

If you do not own the home yet, but it is under construction, you are at the mercy of the builder. But, as I said - RUN CONDUIT! You can usually have a dozen pieces of conduit run for a few hundred bucks, then have someone else do the theater installation.

For reference: If I have a 7.1 conduit run with 3/4" conduit to the speakers, and 2" conduit to the projector, it would take a team of two about 20 hours total to fully install the theater including projector, running all wires, all speakers installed, screen building and installation, setting up all gear, and running basic calibration to ensure that audio is decent and all inputs are working and the image is perfectly aligned on screen.

About $1,400 for total labor - plus the price of gear which ranges from a few thousand dollars to $20K or more. The labor does not tend to change much.
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
You're not going to get much better advice than what BMXTRIX just gave you! He's one of the custom installers around this site and has quite a bit more knowledge than us amateurs.

I will second his advice on just getting your contractor to install conduit.

One thing that may be in your favor is how you signed the contract. If the property is yours, then you have all the say in what goes on.

In other words, if this is a new home and the builder made you obtain a "construction-to-permanent loan" you have the control. This is where the property was signed over to you from the beginning as part of the loan and the builder make draws on the loan based on levels of construction completion. If that's the case, it's your property and the builder is just a contractor working for you. You'd have all the rights to obtain your own licensed contractors. Granted, you need to work closely with the builder's electrical subcontractor since it's his license that's on the line for the inspections.

If this is a conventional new home construction where you just paid a deposit and will close upon completion, things are more difficult. You'll need to work with the builder since the property belongs to them.

No matter how you do things it doesn't hurt to show up on the jobsite OFTEN. It's amazing what you can get done behind the scenes from subcontracors with a 12 pack of beer or cash. I got a whole bunch of upgrades. :D
 
P

parinshah

Audioholic
Thanks for all the info!

This house is new construction and we will start pouring concrete in January. The room is 30' long, 18' wide with 10' ceilings. The sofa will be place halfway in the room, at 15'. behind the sofa will be a pool table, ping pong table and wetbar. The room has a dual focus, media and rec room...so its not a true media and there will be ambient light. I am not sure if a totally black room would be nice with pool and ping pong table...and being in Hot Houston. So there will have to be some compromise. The screen will mostly be used at night.

What i could do is put a plasma up on another wall that can be used while plalying pool or ping pong and use the large screen soley for night movies or with the blinds down i could watch some football.

That being said, I think 120" screen is the way to go. The Carada's are really nice. They have 2 types of screens, is it worth the extra money for the nicer screen?

Maybe its better to get everything prewired for now and wait till I move in to see what things look like?

On another thread I have written about speakers. I am debating between In-wall Axiom's (w22) vs. there new cabinet speakers (T60's, which are like their M60's) I would get a 7.1 system. But pre-planning this may be tough and better to see how things look once I am in the new house...what do you think?

I think I will have do decide between the JVC, Epson and Sony. If it is only a differenc of $1k or so, I will probably opt for the JVC.

Does the Carada screen offer a better viewing angle than the Da-lite?

what is the benefits of white, brilliant white and grey with the Carada's? If there may be some ambient light, is one better than the other?
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
Forgive me for not reading the entire thread. Are you looking for a fixed or retractable screen? Will you need an acoustically transluscent screen? Speakers behind?
 
P

parinshah

Audioholic
fixed screen. Not sure what acoustically translucent means. Speakers will be to the side of the screen and then surrounds will be places halfway in the room and another set of surrounds will be placed in the back of the room
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
An acoustically transparent screen allows you to place the speakers behind the screen. It would be beneficial if you planned to install a fixed display (LCD/plasma) on the wall with a screen that drops down in front when you want a big display. The center channel speaker can be mounted behind the drop down screen at a higher level off the floor. Like a movie theater.

You might want to check out the SI Black Diamond since you want a fixed screen. It has won many awards at recent shows. It knocked my socks off at the EHX show.

http://www.siscreens.com/screens/black_diamond_projector_screen.php
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=932169


I currently have a Stewart Luxus Deluxe with Firehawk material:

http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/residential/products/fixed_screens/luxus_deluxe_screenwall/luxus_deluxe_screenwall_residential.html
http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/residential/materials/front_projection_screen_materials/firehawk_g3/firehawkg3_residential.html

I will be replacing my screen with a Black Diamond in 2009. I'm also looking to get the Epson 7500UB if I can get a good deal.
 
P

parinshah

Audioholic
Are the acoustically transparent ones much more expensive? I can get a Cardana for under $1k
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
Are the acoustically transparent ones much more expensive? I can get a Cardana for under $1k
Unfortunately, a good one will cost more that $1K. But it give you opportunies to place speakers behind the screen. In you case since you want a fixed screen and tower speakers, it's not really needed.

Don't skimp on the screen. A cheap screen can make the best projector look poor. But a good screen can make a lesser projector look better. The screen should last much longer than the projector.

No matter what brand of screen you buy, make sure it has at least 2" to 3" of black velvet border. It will allow the image to "overscan" the screen. Filling the entire viewing area without annoying reflections on the edges.
 
P

parinshah

Audioholic
also..

this is a construction to permanent loan...they will draw money as they build. I guess I can meet with their guy and get a total price, and then meet with a couple others aswell.

Thanks for all the info!!!! You guys are great
 

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