Financial disaster with one common connection.

[Davemcc]

When I look at the current economic situation, bailouts, collapses, bankruptcies, etc., I see one common factor, government interference. In the financial collapse, we see the government distorting the mortgage market through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac urging private banks to make bad loans and buying them up.

In the auto industry, we see the government demanding ever increasing fuel mileage based on non-existent technology that costs billions to develop even as they also demand ever increasing safety features that add weight and hurt mileage. Never mind the product liability issues that arise from such things as police cars being rear ended at 70 MPH, as if there is a way to make such an event 100% safe.

In the gas industry, the government has virtually eliminated competition in the market by making it virtually impossible to build a new refinery in North America. The price of crude is only one defining factor in fuel prices. No refinery has been built since the 70's. The companies that own refineries have a virtual lock on the market and can charge whatever they want for their product. Crude supply can be in a glut, but if they don't refine it, you can't pump it.

In all the areas where the economy is in trouble, the meddling hands of the government are intimately involved in the factors leading to problem. I've heard arguments that the free market doesn't work, but with so much government interference in the market, I would argue that we do not have, nor have we ever had, a free market. Further, I would add that government interference is the cause of all the current economic problems and that bailouts are simply the government paying for it's own failures in the economy. And since the public elected the government, the public will pay.

 

[soundhound]

No, what we see is corporate lobbyists using their power and influence to deregulate key industries so they can profit more, causing mega problems down the road when everything melts down. From Enron to the current credit crisis/collapse, the problem has been too little government, not too much.

 

[dorokusai]

One common thread? No kidding. It's Barney Frank Frank and Chris Dodd from the Clinton years.

The crude problem starts @ OPEC and the rest is just greed.

Mark

 

[Rickster71]

No, what we see is corporate lobbyists using their power and influence to deregulate key industries so they can profit more, causing mega problems down the road when everything melts down. From Enron to the current credit crisis/collapse, the problem has been too little government, not too much.

For those that clearly don't know the origin of this mess, here is a link to a New York Post article. Hope it helps.
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/thank-acorn-and-their-ilk-for-mortgage-crisis

 

[soundhound]

For those that clearly don't know the origin of this mess, here is a link to a New York Post article. Hope it helps.
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/thank-acorn-and-their-ilk-for-mortgage-crisis

It's ACORN's fault?

Bahahahhahhah, sarcasm doesn't translate on the internet. You need to add some smileys to your post so people will know you're not serious.

In the off-chance you are, here's one for you.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclosure-phil.html

 

[Rickster71]

It's ACORN's fault?

Bahahahhahhah, sarcasm doesn't translate on the internet. You need to add some smileys to your post so people will know you're not serious.

Sounds like you didn't read the whole article; just the title.

It's written by Stan J. Liebowitz Ph.D. a Research Fellow at The Independent Institute and Ashbel Smith Professor of Economics and Director of the Center for the Analysis of Property Rights and Innovation at the University of Texas at Dallas.

The origins of the problem predate the article you've mentioned.

 

[soundhound]

Sounds like you didn't read the whole article; just the title.

It's written by Stan J. Liebowitz Ph.D. a Research Fellow at The Independent Institute and Ashbel Smith Professor of Economics and Director of the Center for the Analysis of Property Rights and Innovation at the University of Texas at Dallas.

The origins of the problem predate the article you've mentioned.

I read enough to know it's another lame attempt to blame blacks, the poor, other minorities and big bad regulation, when in fact the problems were created by republican deregulation.

btw, someone's so-called "credentials" have nothing to do with the validity of their argument or claims. I really don't care how many PhD's someone has if they're wrong.

 

[Davemcc]

For those that clearly don't know the origin of this mess, here is a link to a New York Post article. Hope it helps.
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/thank-acorn-and-their-ilk-for-mortgage-crisis

That article is right on, but it only scratches the surface of political involvement in the mortgage markets.

 

[fredk]

Hmm... Look north to the country with the most stable financial system in the world... at the moment. Us Canadians are much more regulated yet in much less trouble.

Problems do not have their root in any given political or economic system.

The crash of 29 has a lot in common with what has happened recently and at that time there was even less regulation.

There is however a common thread: too much credit and cash floating around in a system that is seen by some as their personal trough.

 

[the grunt]

There is however a common thread: too much credit and cash floating around in a system that is seen by some as their personal trough

Bingo! And I would say that just about every one of us living in the “developed” world bears some guilt for growing accustomed to the post WWII economic boom and thinking that it’s our right to always have an increasing standard of living. Not much point in blaming politicians or corporate types when most of us are eating from the trough. I wonder how many people out there aren’t living to one degree or another on borrowed money.

 

[MidnightSensi]

....So nobody has any idea really so here is a rabbit with a pancake on its head:

 

[Tomorrow]

No, what we see is corporate lobbyists using their power and influence.

Ooh, evil corporations. Yeah.

But you might have forgotten a few non-corporate lobbyists using their power and influence. Lemme see who frequently flexes their muscles...we could start with the unions...teachers, auto workers, SEIU, ASCFME, etc. Or then there are the associations such as the trial attorney's, NAACP, AARP, etc. And how about those influential and/or super rich media and celebrity folks?! Others?...most assuredly.

It's all about power and influence in politics. No one has clean hands, soundhound. What we have is a sick political system, not a partisan powerplay. And not only is the economy becoming bankrupt, so too is the education, drive, and morality (used in its broadest sense) of too many people in this country.

 

[annunaki]

I don't know how many times I have mentioned it but if the money is taken out of Washington many of the problems go away. By money I mean lobbyists, special interest groups, unions, etc.


The other side of the coin is to get rid of career politicians to rid ourselves of a political elite class. Term limits for all offices state and federal.

This will allow a constant flow of the best minds (doctors, engineer, CEO's, lawyers, scientists, etc.) in the country to offer their service in a political office hopefully keeping in mind what is best for the country and it's citizens.

 

[Rickster71]

I read enough to know it's another lame attempt to blame blacks, the poor, other minorities and big bad regulation, when in fact the problems were created by republican deregulation.

Hardly; it is an example of how blacks, the poor, other minorities are used as tools, and pawns by politicians.
This problem has had it's roots in Social Engineering from the start.

Also, in politics no one party gets something, without giving something to the other. Politics has always been Quid pro quo.

btw, someone's so-called "credentials" have nothing to do with the validity of their argument or claims. I really don't care how many PhD's someone has if they're wrong.

Funny you mention that; I was going to say the same thing about the Strawman you propped up with the Mother Jones article. You will never find the truth, by searching in such a rabidly left wing site as Mother Jones.
You may want to look a little closer at Barney Frank, and Chris Dodd.

If you could remove you 'Rabid Left' glasses for a moment, you would realize, we are in this together as tax payers, and we are all being screwed.

 

[soundhound]

Hardly; it is an example of how blacks, the poor, other minorities are used as tools, and pawns by politicians.
This problem has had it's roots in Social Engineering from the start.

Also, in politics no one party gets something, without giving something to the other. Politics has always been Quid pro quo.



Funny you mention that; I was going to say the same thing about the Strawman you propped up with the Mother Jones article. You will never find the truth, by searching in such a rabidly left wing site as Mother Jones.
You may want to look a little closer at Barney Frank, and Chris Dodd.

If you could remove you 'Rabid Left' glasses for a moment, you would realize, we are in this together as tax payers, and we are all being screwed.

Sure we are. And why are we? Because lenders were allowed to do things that before being deregulated they were not allowed to do. Legislation like Glass Steagall protected us, and then republicans repealed it. When you have regulations that are designed to protect us being taken away by republicans under the influence of corporate lobbyists, what do you *think* is going to happen?

What's going to happen is that we're going to get screwed, and then the corporations are going to use their propaganda mouthpieces like rush limbaugh and fox news to convince uneducated voters that it's the fault of someone else (e.g., democrats, "liberals," poor people, blacks, minorities, environmentalists, ACORN, etc.), just like rush limbaugh this week is now trying to blame our economic woes on Obama! The guy isn't even in office yet, and the right wingers are already blaming him, while their guys have been running the country for 6 out of the last 8 years at least and deregulating more than anyone can imagine (which all started with Reagan, btw). Then those uneducated voters who have bought into the propaganda and think the republicans are on their side go out and support people who are screwing them over, and then we all get screwed over again. The past eight years proved nothing if they didn't prove the obvious: that the republican "trickle down" and libertarian-style greenspan "free market" ideas don't work.

Open your eyes. Poor people didn't cause any economic meltdown. Poor people have little to no power to do basically anything, let alone cause an economic meltdown.

 

[Rickster71]

Did you even read, and/or understand my last post?

How, and why, did the Democratic controlled Congress allow all this to happen?
It was Quid pro quo, for allowing 'Red lining' of mortgages, to people that could not afford any type of loan.

Do you know what 'Red Lining' is? Or isn't that in your liberal script?

 

[itschris]

I read enough to know it's another lame attempt to blame blacks, the poor, other minorities and big bad regulation, when in fact the problems were created by republican deregulation.

btw, someone's so-called "credentials" have nothing to do with the validity of their argument or claims. I really don't care how many PhD's someone has if they're wrong.

Interesting. So what exactly are your "credentials" that embody you with such confidence to state that regardless of those with higher education and tested experience in the actual industry in question, are wrong if they differ in opinion with you.

I mean no disrespect, but I'm always quite amused when I hear people matter of factly state, "I don't care what you say... you're wrong." That attitude just puzzles me, yet it's very typical. In light of overwhelming factual evidence, most people will still ignore the clear and obvious to suit the personal opinons, wishes, and hopes they feel they so brilliantly conceived on their own. Odd.... I tell my people that if you're not wrong at least 10 times a day about really big things, you're the one who's mind is closed.

I'm a Sr. Analyst of Executive Finance and Economics in the Finance Industry. The issues, the causes, and the liabilities of our current state are all quite certain to those who are involved and understand and are not persuaded by partisan politics.

 

[Tomorrow]

\What's going to happen is that we're going to get screwed, and then the corporations are going to use their propaganda mouthpieces like rush limbaugh and fox news to convince uneducated voters that it's the fault of someone else (e.g., democrats, "liberals," poor people, blacks, minorities, environmentalists, ACORN, etc.), just like rush limbaugh this week is now trying to blame our economic woes on Obama! \
\

I guess you didn't read , or couldn't comprehend what I posted...or just chose to ignore the truth of it. This is how BOTH partisan sides work. Power politics isn't about service to the people. It's about interest group self-service.

It seems to be one of the sad indices of the current political status of the U.S....divisiveness and blame coming from both main political camps. And they have you playing right along with them.

Please read Annunaki's post(s) again.

 

[soundhound]

I mean no disrespect, but I'm always quite amused when I hear people matter of factly state, "I don't care what you say... you're wrong." That attitude just puzzles me, yet it's very typical. In light of overwhelming factual evidence, most people will still ignore the clear and obvious to suit the personal opinons, wishes, and hopes they feel they so brilliantly conceived on their own.

What is your "overwhelming factual evidence?" All we basically have is propaganda from the right denying any part in it. I haven't "brilliantly conceived anything on my own." It's simply a fact that republican ideology has been the driving force behind the deregulation we have seen that has caused so much of the financial problems we are facing today. E.g.:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9246.html

So from the perspective of reality, it appears you are the one ignoring the overwhelming factual evidence. It's always easy to spot when people side with the ones who are harming them, in this case the banking and mortgage corporations which lobbied through people like Phil Gramm to deregulate the industry. And once they deregulated, it came crashing down on all of us.

But rather than point the finger of blame where it clearly belongs, you talk about some alleged "attitude" I have of ignoring the facts. Well, phil gramm's legislation deregulated Glass Steagall. That's just a fact. Sorry if you don't want to deal with it, but blaming it on poor people isn't going to solve anything.

I'm the one who's actually always quite amused when I see people who don't even understand the concepts of oppression and how power is being used to oppress through ideology in the interest of profiting a particular class (which is very infrequently the middle class and almost never the working or underclass). You can "feel" it even in the hatred of the poor and searching for scapegoats we always see from these kinds of posts blaming "government," blaming progressives, blaming any and everyone but the people who are actually causing the problem: the right winger "feed the rich" crew who want to deregulate everything in sight so their corporate masters can go on raping and looting the country blind. Voters saw through that this past election, I don't think it's going to work anymore. Nice try, though.

 

[soundhound]

Did you even read, and/or understand my last post?

How, and why, did the Democratic controlled Congress allow all this to happen?
It was Quid pro quo, for allowing 'Red lining' of mortgages, to people that could not afford any type of loan.

Do you know what 'Red Lining' is? Or isn't that in your liberal script?

Democratic controlled congress? You have your history a little mixed up. The republicans are the ones who have been in control of congress and championing all this deregulation for the past ~15 years, not the democrats. The last 2 years of narrow democratic majority have not included veto-proof margins. It's kind of silly to blame democrats when it's been republicans who have been in charge for most of the past decade and a half, with almost half that time having a republican president.

Talk about ignoring reality, lol. What do you think the republican congress has been doing for 6 out of the past 8 years? Rubber stamping any and all of bush's pro-corporate, deregulatory and neocon legislation, that's what. Lol, yeah, it's the dems' fault. Good one.