Burr-Brown DACs vs. the others

[ahender]

Hi:

I have been researching AV receivers for several weeks now.

I am very close to getting the Onkyo 705 (new for $390).

After reading about 100 reviews comparing the 705 with the Onkyo 805, the main differences that show up are the larger amplifier section in the 805 and the DACs used -- Burr-Brown vs. Cirrus.

Not having had a descent audio system for several years, anything I buy will be sweet to my ears.

My question to all the audiophiles out there -- it you sat 100 people down in a room and asked them to compare the Onkyo 705 (Cirrus chip) with the 805 (Burr-Brown chip), both running off a separate power amplifier, would there be a consensus as to which sounded better?

Of all the user comparison reviews I have read between the two receivers, only one reviewer had actually compared the two in a room and he liked the 805 better.

Most everyone, however, noted that the 805 was better because it had the Burr-Brown DACs and larger amp section.

I know this is all hypothetical.

I welcome your feedback.

Thanks ... Alan

My current TV is a Westinghouse 32" HD display. I plan to get the Oppo 980H DVD player and Ascend Sierra speakers (5.1 setup).

Total budget for AV setup will be <$2000.

Future additions will be a separate power amp, larger display and Blue-Ray player.

 

[bandphan]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43946&highlight=burr+brown

 

[ahender]

Excellent reference you posted.

Thanks.

With that, I am going with the Onkyo 705.

alan

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43946&highlight=burr+brown

Hey, yeah, excellent reference. The guy who posted that must be really cool or something.

 

[jostenmeat]

Excellent reference you posted.

Thanks.

With that, I am going with the Onkyo 705.

alan

alan, you are intelligently building a nice system. I also would have been happy with a 705 as my HT pre, but at the time of my refurbed 805 purchase, the costs were close to identical.

I believe the 705 must be the most affordable thing that has Audyssey XT. Please note its considerable improvement from vanilla MultiEQ. AT least 8x of an increase in filtering resolution, which means hundreds of filters. Its the best version of Aud available that does not require a paid professional to calibrate with the assistance of greater processing power available only in an outboard computer.

 

[dssmith999]

Dac’s probably make a big difference but only if they are the weakest link in the system. Also every other device in the chain (source, power supply, amp, opamp, speakers, EQ) should be considered also. But consider the high definition codec’s and how could they sound better on (the same system) than the standard ones if improving processing chain did not make a difference how would this be possible? The 705 should be able to deliver very good SQ especially if you are using the high def codec’s and be within a very small % of the high dollar receivers on everything else also!!

 

[jvgillow]

I had an Onkyo 705 for a month and bought an 805. The 705 has a higher noise floor and I had an issue with hum when any HDMI device was connected and actively playing sound and the master volume was close to reference level. If you read that huge 705 thread on AVS there are a number of other people with the "HDMI issue" as well. Apparently it happens because Onkyo used a single power supply to feed both the digital video section and the audio section. So even if you use external amps like I did, the problem still is there. The 805 does not have this issue with 2 separate power supplies.

The 805 does get quite a bit hotter though.

 

[MatthewB.]

I think the 805 is the bargain basement deal of the century with all that you get. Not only does the 805 outweigh the 705 by 16 pounds it has the same DAC that is in Denon's 7,000.00 receiver. Just a powerhouse, and the fact that both are so close in cost, it would be foolish to consider not getting the 805, because if your like me, you'll spend the next few years wishing you had spent the extra 75.00 to get the beasty 805 instead of thinking "what if".

I have the more costly Denon 3808ci and the Onkyo 805 and although the Denon has the better GUI on screen features, the Onkyo actually sounds a tad better than the Denon. And that says alot because I am true die hard Denon fan.

 

[phildoc]

I'm not sure the type of DAC has that much to do with sound quality. I have a Marantz SR9600, which has Cirrus Logic DACs. It had rave reviews. Won some product of the year awards and is still listed as an Ultimate choice for receivers by UltimateAVmag. What the reviewers raved about the most is its excellent SQ.

Not what you'd expect just be going by the DACs it has and frankly, I thought about not getting it simply because it did not have Burr Brown DACs. Ultimately, the reviews and the name won over and I couldn't be happier. The SQ is noticably better then the RX-V1 it replaced, which has Burr Brown DACs.

Maybe manufacturers tend to use the Burr Browns simply because that's what customers are looking for and in reality with all the other electronics involved it really doesn't matter which DAC is used.

 

[jostenmeat]

Apparently it happens because Onkyo used a single power supply to feed both the digital video section and the audio section. So even if you use external amps like I did, the problem still is there. The 805 does not have this issue with 2 separate power supplies.

I didn't know that, and I'm happy to have learned. Thanks.

The 805 does get quite a bit hotter though.

Have you considered switching its impedance to 4 ohms? It drops the temp significantly. Some might advise in re-running Audyssey, however, not too sure there.

 

[dssmith999]

I had the 805 for less than 30 days. Never burst into flames either. The first one had a broken component switch so it went back. In the end the lipsync issue caused me to make another refurb available for sale. Now I have come full circle and have a 906 and the issues have been corrected and I am very pleased. Every manufacturer will have a problem product but with Onkyo the bang for the buck is impressive. I am on the preorder list for the Emo umc1 at full price and I am thinking I will not testdrive it.

 

[Buckster]

DACs don't really account for much tbh, much more important is implementation, power supply, and IMO output opamps

for instance I've had the joy to own and try (and loose money over) the following AV amps recently

Yamaha RX-V3800 BB 1791 DACs
Pioneer SC-05 Wolfson 8740 DACs
Arcam AVR350 Wolfson WM8770 (multi DAC - ie all DACs on one chip)

so the SC-05 should sound best, followed by the 3800, followed by the Arcam ?

not even close the Arcam sounds far better than the other 2 !

Mark.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Excellent reference you posted.

Thanks.

With that, I am going with the Onkyo 705.

alan

Is that a silver color for that price? where did you buy?

 

[mtrycrafts]

... If you read that huge 705 thread on AVS there are a number of other people with the "HDMI issue" as well. .

I wonder if that high noise floor from the preamp or the power amp, or both? Yes, that is a long post.

 

[Geno]

IMHO, worrying about which brand of DAC is in a receiver is about as useful as worring about what kind of set screws are holding the volume knob in place. (I'll bet Mapleshades has special 'audiophile' grade set screws that'll make your system sound more 'chocklety' than those mass-market ones) (Forgive me for this silliness - I just got a new Mapleshades catalog, and it's chock full of some of the most hilarious woo-woo in audio idiocy)

 

[dobyblue]

There are so many different DAC's even within Burr Brown and in addition how they're implemented (how many per channel, stereo/mono, etc.) that you can't just base it on which kind are used.

I would point out that the TX-SR805 does have better benchmark performance for distortion and it can handle DSD>Analog conversion directly without converting to PCM which the TX-SR705 cannot do.

 

[3db]

I had an Onkyo 705 for a month and bought an 805. The 705 has a higher noise floor and I had an issue with hum when any HDMI device was connected and actively playing sound and the master volume was close to reference level. If you read that huge 705 thread on AVS there are a number of other people with the "HDMI issue" as well. Apparently it happens because Onkyo used a single power supply to feed both the digital video section and the audio section. So even if you use external amps like I did, the problem still is there. The 805 does not have this issue with 2 separate power supplies.

The 805 does get quite a bit hotter though.

That seems to inidcate a powersupplky design issue and not DACs

 

[Stephen Novosel]

Gene, Hugo,

I realize that this thread is several years old but having read it, I still am confused about how one goes about making a purchasing decision when DACs are a significant part of the equation.

In my case, I want to be able to plug a Beatles Limited Edition USB into a Sony BDP-S6500 bluray player and play the flac files via the coax output into a ESYNIC digital to analog audio converter that gets routed to a preamp.

So, do I need to stress over the "quality" of the DAC in the Sony and/or the one on the conversion board in the ESYNIC? Or will my so-called stressing be much ado about nothing because the ultimate sonic difference between my proposed chain versus an alternate is not going to amount to much, if anything? Any when I say "much" I mean that the differences may be apparent if one listens intently for those differences but without that strict focus one would not be aware of a difference. I am not going to care if on any given track Paul's bass is 2db louder or not.

I chose the Sony S6500 only because it can play SACDs and flac files (via the USB front port). It's the least expensive option in that regard. But if there is a significant, i.e. clearly audible, sonic difference by using a different arrangement, I'm not opposed to spending more.

Any insight into this?

 

[TLS Guy]

Gene, Hugo,

I realize that this thread is several years old but having read it, I still am confused about how one goes about making a purchasing decision when DACs are a significant part of the equation.

In my case, I want to be able to plug a Beatles Limited Edition USB into a Sony BDP-S6500 bluray player and play the flac files via the coax output into a ESYNIC digital to analog audio converter that gets routed to a preamp.

So, do I need to stress over the "quality" of the DAC in the Sony and/or the one on the conversion board in the ESYNIC? Or will my so-called stressing be much ado about nothing because the ultimate sonic difference between my proposed chain versus an alternate is not going to amount to much, if anything? Any when I say "much" I mean that the differences may be apparent if one listens intently for those differences but without that strict focus one would not be aware of a difference. I am not going to care if on any given track Paul's bass is 2db louder or not.

I chose the Sony S6500 only because it can play SACDs and flac files (via the USB front port). It's the least expensive option in that regard. But if there is a significant, i.e. clearly audible, sonic difference by using a different arrangement, I'm not opposed to spending more.

Any insight into this?

Stop stressing!

What preamp are we talking about? Does it have a DAC.

The only thing I would say is that you want to avoid multiple conversions. If the preamp has a DAC then make sure that does the conversion.

 

[sterling shoote]

In the beginning, I'm talking back in 1992, I purchased a Sony PCM-7010F DAT Recorder. I was and still am impressed with the unit's Burr Brown ADC and DAC device. At any rate, I've not yet heard anything better than the sound that I get from this recorder. Today, I used one of these recorders to copy an LP I just bought; and, I'd dare anyone to distinguish the LP from the DAT copy. Burr Brown, yeah baby.