Anyone else having lip sync problems with Blu-Ray players?

B

bnewt

Junior Audioholic
I have the Panasonic BD55 & have this problem with my older Pioneer 45 Elite receiver. I did not have this problem with my old Pioneer 45A dvd player. How can I correct this problem without purchasing a newer receiver?
 
A

abboudc

Audioholic Chief
I have the Panasonic BD55 & have this problem with my older Pioneer 45 Elite receiver. I did not have this problem with my old Pioneer 45A dvd player. How can I correct this problem without purchasing a newer receiver?
Try setting your TV/receiver to "game mode" or equivalent.
 
N

Nexsen

Audiophyte
Game mode should decrease the video delay your TV adds which may reduce the lip-sync error but it does it at the expense of image enhancement. That's how it speeds things up. In game mode it doesn't do many of the fancy image processing functions like 3:2 pull down removal, etc. I don't think you want to forfeit those image processing features.

Plus it won't really correct lip-sync error but might help mask it some. Lip-sync error is not just caused by your TV's video delay but starts creeping in during production , editing, broadcast and encoding, etc. Correcting for the TV's video delay leaves all the variable lip-sync error in those sources. The only way to really correct lip-sync is to fine tune a variable audio delay while watching the actual programme.

Several companies make digital audio delays for this purpose and they allow shifting the audio in millisecond increments while watching without image disturbance. I have the Felston Dd740 which works great. The other companies I know of who make similar remote controlled delays are Alchemy2 and Primare.

Don't let the HDMI 1.3 claim of "automatic lip-sync correction" confuse the issue. That feature does "noting" to correct lip-sync error already in the source material which is where the variable lip-sync error occurs. Ironically, that feature can actually make lip-sync error "worse" when audio arrives already delayed rather than ahead of the picture.

In that case one of these audio delays I mentioned allows you to lower the delay below the value needed to cancel your display's video delay and actually use your display's video delay to advantage to offset the arriving delayed audio. That's fairly common in DVD's but in broadcasts audio is almost always ahead of video.
 
B

bnewt

Junior Audioholic
Bbut the delay is only when viewing the blu ray movie with the surrond receiver. If I just use the tv's speakers, everything is fine.

Isn't this why the newer receivers have the audio sync feature?
 
N

Nexsen

Audiophyte
The reason you don't see the problem when going through the TV's speakers is probably because the manufacturer adds an audio delay equal to the video delay they know their processing adds. Most of the higher end TV's do that now but any lip-sync error in the arriving programs and DVD's will still be there since they can't correct for that. Most people don't notice lip-sync error below about 40 ms so you can "mask" the problem getting it below most viewer's "threshold of recognition" but according to the study at Stanford University, even lip-sync error that isn't consciously noticed still causes a negative impact on viewer perception making the characters seem "more agitated, less successful, less persuasive, etc. Plus, if you really force yourself to look at the lips you will still see the lip-sync error you might otherwise avoid noticing. That's the only real way to fix it: To look directly at the lips and adjust an audio delay until its perfect but to do that you would need a remote controlled digital audio delay like the Felston, Alchemy2 or Primare. I have the Felston Dd740.

If all you want to do is make it not noticeable when using your surround sound receiver - getting the sync error below your threshold of recognition so you can ignore it - the fixed delay that a/v receivers add will probably work fine since the fixed delay inside the TV is working for you.

The easy way to adjust that would be to let both your surround speakers and your TV speakers play at the same time and adjust your receiver's audio delay until there is no echo. Then you can turn off your TV speakers.

Most a/v receivers overlay the screen with menus when adjusting the audio delay so you may not be able to adjust the delay while watching but if you can you can focus on the lips and make further adjustment to get it perfect but it changes a little between every program and DVD so if you get used to perfect sync you probably won't like the way an av receiver makes the adjustments. It's almost impossible with some and many don't have enough delay anyway. I saw one with only 80 ms total delay and my DD740 offers 680 ms (although I seldom if ever use over 200 ms)
 
M

Marantzjeff

Audiophyte
I have the Panasonic BD55 & have this problem with my older Pioneer 45 Elite receiver. I did not have this problem with my old Pioneer 45A dvd player. How can I correct this problem without purchasing a newer receiver?
I would like to weigh in on this discussion and get some feedback please. Just purchased a complete new system. happy to get into components if necessary however my question is: Is the Lip Synch problem coming from the Blu Ray player? Reason I ask...my TV and receiver are perfectly synched or perfect enough that my eye recognizes no problems. My blu Ray player plays NON blu ray discs with no lip synch issues...and so far I have found one BD that has no problems...the rest of the discs range from absolutely unwatchable to the occasional oh I see it is not synched up. Everyone I talk to says to adjust this through my receiver...which I have not figured out yet...but it appears to me through a process of elimination that it is only the Blu Ray player. The Blu Ray player is the Marantz BD 7003 and the receiver is the AV8003 (pre tuner) the TV is a Sony 55 inch LCD Bravia XBR...do I need a Sony Blu Ray so the communication between Blu Ray and TV is more synched???
To spend the kind of money I spent and have this not work is beyond frustrating and no one at the audio store seems to have a solid answer...is this the curse of Blu Ray until the next generations come out?????%%**&
 
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