Bag End PM6 active studio monitors

[MidnightSensi]

I recently purchased Bag End’s new PM6 powered monitors (while I’m the 152 buyer, they still haven’t updated their website with them, so I guess word travels fast) and also stopped by their factory. I’m a dj and starting to produce, so with the new loft apartment I’m doing some work on I figured I’d buy myself some new monitors. Bag End came into the runnings from my positive experiences with them in the pro sound arena, which is quiet simply that they sound excellent. Then I found out the other end of the spectrum from club soundsystems, audiophile magazines (like Michael Fremer saying their INFRA subs were the best he has ever heard), and Electronic Musician saying the same. Then some friends in the know recommended them too.

The PM6’s are powered time-aligned nearfield monitors with one coaxially mounted 1” neodymium tweeter and a 6” woofer. I think MSRP is about 800 bucks each, but you’ll pay more than 100 bucks less than that. Here is the datasheet on the passive one, they haven’t made one for the active yet but you can call and they’ll tell you whatever you want to know:

http://www.bagend.com/bagend/downloads/m6singlepage.pdf

In my guerilla studio (real one still getting put together)

They are pretty plain rectangular boxes, fairly large with a very industrial finish. They have no power button, only binding power inputs and XRL connections in the back. When they are powered they shine a green LED through the cloth grill from a LED hidden inside the Bag End logo printed under the driver (when you remove the grill you see it). I honestly would like a power button.

The sound quality is unbelievable. The best imaging I’ve ever heard, and I’d go so far as to say the speakers disappear when I close my eyes. You have to hear these speakers, period. They are designed to be paired with a subwoofer (M&K K-10 in the guerilla studio), I crossed over at 75Hz. WAF is low, and active speakers of course require outlets (there is a passive version of this as well) which can be a problem in some homes. Output is pretty spectacular for their size, but they are certainly near to mid field monitors. I'd use a bigger speaker in a large home theater.

I also stopped by their plant during my stay in Illinois. Great people!

Okay since I’m tired of typing you guys have to help me out a bit, ask away.

 

[Haoleb]

I used to think your avatar was some kind of cartoon character, But i think now im leaning towards self portrait? Sunlight and the occasional glass of water is a good thing

 

[haraldo]

Very interesting read Sensi, so you're happy now, he he

You're obviously very much targeting straight what this hobby is about, sit down and enjoy the music.

Quite often small studio monitors show qualities that you just don't get in larger speakers, the larger speakers will play louder and extract more bass and technically be better, but when it comes to the pleasure of listening to music... small monitors very often does it best.

I can think of many good things about your setup

• Nearfield listening takes very much of room acoustics out of the question as the direct sound from speakers is very strong compared to what comes from the room, and first reflections from wall is probably almost of no consequence
• Less diffraction issues with such a small cabinet
• Easier to control resonances in small cabinet
• While speakers being active any aberrations with drivers may be corrected in amplifier instead of crossover, which means simpler crossover with less "loss", simpler crossover also probably means better speaker dynamics.
• There's probably a reason for not being a power switch, some of the pro gear is designed to be constantly on. Try to leave the speakers on for a couple of days, and see if you can hear a difference, wouldn't be surprised if you will.
• My impression is that some of the pro gear provide better value and higher performance/price ratio than much of the consumer gear.

Have you tried to raise or tilt the speakers to see how that affects balance?
Do you use spikes under speakers? I suggest using three spikes and not four, with three spikes your speakers will be more steady and better coupled to the base than with four spikes.

Enjoy

The bagend subs look quite interesting too

 

[MidnightSensi]

I used to think your avatar was some kind of cartoon character, But i think now im leaning towards self portrait? Sunlight and the occasional glass of water is a good thing

I was going to clean up from Friday but figured since its audioHOLICS i'd just leave it for the laughs. I'm more of a Top Gear reader than a Autoweek reader if that makes sense, gotta keep things interesting for the readers!

Very interesting read Sensi, so you're happy now, he he

You're obviously very much targeting straight what this hobby is about, sit down and enjoy the music.

Yeah, I've been really enjoying just chilling and listening to music. I'm supposed to be working with them but I'm just using them for play so far haha. Be done with that in a few months, pretty excited!!

Quite often small studio monitors show qualities that you just don't get in larger speakers, the larger speakers will play louder and extract more bass and technically be better, but when it comes to the pleasure of listening to music... small monitors very often does it best.

I can think of many good things about your setup

• Nearfield listening takes very much of room acoustics out of the question as the direct sound from speakers is very strong compared to what comes from the room, and first reflections from wall is probably almost of no consequence
• Less diffraction issues with such a small cabinet
• Easier to control resonances in small cabinet
• While speakers being active any aberrations with drivers may be corrected in amplifier instead of crossover, which means simpler crossover with less "loss", simpler crossover also probably means better speaker dynamics.
• There's probably a reason for not being a power switch, some of the pro gear is designed to be constantly on. Try to leave the speakers on for a couple of days, and see if you can hear a difference, wouldn't be surprised if you will.
• My impression is that some of the pro gear provide better value and higher performance/price ratio than much of the consumer gear.

Nod. These are time-align monitors also, which is described better here than I can: http://www.bagend.com/bagend/what_is_ta.htm

The lack of a power button doesn't really bother me, especially because I can always just flip the switch on my APC if I want to turn them off, but why would I hear a difference after they have been on for a while?

Have you tried to raise or tilt the speakers to see how that affects balance?
Do you use spikes under speakers? I suggest using three spikes and not four, with three spikes your speakers will be more steady and better coupled to the base than with four spikes.

Enjoy

The bagend subs look quite interesting too

They are about ear level on the desk...

Depending on how they sit on my new desk I'll probably look at some monitors stands.

I've also been playing with toe-in a bit, but I'm going to worry more about perfect placement once the new place is done because this setup is very temperary.

Thanks for the awesome reponse man!!!

 

[haraldo]

Yeah, they are coaxial speakers, I forgot

I think time alignment and impulse coherence of speakers is very important, many people around here disagree with me and will probably fight me till their death on this

Well, after living with phase perfect, time aligned Duntech speakers for more than a decade.... I think it makes a difference.... and, well, that's only my opinion....

Something more on this here:
http://www.duntech.com.au/images/all.html

http://www.thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site05/Pages/FAQs/faqtimephase.html

The benchmark DAC-1 sounds better when it has been turned on for a few days, don't ask me why, but it's the same with the Krell Kav400-xi amp too.

Perhaps it's because the electronics is tuned in to work at a given operating temperature, and when it's cold, some components change their value very very slightly, but enough to hear a difference.... It's just trying and see what happens....

Harald

 

[MidnightSensi]

Yeah, they are coaxial speakers, I forgot

I think time alignment and impulse coherence of speakers is very important, many people around here disagree with me and will probably fight me till their death on this

Well, after living with phase perfect, time aligned Duntech speakers for more than a decade.... I think it makes a difference.... and, well, that's only my opinion....

Something more on this here:
http://www.duntech.com.au/images/all.html

http://www.thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site05/Pages/FAQs/faqtimephase.html

Well I won't fight you on it, that's for sure. I can't believe the sound of these. I buy speakers all the time and would never bother to write a review on them, but since there have been some open minds into the pro markets on here I figured I'd share. I'm happier with these than the Dynaudio BM5s, which is like saying I'm happier with a Porsche than a Ferrari ... I'd take either.

I've been listening to these fairly loud too and I've experienced no fatigue, I've also noticed that I can mix them a lot lower than I otherwise do with these and not feeling like I'm missing out on any accuracy which is pretty spectacular.

The subwoofer demonstration they gave me at the shop was probably the clearest bass I've ever heard, and my next buy will probably be a INFRA processor and either their INFRA-18 Professional or the double-10".

I also have my eye on their E-Trap (active bass trap) when they come out with some easier to use software for it (which they are working on):
http://www.stereophile.com/musicintheround/708mitr/index1.html

The benchmark DAC-1 sounds better when it has been turned on for a few days, don't ask me why, but it's the same with the Krell Kav400-xi amp too.

Perhaps it's because the electronics is tuned in to work at a given operating temperature, and when it's cold, some components change their value very very slightly, but enough to hear a difference.... It's just trying and see what happens....

Harald

Interesting. I will let you know if I notice any difference. They've been on for the last few days so I'm sure they are warmed up.

 

[haraldo]

So you say these better the Dynaudio's

I absolutelty love Dynaudio speakers, enjoyed every model I listened to, but I never heard the active pro speakers....

And you really think these are better.... bl%¤#@ he##

I'm going to have speakers for kitchen, bedroom, bathroom... really need to check these out.... music in every room

For myself I have been quite shocked (in a positive way) by the Audioengine 2 active speakers, they're much smaller and made for other usage, but to bring these speakers on holidays/vacations

Audioengine 2's are very very good when you need smaller and less expensive speakers on the road (read: travelling by air) unreal performance for this low price tag.

Bag end E-traps seem interesting, I'm still not sure if they will obsolete the big ugly bass traps because you also need to control decay time in the bass, and I don't see how they can do that, but probably a very good supplement...

Another way could be to use two layers of 4 inch Rockwool fibreglass acoustic board in the corners, diagonally so they cut the corners, and then paint them in same color as the wall, they will steal quite a lot of real estate in corners, but will not be really noticeable because they "fit into the room" the room just gets smaller in the corners.

Very very cheap to do, just need to do this.....

 

[MidnightSensi]

So you say these better the Dynaudio's

I absolutelty love Dynaudio speakers, enjoyed every model I listened to, but I never heard the active pro speakers....

And you really think these are better.... bl%¤#@ he##

I'm going to have speakers for kitchen, bedroom, bathroom... really need to check these out.... music in every room

For sure, you /have/ to check them out.

To be fair, they are more expensive than BM5As, but yup I think I like them better. I'll have a for sure answer after I have spent more time with the Bag End's.

Bag end E-traps seem interesting, I'm still not sure if they will obsolete the big ugly bass traps because you also need to control decay time in the bass, and I don't see how they can do that, but probably a very good supplement...

Another way could be to use two layers of 4 inch Rockwool fibreglass acoustic board in the corners, diagonally so they cut the corners, and then paint them in same color as the wall, they will steal quite a lot of real estate in corners, but will not be really noticeable because they "fit into the room" the room just gets smaller in the corners.

Very very cheap to do, just need to do this.....

I'm going to order room treatments for my new place (in the studio not the living room) and probably an E-Trap once there is easier to use software for it. They aren't not recommending this over room treatments, they are recommending it over EQing. Basically the idea is that if you EQ bass down, for example, and it is resonating in the room, the EQ will lower the level but not get rid of the resonance. So it will be better, but, not really solve the problem. Actually they highly recommended using room treatments over EQing.