What THX Ultra 2 receiver should I get?

T

tom67

Full Audioholic
Thx

The THX designation is about dead....just a matter of a small payoff to the grantor. Few are stressing it now, and certainly not a reason to buy equipment.....kind of like the "deluxe" lable put on products in the 50s and 60s.....
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
Let me correct myself, the ICE amps may sound different. I am not up on the new application of the Class D technology, and not ready to embrace it.

Rotel is pushing it, but I just don't see a 13lb amp producing the same amount of grunt as a 30lb amp.
 
Last edited:
C

CrimsonKing

Enthusiast
The Pioneer SC-07 is 40 pounds. I'm starting to think the pioneer or the denon. I can get them locally. The Onkyo I cannot. Is class D tech something that I should not go for?
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
The Pioneer SC-07 is 40 pounds. I'm starting to think the pioneer or the denon. I can get them locally. The Onkyo I cannot. Is class D tech something that I should not go for?
I was comparing a 5-channel Rotel 100W class d(13lb) to a 5-channel Rotel 120W ab(30lb). Stand-alone amps.

I don't know the answer to the class d question, other than the fact that I was not ready to give it a try.

I don't know about your local dealers, but mine think everyone is an idiot. I end-up buying online every time. I do honestly give the local guys first dibs, just because it's the right thing to do.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Class D has proven to me, in sound and in measurements, to be very reliable and sonically accurate. The weight isn't a factor to be considered when comparing unlike amplifier topologies.;)
 
Chopin_Guy

Chopin_Guy

Senior Audioholic
Wow this thread developed alot....

Anyhow, I would have to second a vote for the 3808ci. Although, the reviews of the Pioneer have been very favorable as well. As Zumbo mentioned, there will be no audible difference in the two---being conventional amplifier vs. the ice amps. Although I would have to think the Denon has an interface advantage with the new GUI which is absolutely fantastic and makes set-up and tweaking so clear and easy to do...
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
As Zumbo mentioned, there will be no audible difference in the two---being conventional amplifier vs. the ice amps.
I actually changed my position on this in post #22, as I have heard conflicting opinions.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
Class D has proven to me, in sound and in measurements, to be very reliable and sonically accurate. The weight isn't a factor to be considered when comparing unlike amplifier topologies.;)
What about POWER CONSUMPTION?.

Rotel states their 5-channel class d can produce 200W x 5 @4ohm, but yet the power consumption spec is 280W.

Rotel states their 5-channel class ab can produce 200W x 5 @4ohm, and the power consumption spec is 800W.

I don't know about you guys, but I would be more comfortable with option 2.
 
Chopin_Guy

Chopin_Guy

Senior Audioholic
Well not that I have listened to alot of ICE amps as of yet.....basically just those in the new Pioneer AVR, but I myself did not notice any significant audible differences. Of course, alot of this most certainly comes own to more than the amp itself....

None the less, I would still stand by the 3808ci over the Pioneer...
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
What about POWER CONSUMPTION?.

Rotel states their 5-channel class d can produce 200W x 5 @4ohm, but yet the power consumption spec is 280W.

Rotel states their 5-channel class ab can produce 200W x 5 @4ohm, and the power consumption spec is 800W.

I don't know about you guys, but I would be more comfortable with option 2.
Power consumption ratings on the rear of your components aren't a really good indicator on how to rate an amplifier's performance. Those are often nominal ratings that don't reflect dynamic power draws. Also keep it close in your mind that Class D is more efficient than Class A/B. Since it doesn't waste as much energy (heat dissapation) the rated power consumption and dynamic power should be less than a conventional Class A/B amplifier.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
Power consumption ratings on the rear of your components aren't a really good indicator on how to rate an amplifier's performance. Those are often nominal ratings that don't reflect dynamic power draws. Also keep it close in your mind that Class D is more efficient than Class A/B. Since it doesn't waste as much energy (heat dissapation) the rated power consumption and dynamic power should be less than a conventional Class A/B amplifier.
Those are not the ratings on the back of the units, they are the ratings in the specs.

My Adcom specs 175W x 5 @4ohm, and the power consumption spec is 800W.
It states 1680W max on the rear.

I have read all of the selling points, but have yet to see a real world test.

I believe Audioholics may test the Rotels.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
I remember when Cerwin Vega replaced my beloved D-series speakers with a new line. The big selling point was how efficient the speakers were. Efficient they may have been, but they $u(ked compared to my D-series. And, each new model has $u(ked ever since.

The fact is, Pioneer has not been selling near the units Denon, Yamaha, and Onkyo have. Neither has Rotel. They both need a good ad campaign.

I may be wrong here, but times are tough.
 
G

Gov

Senior Audioholic
Listen to the 3808 and the SC-05. Then you decide what sounds better. But, this has to be done in your environment with your equipment.
 
ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
Pretty sure, if they are calibrated the same and in the same listening room, they would sound the same. The SC series are very sexy looking and you cant go wrong with an ICE amp but for me, the GUI and OSD of the 3808 won over.
Listen to the 3808 and the SC-05. Then you decide what sounds better. But, this has to be done in your environment with your equipment.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
To me it really depends on your needs and how much you are willing to pay. If money is no object then any of the Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha top of the line models will be good and are THX certified to the limit. If budget is tight then you can pick from the lower models in the Pioneer line up. However, like Seth=L, my pick will also be the Onkyo, for its superior power output and the Reon chip even though I won't use it but its free (as long as it can be turned off but that's just me). I do strongly suggest you get one with an Ethernet port for ease of web based features and firmware upgrades. I know I am repeating what has been said many times on this forum, if an amp is designed and build to amplifier the input signal linearly without adding audible distortion, it should not have its own sound when operated within its design limits regardless of whether is is class A, A/B, or D.

Regarding those power consumption figures, those (such as Seth=L) who have read enough of them in spec sheets, will know that they are mainly there to give you an idea how much power it may consume under certain usage conditions. As such, it is almost possible that manufacturers may actually be tempted to post lower numbers that is allowable within existing codes and regulations that apply to their products (or appliance:D). There are a few exceptions, Harman Kardon and most recently Yamaha, do tend to provide both "nominal (they imply this by omissioin)" and "maximum" power consumption numbers. Some power amps do that too, Zumbo has already given an example. When the "maximum" consumption figure is given, you will find that the "ACD" output number roughly equals to 45 to 60% of the "maximum" number.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
This is pretty intense.

Once you get to this level of receivers, the competition really heats-up.

Some like Yamaha, some like Denon, some like Onkyo, and some like Pioneer.

At this point, I would say the final decision should be made by hands-on demo of each unit. They are all going to perform well.

Play with the remote features, as this will be one of the most important things you will deal with once you get home.

Go to manufacturers web-sites, and read the manuals for each. Nothing worse than a (rappy manual.

You will spend a lot of time, I mean a lot, with the remote in one hand, and the manual in the other.

Lastly, since you seem to want to buy locally, the dealer preference may also play an important role. If one store has many other items/brands you may be interseted in for future up-grades, you may want to put their receiver brand at the top of your list. Nothing wrong with starting a relationship with a good dealer, as this will lead to better service/deals in the future.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
To me it really depends on your needs and how much you are willing to pay. If money is no object then any of the Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha top of the line models will be good and are THX certified to the limit. If budget is tight then you can pick from the lower models in the Pioneer line up. However, like Seth=L, my pick will also be the Onkyo, for its superior power output and the Reon chip even though I won't use it but its free (as long as it can be turned off but that's just me). I do strongly suggest you get one with an Ethernet port for ease of web based features and firmware upgrades. I know I am repeating what has been said many times on this forum, if an amp is designed and build to amplifier the input signal linearly without adding audible distortion, it should not have its own sound when operated within its design limits regardless of whether is is class A, A/B, or D.

Regarding those power consumption figures, those (such as Seth=L) who have read enough of them in spec sheets, will know that they are mainly there to give you an idea how much power it may consume under certain usage conditions. As such, it is almost possible that manufacturers may actually be tempted to post lower numbers that is allowable within existing codes and regulations that apply to their products (or appliance:D). There are a few exceptions, Harman Kardon and most recently Yamaha, do tend to provide both "nominal (they imply this by omissioin)" and "maximum" power consumption numbers. Some power amps do that too, Zumbo has already given an example. When the "maximum" consumption figure is given, you will find that the "ACD" output number roughly equals to 45 to 60% of the "maximum" number.
Thanks, I needed an authority on amps to explain this better than I can. I'm still learning day by day.:)
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks, I needed an authority on amps to explain this better than I can. I'm still learning day by day.:)
I am no authority on amps. I just know some of the electrical theories behind their designs, owned a few, and listened to a lot of them. By the way, as you mentioned before, class D amps are much more efficient so what I said about the relationship of ACD output to maximum power consumption (45 to 60%) should not apply to them.
 

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