2 Terabyte Rack Mount Storage

[highfigh]

Just because its clean. My new years resolution is to keep my place looking tops. You make a good arguement though and I might end up going that way, but, more than likely I'll spring some extra cash for a rack mount one since I have plenty of extra U's. I didn't think the price difference would be as big as it is though. Seems like standalone units are half of the rack mountable ones.

Did you see the PC Pitstop ad on the right side of the first page here? They show all kinds of hard drives and storage options for them.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Thanks much guys.

What exactly is going into this rack before your storage server?

Rackmount servers are invariable _loud_. If you've never worked around them before, you're in for quite a surprise. Forget about quiet drives - it won't make the least bit of difference.

The physical issues with rackmount servers can lead to some incredibly high fan noise. First, the overall case volume tends to be lower and more packed with electronics and hard drives. This means it's necessary to have more air movement for cooling, so more fans. Second, the cases themselves being small can only accommodate small fans. A 1U chassis is only 1.75 tall, so uses 40mm fans instead of the 80, 90, and 120mm fans used in desktop or tower chassis. These little fans are screamers - they have to be run at a fairly high RPM and it requires many of them. A 2U chassis (3.5" tall) can take larger fans, but it's just less of the same problem.

How do the stand alone units cool themselves? With larger diameter and quieter fans? I thought the idea was that these run really small CPUs that just direct network traffic...

Maybe I will have to keep it out of the rack afterall. Although that PC pitstop one does say its super quiet.... but who the hell is PC pitstop!?

 

[strube]

Rackmount servers are invariable _loud_. If you've never worked around them before, you're in for quite a surprise. Forget about quiet drives - it won't make the least bit of difference.

There is a distinction between rackmount server and rackmount NAS (Network Attached Storage) that is being missed here.

You are talking about a 1U rackmount server, which I agree is extremely loud, however the NAS system we were looking at is a very different animal. 1U rackmount servers have 10 to 20 40mm fans that scream at very high RPM. This particular NAS has 3. That is a substantial difference. Additionally, there is no hot Xeon server processor to cool, only a simple flash-based microcontroller that doesn't even need a heatsink. The WD Green hard drives run very cool, so cooling is even less of a concern. It is possible the OP will want to purchase 3 quieter 40mm fans, granted, but the NAS is going to sound like a Toyota Prius in comparison to the 1970 Dodge Challenger with straight pipes right out of the hood that a 1U rackmount server would sound like.

NAS device (the QNAP one discussed earlier - 3 fans):
http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/servers/qnap_ts_409u_turbo_nas/images/ts-409u4.jpg


Intel SR1500NA 1U Rackmount Server Chassis (At least 12 fans - probably more that you can't see, and this is just a "barebones" chassis with no processor or anything else installed):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.aspx?CurImage=11-102-015-01.jpg&Image=11-102-015-01.jpg&S7ImageFlag=0&WaterMark=1&Item=N82E16811102015&Depa=1&Description=Intel SR1500NA 1U Rackmount Server Case

How do the stand alone units cool themselves? With larger diameter and quieter fans? I thought the idea was that these run really small CPUs that just direct network traffic...

Most of the standalone ones are passive cooling for the drives, and maybe one small fan for the power supply. The two hottest things in a PC are the video chipset and the CPU. In a server it is the CPU. NAS have neither of these. Power supplies get hot, but we can't live without them, so they always have a fan or two. Hard drives get hot, and often need a fan to extend their life, but they don't need one unless they are the super fast screamers. Most of the time the power supply fan will pull enough air over the hard drives that it is the only fan that is needed, and it is probably 40mm in most single and dual drive NAS standalone solutions.

Maybe I will have to keep it out of the rack afterall.

IMHO, you shouldn't abandon your original idea quite yet.

I guess I would say that the noise is going to be there if you want a rackmount NAS, and I wouldn't want it terribly close to my seating area as it would add some midrange frequencies of ambient noise that might take away from the listening experience. A remotely located solution is good, but since you want a clean rackmount solution, don't shy away from what we discussed too quickly. It won't be as loud as a server by a long shot.

With the WD Green HDDs, $20 worth of easy fan replacements (if that were even deemed necessary), and a few strategically-placed pieces of Dynamat to reduce the case vibrations/harmonics, I think that QNAP device we talked about would be pretty dang quiet!

 

[Nemo128]

I've got most the parts for my rack now

Please explain what you have that you want to use. Also other things I would like to know:

1. What form factor rackmount you can use. (I see you're open to any options for size)
2. Where this will be located.
3. What the ambient temps in that location are.

This is what I do. I should be able to find you a perfect fit at your budget.

Consider a DIY rackmount enclosure with appropriate hardware and Linux or BSD with unRAID or Openfiler. You'll be much better off.

 

[MidnightSensi]

strube,

Thanks a ton of all that info. Very helpful. Are there any other brands you recommend other than QNET that I should look at?

Please explain what you have that you want to use. Also other things I would like to know:

1. What form factor rackmount you can use. (I see you're open to any options for size)
2. Where this will be located.
3. What the ambient temps in that location are.

This is what I do. I should be able to find you a perfect fit at your budget.

Consider a DIY rackmount enclosure with appropriate hardware and Linux or BSD with unRAID or Openfiler. You'll be much better off.

1. It's a standard size rack, deep mount. I have plenty of U's free, the rack was originally purchased for something much larger than what I am using it for.

2. About 5 meters from the listening position.

3. Ambient temps should be around 70 in the room, but it will be near other equipment (Onkyo Pro, Crown, Playstation, Apple TV, Voltage regulator, switch in the back mounted reverse) which should raise ambient temperatures in the rack.

I honestly don't want a DIY project, I'd rather just buy a working unit.

Thanks for your help!

 

[niget2002]

The latest servers from Dell are pretty quiet. We just picked up a Dual Quad-Core Opeteron 2U that is in the lab and except for initial power on, you can't hear the thing standing right next to it. I ran a full load test on it, and it still barely got above ambient noise.

If you want to get just a cheap desktop NAS and still keep things looking nice, think about just picking up a rack mount shelf, put the NAS on the shelf and then screw a blank to the rack in front of it... hiding the NAS. If you ever need to get to the NAS, it's just 4 screws away Or you can skip the shelf and just let the NAS sit on top of one of your network switches. You can still get a 2-4U blank to hide it and it's cables.

 

[MidnightSensi]

The latest servers from Dell are pretty quiet. We just picked up a Dual Quad-Core Opeteron 2U that is in the lab and except for initial power on, you can't hear the thing standing right next to it. I ran a full load test on it, and it still barely got above ambient noise.

If you want to get just a cheap desktop NAS and still keep things looking nice, think about just picking up a rack mount shelf, put the NAS on the shelf and then screw a blank to the rack in front of it... hiding the NAS. If you ever need to get to the NAS, it's just 4 screws away Or you can skip the shelf and just let the NAS sit on top of one of your network switches. You can still get a 2-4U blank to hide it and it's cables.

I called Dell. They offered a desktop NAS for 1,300+ ... and then the rack mount version for 2,500. The only difference was form factor according to the guy on the phone.

If I go the consumer route I would probably just stick it upstairs by my computer. What are the consumer/home options and how much cheaper are they?

It shows how green I am with this stuff, it is mind boggling to me how much more expensive rack mount computer equipment is than home. My switch was more than I wanted to pay also, I have that positioned on the rear rails (I have front and rear rails)

You guys are a huge help, thanks.

 

[strube]

strube,

Thanks a ton of all that info. Very helpful. Are there any other brands you recommend other than QNET that I should look at?

The QNAP one would still be my recommendation, it has rave reviews from just about everyone who has used it. There is a similar product by Synology called the RS407, which seems to be in the same price range but I haven't seen or heard as many reviews (however, I haven't heard a bad one about them either). They both are pretty much the same: buy the rack, buy and install the HDDs, initialize them through a web GUI and you are off and running.

I don't think the other home consumer NAS options are a bad idea, but I don't think wanting a rackmount device is bad either.

 

[Cavediver]

Since you are now appearing to be open to options other than a rackmount nas or server, you might want to look at an HP Mediasmart Server with Windows Home Server. I have one in my home network with over 10TB of storage installed. Among other things, like nightly backups and general data storage, I use it to stream my music collection to a Squeezebox and high def 1080p blu-ray and HD DVD rips with lossless audio to a Popcorn Hour.

 

[JJ Johnson]

There is a distinction between rackmount server and rackmount NAS (Network Attached Storage) that is being missed here.

You are talking about a 1U rackmount server, which I agree is extremely loud, however the NAS system we were looking at is a very different animal.

To some extent you're correct, but an NAS _is_ still a server. It's just that many of the home NAS on the market are very undepowered servers, with very limited, low power CPUs, so they can get away with less cooling. Where these servers differ not in the least from one another, though, is that both house a certain number of disk drives and those drives still must be cooled by fans.

 

[JJ Johnson]

I called Dell. They offered a desktop NAS for 1,300+ ... and then the rack mount version for 2,500. The only difference was form factor according to the guy on the phone.

Yep, that's pretty typical, both for Dell storage servers and their more general purpose servers. Most are available in both a tower and rackmount version, with the rackmount costing hundreds of dollars more.

 

[strube]

To some extent you're correct, but an NAS _is_ still a server. It's just that many of the home NAS on the market are very undepowered servers, with very limited, low power CPUs, so they can get away with less cooling. Where these servers differ not in the least from one another, though, is that both house a certain number of disk drives and those drives still must be cooled by fans.

I have to disagree with you. Though we may be arguing semantics now, there is a clear distinction between Network-Attached Storage and a server. In this case, MidnightSensi and I were discussing a very specific enterprise (not home) rackmount NAS. A NAS provides remote storage only and has a very small storage management operating system onboard and usually linux-based. A server has this storage function, but has many, many others (software liscensing, email service, enterprise security management, remote software operation, etc.) requiring it to have much more powerful (and hot) components, and they require large, powerful, expensive operating systems - Novell, Sun, Microsoft, to name a few. I think my argument for the discrepancy still stands regardless - the number of fans for a "server" is 4-6 times that of a "NAS," and fans are the primary contributor to the noise of these rackmount devices.

 

[gruppebman]

sidebar

I'm a novice at media systems but would like some general advice on storage-our situtaion-we have about 1000 DVD's that are a nuicance to manage-we'd like to place the content of these on a device that we can port to the TV that allows us to catalogue and access them through title recognition etc.
Where do we start?
thanks

 

[adk highlander]

I'm a novice at media systems but would like some general advice on storage-our situtaion-we have about 1000 DVD's that are a nuicance to manage-we'd like to place the content of these on a device that we can port to the TV that allows us to catalogue and access them through title recognition etc.
Where do we start?
thanks

Hey gruppebman,

Welcome to the forum. I would suggest you start a new thread to get answers to your question. MidnightSensi is looking to store music on the unit he is interested in. To store DVD's you will need a completely different system because of the DRM issues of storing a digital version of a DVD. Look at Escient and Kalidescape for models that can store digital copies or a mega-dvd changer and a Escient DVD manager. These are not cheap systems and start at $3000 and can go over 5 figures.

 

[Cavediver]

I'm a novice at media systems but would like some general advice on storage-our situtaion-we have about 1000 DVD's that are a nuicance to manage-we'd like to place the content of these on a device that we can port to the TV that allows us to catalogue and access them through title recognition etc.
Where do we start?
thanks

HP MSS, wired or wireless (wired preferred) - gigabit ethernet home network, myiHome (http software server), Popcorn Hour A-110, & AnyDVD HD

 

[Reorx]

Fun thread.
I work with enterprise storage all day. Mostly NetApp, and HP's MSA's, and EVA's.
What I would do with that budget, is find a non-rack mountable NAS solution, that would allow me to have more then 4 drives(expandability is always important). Then buy a rack shelf, and toss the NAS on it. I've seen rack shelves for as low as $40.

It won't look as pretty, but the wires will still be hidden, and you can spend more of your money buying better quality Hard Drives. I prefer Seagate drives.
I forgot to add...go for a raid 5 solution. This way you will minimize the amount of space you lose while still being redundant. You need at least 3 drives. preferably identical.

Hope this helps some.

Reorx