5.1 Room setup question (with pictures)

[poutanen]

Hey all, got my new TV and got rid of most of my big pro-audio stuff. Down to 5 Yamaha S55 monitors in the house now. Got a new TV and I need to figure out how to mount the speakers. If I don't go with a centre channel, then I could just wall mount or stand mount around the half way point on the TV, but with a centre, I'll have to have all 3 speakers either above or below the TV.

I plan on putting a sub where the turn table is right now (to the left of the TV). I'm actually getting a bass dead spot in the listening position with the speakers the way they are now.

Any ideas??? (click to enlarge)

 

[jostenmeat]

I like the height of the speakers now, relatively speaking, as they seem to be roughly around ear level. How much height do you have for a center speaker? (pushing the tv back, and having it on top of stand). If your Sammy is like my brother's, the IR sensor is smack dab in the middle, a stupid design choice if you ask me. I bought him the same remote system that I have, URC RF-20 + blaster, $80. I ran an emitter to the TV's IR, and you can't even see the wire, and he can finally have a centered, uh, center speaker!

JMO: The affordable (and often with compromise) center speakers are horiz MTM. Main viewing position could be happy viewers, but the side couch might get shafted with dialogue lobing. Ya know what's funny, people do run phantom, but they would recommend a center for the off-axis folks. IMO, however, I actually think phantom sounds better for those off-axis folks. The dialogue, and audio in general, is clearer due to lack of lobing. It might not be as centered, but I find that's usually not that big of a deal honestly speaking.

So, if you kept the speakers' height roughly at the same, and put the center speaker in front of tv, they will be actually very close to the same height. Some persons like to state a rule of thumb of within two feet, and yours would be even closer than that.

As for bass nulls, one thing that you can try, within aesthetic boundaries, is scooting up the couch a bit. The surround speakers then will be better placed, IMO (a bit more behind to straddle rear+sides), the TV will look bigger, and with a stroke of luck maybe the bass is better. You can even just try one-two feet; I don't think it will look too funny.

some thoughts.

 

[poutanen]

I like the height of the speakers now, relatively speaking, as they seem to be roughly around ear level. How much height do you have for a center speaker? (pushing the tv back, and having it on top of stand). If your Sammy is like my brother's, the IR sensor is smack dab in the middle, a stupid design choice if you ask me. I bought him the same remote system that I have, URC RF-20 + blaster, $80. I ran an emitter to the TV's IR, and you can't even see the wire, and he can finally have a centered, uh, center speaker!

Yes, the IR sensor is in the middle, and I think that's a major flaw, esp. if somebody has a thin centre that they'd like to place in front of the TV. Unfortunately with the TV pushed all the way back I've only got about 4" in front of it, so not really any room for the centre in front of it, even with a remote repeater. Unless of course I got a stand to hold it at that height.

JMO: The affordable (and often with compromise) center speakers are horiz MTM. Main viewing position could be happy viewers, but the side couch might get shafted with dialogue lobing. Ya know what's funny, people do run phantom, but they would recommend a center for the off-axis folks. IMO, however, I actually think phantom sounds better for those off-axis folks. The dialogue, and audio in general, is clearer due to lack of lobing. It might not be as centered, but I find that's usually not that big of a deal honestly speaking.

So, if you kept the speakers' height roughly at the same, and put the center speaker in front of tv, they will be actually very close to the same height. Some persons like to state a rule of thumb of within two feet, and yours would be even closer than that.

I'm actually pretty surprised how it sounds with only 4 speakers at the moment. But my initial thought before buying the TV was to build a shelf about 8" above the current TV stand, and have 3 identical speakers below the TV. The trouble with that is, the projection TV is more sensative to vertical viewing than it is to horizontal. Your eyes really need to be at mid screen level (without tilting the screen forward that it).

So I'm starting to think that getting stands to put the speakers at or about the 1/2 way point up the middle of the screen will be a good compromise. I can also play with their distance from the back wall to find a better location for bass. I'd like to get all the speakers in the best position before adding a sub, that way I'm not band-aiding a bad setup.

As for bass nulls, one thing that you can try, within aesthetic boundaries, is scooting up the couch a bit. The surround speakers then will be better placed, IMO (a bit more behind to straddle rear+sides), the TV will look bigger, and with a stroke of luck maybe the bass is better. You can even just try one-two feet; I don't think it will look too funny.

some thoughts.

Thanks! From sitting in the prime position, if I stand up and take one step forward the bass is much better, I'll try moving the couch up and playing with speaker position a bit. Once I introduce a sub, I imagine the best spot will either by the front left corner of the room (where the table and turn table is now), or the back left corner (where the mirror is)???

Cheers,

Aaron

 

[tattoo_Dan]

Cheers,

Aaron

nice looking setup and room

 

[poutanen]

nice looking setup and room

Thanks!

 

[jostenmeat]

Unfortunately with the TV pushed all the way back I've only got about 4" in front of it, so not really any room for the centre in front of it, even with a remote repeater. Unless of course I got a stand to hold it at that height.

Would you be absolutely against simply pulling the stand out several inches? Then you can push the TV back further. My guess is that there will be space available while maintaining safety of TV placement, with the TV's "pedestal" completely on the stand, even with margin to spare. This is my recommendation. Then buy that remote system I told you about.

The trouble with that is, the projection TV is more sensative to vertical viewing than it is to horizontal. Your eyes really need to be at mid screen level (without tilting the screen forward that it).

I absolutely agree. Do not sacrifice vertical shift of the DLP RPTV.

So I'm starting to think that getting stands to put the speakers at or about the 1/2 way point up the middle of the screen will be a good compromise. I can also play with their distance from the back wall to find a better location for bass. I'd like to get all the speakers in the best position before adding a sub, that way I'm not band-aiding a bad setup.

Great ideas. I have only one thing to add. I presume you are running the speakers in full-range, until the day the sub arrives. Instead of worrying about low bass response with the speaker positioning, Id focus on imaging and stage only. Or... if you want to place with everything in mind, then I would temporarily xover the speakers at say 80hz, and go from there. Make sense?

Thanks! From sitting in the prime position, if I stand up and take one step forward the bass is much better, I'll try moving the couch up and playing with speaker position a bit. Once I introduce a sub, I imagine the best spot will either by the front left corner of the room (where the table and turn table is now), or the back left corner (where the mirror is)???

Cheers,

Aaron

Hey, my pleasure. I suppose the front left is really the only candidate. I mean, c'mon, its the living room, and I presume that's the front door entrance at the mirror. If it makes you feel better, you probably have at least a tiny bit of play in pulling sub away from the front wall.

Ah... if you lose that DVD rack, you can pull everything to the right. Not only would you possibly gain a little more sub placement flexibility, the left speaker is further from the left wall boundary. Sometimes, in such a commonplace situation as yours, having one speaker close to the boundary makes the stage heavier on that side. One can add beefy broadband treatments like I did, but in your case you're not going to be able to do that. Its worth keeping in mind, in any case...

Cheers.

 

[tattoo_Dan]

Thanks!

BTW,I think we have very similar tv's,I have the SS HL-S6187W,I really like my TV.

 

[poutanen]

Would you be absolutely against simply pulling the stand out several inches? Then you can push the TV back further. My guess is that there will be space available while maintaining safety of TV placement, with the TV's "pedestal" completely on the stand, even with margin to spare. This is my recommendation. Then buy that remote system I told you about.

Yeah I could do that. I've already got a 3-4" lip in front of the TV, so I could pull the stand out another 4-5" and leave the TV in the same spot (relative to the wall). That'd give me a roughly 8" lip to work with. And by the time I have the centre in front of the TV, I might as well put the L and R back up there too. Before I got the TV I had three of these speakers on their sides on the stand, and although the distance between the L-C-R wasn't as large, there was less reflection from the walls, so methinks it sounded better.

Great ideas. I have only one thing to add. I presume you are running the speakers in full-range, until the day the sub arrives. Instead of worrying about low bass response with the speaker positioning, Id focus on imaging and stage only. Or... if you want to place with everything in mind, then I would temporarily xover the speakers at say 80hz, and go from there. Make sense?

Yeah fair enough, I just wanted to get these setup as "flat" as possible before adding in something that would potentially band-aid something I'd overlooked.

Hey, my pleasure. I suppose the front left is really the only candidate. I mean, c'mon, its the living room, and I presume that's the front door entrance at the mirror. If it makes you feel better, you probably have at least a tiny bit of play in pulling sub away from the front wall.

Ah... if you lose that DVD rack, you can pull everything to the right. Not only would you possibly gain a little more sub placement flexibility, the left speaker is further from the left wall boundary. Sometimes, in such a commonplace situation as yours, having one speaker close to the boundary makes the stage heavier on that side. One can add beefy broadband treatments like I did, but in your case you're not going to be able to do that. Its worth keeping in mind, in any case...

Cheers.

Agreed, I was thinking about using speaker stands on either side of the TV stand, but if I can get all three up on the stand with the TV, then I'll be able to slide the whole thing over further to the right. This'll leave more room for a bigger sub up there! LOL

The only thing good about the DVD rack is it blocks the view of all the wires and **** behind the TV. I guess I could get some kinda hanging plant over there or something to add to the chick factor... lol

Thanks again!

 

[jostenmeat]

poutanen, you want to keep those speakers in the vertical arrangement. NOT on its side. Vertically arrayed drivers are best, and there's reason for that.

 

[poutanen]

poutanen, you want to keep those speakers in the vertical arrangement. NOT on its side. Vertically arrayed drivers are best, and there's reason for that.

Hmmm, that throws a wrench into the plan for centre as I was hoping to use another of the same speaker. Maybe I'm best to just go with a 4.1 setup for now, until I get the itch to change speakers and go for some HSU's or something...

The 4.1 setup would be easy to do, with speaker stands on either side and the TV can stay where it is...

 

[poutanen]

BTW,I think we have very similar tv's,I have the SS HL-S6187W,I really like my TV.

I was hoping to at least check out the 61", and maybe buy it vs. the 67", but I couldn't find anybody around me that sold it! This might be a stupid question, but now that you've had it for a bit, how do you like the TV? I had an InFocus IN72 projector and 76" high contrast screen before this (DLP projector, 480p) so I'm already a fan of DLP projection. The fact that this 67" comes with the newer LED light engine was the selling point for me! No lamps to change as long as these LEDs keep going...

 

[tattoo_Dan]

I was hoping to at least check out the 61", and maybe buy it vs. the 67", but I couldn't find anybody around me that sold it! This might be a stupid question, but now that you've had it for a bit, how do you like the TV? I had an InFocus IN72 projector and 76" high contrast screen before this (DLP projector, 480p) so I'm already a fan of DLP projection. The fact that this 67" comes with the newer LED light engine was the selling point for me! No lamps to change as long as these LEDs keep going...

I love this TV,I have nothing bad so say about it,it's the perfect size for the room it's in,and for the windows and lighting in the room the DLP is just right IMO,,,the room is 19x17ft.

I have HD comcast and am addicted,I know I should have waited for the LED units,but I couldn't pass up the deal I got on this one.

that's a real nice tv you have I couldn't tell what size it was,67" !??!?!!?!? cool !

 

[jostenmeat]

Hmmm, that throws a wrench into the plan for centre as I was hoping to use another of the same speaker. Maybe I'm best to just go with a 4.1 setup for now, until I get the itch to change speakers and go for some HSU's or something...

Sorry bout that. Just for future reference, I did some research on better designed horiz center speakers. Of those, KEF products were definitely the shortest as far as their horiz centers. Coincidental design can be shorter than top mounted, WTMW for instance. I am unfamiliar with their sound, and some call them bright, but a coax design is a very good one, particularly for phase (to avoid off-axis lobing).

The 4.1 setup would be easy to do, with speaker stands on either side and the TV can stay where it is...

For sure. If the centering is good enough for you, the only other negative thing I can think of right now is some compression from running 3 channels into two. However, I doubt that matters that much unless you are listening quite loudly.