Looking for a new subwoofer, but having a hard time finding one that I like.

[guitarplyrstevo]

I currently have two polk rti12 towers with an onkyo 805 receiver. The sub I am using right now is a Klipsch Sub-10 which is an alright but it just doesn't have enough depth to it. At my job we have Polk PSW1000 subwoofers brand new in a box going for $400 but that also doesnt have enough depth. So when I tried out our velodyne dls-5000, and I was impressed with the sound. It sustained long deep sounding bass lines and just sounded huge.

I am a musician so i have a very critical ear, and the 12" and 10" dls velodyne subwoofers just didnt do it for me. It sounded so small, and it lacked the depth that I wanted.

Well anyways, I would get the velodyne dls-5000 for around $500 after my employee discount and after tax. My question to you guys is, would I get any other subwoofer that would give me the depth, tightness, and overall huge sound for around the same money?

I walked into an audio store one day and listened to some Rel subwoofers, and one think I really liked about that woofer is it was extremely tight sounding and the reason for this is because it was a completely sealed woofer. Is it possible for a ported woofer to still retain that tightness?

 

[jamie2112]

I rule of thumb. Sealed subs are better for music and ported are better for HT use. That being said, I like sealed subs for everything myself.They only way to get a powerful sub for less than 500 is to DIY. There are plenty of great subs out there but not for 500. HSU and SVS both have open box deals and specials all the time you just have to look every day. Best of luck to you and hope this helps a little bit......

 

[jostenmeat]

I walked into an audio store one day and listened to some Rel subwoofers, and one think I really liked about that woofer is it was extremely tight sounding and the reason for this is because it was a completely sealed woofer. Is it possible for a ported woofer to still retain that tightness?

I've had very similar experiences with you. I also own a sealed sub. I've also been duly impressed by REL for music.

However, people have repeatedly stated there should be no SQ pro/con between a well designed ported or sealed sub. That in fact some ported subs are designed to have response actually look like that of a sealed sub's as well.

People also believe that REL suffers in distortion, and is overpriced. However, Im not sure if the distortion readings are coming with higher SPL. Sometimes it is annoying when sub-heads ONLY care about pure SPL and extension. In any case, I would agree that REL simply does not cut it for HT in either output or extension . . .at least anything up to their mid-lines.

I've also always wondered just how much the neutrik speakon connections actually do for the purpose of phase coherency.

Check out Warpdrv's thread in the DIY section. If you're up to the task, $600 or so got him something that is comparable, actually better(?), than his JL F112. Which is insane.

 

[Gimpy Ric]

Hsu Research makes very musical subs although they are ported. I owned a VTF-3 HO Turbo (discontinued) and it was ported, but very musical, even more so that my current SVS PB13-Ultra. Although if I had an Veledyne SMS-1 or better yet a Behringer 2496 I could make that Ultra sound any way I wanted.

Hsu Research VTF-2 MK 3 Subwoofer $549.00

Suggested Reading: Myths about subwoofers

 

[Chopin_Guy]

Guitar,

What info you have gotten thus far is dead on...$500 is right on the cusp of starting to get into subs that can really perform well....with the best option probably a DIY unit. But if you are still looking the way of purchasing a unit I would look at the SVS b-stock page, as right now they have two units you should check out. They have 2, PB12-NSD units at $549 each and they also have one of the old PB12-Plus subs (not the new one you see on the site) for $749...

Both of these would offer you ALOT of performance and the price on the PB12-Plus is a really good steal as they sold for $1000...and their b-stock items come AS NEW...as I have bought b-stock from them twice and the units in many cases might have been opened and returned and never turned on (the case of the PB13-ultra that I got for $1399). But in the $500 price range, I feel the PB12-NSD for $549 will deifnitely please your bass needs (and I have a critical ear too -- PHD student in piano performance here)...

Good luck and let us know if we you have any more questions??

Edit: Here is the link for the SVS B-stock page:

https://svsound.com/store/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=12

 

[FirstReflection]

No one's mentioned it yet, but a GREAT deal of the extension and deep bass impact that you hear and feel is determined by room interaction - in other words, placement of the subwoofer and your seat. If you happen to have the subwoofer placed so that your seat winds up in a null, no amount of power or output is going to change what you hear!

For certain, you want to know that your subwoofer is capable of flat frequency response right down to 20Hz. But once your subwoofer is capable of that, it's all up to the room and where you place your seat in relation to the subwoofer that determines what you hear!

 

[Sheep]

I rule of thumb. Sealed subs are better for music and ported are better for HT use. That being said, I like sealed subs for everything myself.They only way to get a powerful sub for less than 500 is to DIY. There are plenty of great subs out there but not for 500. HSU and SVS both have open box deals and specials all the time you just have to look every day. Best of luck to you and hope this helps a little bit......

There is a few things in this post that need clarification.

1.) You do not rule thumb.

2.) Sealed subs are perceived to be more musical. This is generally due to a higher, but shallower roll off. This can be simulated on a ported subwoofer, making use of it greater efficiency, output, and depth.

3.) Musical is a perspective. We all have an opinion of musical, and what sounds good. However, so far not many people actually know what that opinion translates into when asked to quantify it. I'm sure if you were in a blind test and listened to a proper ported subwoofer, you would think it's musical.

To the OP,

Never assume you have a critical ear. You will start to color your own opinion with that kind of mindset. Lets assume you meant you know what you want. The DSLR5000 isn't that stellar of a performer. It's an okay deal at 500 but I'd rather have the PB-10NSD.

SheepStar

 

[Exit]

Pb10-nsd

Here is a sub under $500 that has gotten a lot of praise, has published reviews and is recommended by a lot of people on this site.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

 

[WmAx]

Original poster: For a little bit more, you can create a DIY version of the Fathom F112 JL Audio subwoofer. You can do it with pre-finished blank cabinets. You just cut a hole and install the woofer. Hook up to amp and a DCX2496 processor(for FR compensation in small sealed box and to correct room modes). No retail sub is going to come close, not even remotely close to the performance for the dollars spent.

Or you can go retail and get far less performance/quality for the money.

I'll help you pick out every part you need and even tell you what setting to input on the DCX controller to get the desired response.

-Chris

 

[jnmfox]

Original poster: For a little bit more, you can create a DIY version of the Fathom F112 JL Audio subwoofer. You can do it with pre-finished blank cabinets. You just cut a hole and install the woofer. Hook up to amp and a DCX2496 processor(for FR compensation in small sealed box and to correct room modes). No retail sub is going to come close, not even remotely close to the performance for the dollars spent.

Or you can go retail and get far less performance/quality for the money.

I'll help you pick out every part you need and even tell you what setting to input on the DCX controller to get the desired response.

-Chris

I'm assuming that you are referring your DIY build. Could you give us more details on what specific parts; box, amp, woofer, and where you recommend getting them?

Thanks

 

[WmAx]

I'm assuming that you are referring your DIY build. Could you give us more details on what specific parts; box, amp, woofer, and where you recommend getting them?

Thanks

No, I was going to use JL Audio W7 12" woofers in a pair for my main speakers' bass modules. But I came across that great 1/2 price sale last week for those 15" Audiopulse AXIS(TC Sounds TC-3000) subs and will be using them, since they will even be superior by a large margin to the 12" W7s(they have comparable motors which is very rare in itself - both being outstanding/superb in this regard - but the large added cone area on the 15" AXIS was the tie breaker since I intend to go sealed to save space and I should get 2x the output, give or take a db, with this added cone area).

For the JL W7 12"(and I am ONLY recommending the W7 from JL for this sealed application so that an unusually superb result can be obtained), I recommend using the parts express dayton pre-finished subwoofer cabinets. The sealed ones. They are pre-finished, you just cut a hole for the woofer and for the terminal plate and hook up the wires inside. Connect the boxes to an EP2500 Behringer amplifier. Connect the EP2500 to a DCX2496 Behringer controller. The controller is critical, as with all of these small sized super woofers like the Fathom F112 for example, a processor is needed to manipulate the response flat to 20Hz and to correct for room modes and to provide crossover functions. The total cost should be a touch over $1000, compared to several times that for the retail version of this product. IN addition, the DIY version here will be superior to the retail version; you will have a more capable amplifier likely, and you will have far more DSP control using the DCX processor as compared to the built in processing on the factory product. Superior product for far less money. You will not get any overall comparable retail product to this, for even 2x the amount. You do need to use one EP2500 per JL W7 12" though. It requires massive power to get the desired performance in a sealed enclosure, if you want flat high output to 20 Hz and slightly under. If you are serious and want specific product numbers and links, I will provide them. BTW, the 12" JL W7 drivers must be purchased from heavy discount un-authorized resellers. The 'authorized' resellers charge nearly 2x the amount for these drivers, making the DIY project much less appealing because the driver is the most expensive part. You probably wonder why I recommend such a costly driver. This is because few drivers actually have very low distortion at very high excursion and power input levels to work superbly in sealed enclosures. As such, I can only recommend a handful of drivers that have been verified by 3rd parties in thorough analysis. I can not recommend drivers simply because they are 'popular', nor because they are simply claimed to be something based on manufacturer provided data. The JLW7 motors have been proven to be outstanding - simply superior to most anything else in the world. The only other verified motors of equal extreme excursion while maintaining linearity are TC Sounds(a.k.a. Audiopulse) higher end motors and another couple of extreme high priced makes/models that I can't remember right off the top of my head. In all, when you by the W7s from heavy discount sellers, they price is actually very good for what you are getting. It's only when buying from 'authorized dealers' that the price is what I consider poor.

-Chris

 

[annunaki]

I would be curious to see how long the parts express sealed enclosures hold up to the amount of force that would be applied with a 12W7 sealed, the DCX 2496, and 2K watts of power on tap.

Having had a lot of experience with the W7 drivers, I can tell you that a poorly constructed enclosure does not last long with them. (Not saying that the PE enclosures are of poor construction though. They are pretty well done for a pre-fab enclosure, but a bit expensive.)

 

[Warpdrv]

I would be curious to see how long the parts express sealed enclosures hold up to the amount of force that would be applied with a 12W7 sealed, the DCX 2496, and 2K watts of power on tap.

Having had a lot of experience with the W7 drivers, I can tell you that a poorly constructed enclosure does not last long with them. (Not saying that the PE enclosures are of poor construction though. They are pretty well done for a pre-fab enclosure, but a bit expensive.)

I just sent my first DIY out the door to a very happy customer, with a TC-2000, and let me tell you, it is a monster comparing side by side with a JL Audio F112 which has a bit denser cabinet, and my sub with proper bracing went toe to toe in ever aspect.... the only thing lacking with the 15" TC driver compared to the F112 was the upper bass handling. the F112 was just better in that dept, but with proper EQ will match it with no problems in that aspect.

I was truly blown away with the performance of the TC-2000. The only difference with that and the TC-3000 would be the 3000 would have the ability to work just as well if not better in a smaller box, even though the 2000 performs amazing in a 3-3.5 cu ft box... powered by a EP2500, will absolutely pound...

Using 3/4" Baltic Birch 13 PLY with enough bracing will provide you with the most incredible tight and accurate bass.... I might just have to get a JLw7 to try it out in my own enclosure sometime and put it up against the TC drivers.

I agree 100% with annunaki....
I don't think I would trust the JL drivers in a prefab enclosure, the power of that driver will likely cause havoc with an under built enclosure, unless its under powered.

 

[WmAx]

There is no problem with the PE enclosures. They are made very well. They are not built like a cheap Polk sub cabinet sub or something. The W7 is not going to hurt them. But if one is so worried/paranoid, it is trivial to take some polyurethane construction adhesive and add in some oak bracing points and corner re-enforcements.

As for trying a JL driver; you already have one in your F112. LOL. Just remove it and put it in a custom cabinet for experimentation.

The TC-3000 will have greater linear excursion and higher power handling when compared to the TC-2000. That was the specific intent of the line(to provide a middle step on all aspects between TC-2000 and Ultra LMS). Based on tests of the JL 13" W7 and TC2000 15", both in sealed cabinets, on hometheatershack, it is apparent that the JL has a slightly superior motor, as the TC2000 would have had a larger gap in performance if they had identical quality motors. I expect the TC3000 is probably equal to W7. But even being a little inferior to the W7, the TC2000 is still ridiculously good. Few woofers in existence are performing up to these levels of fidelity at these extreme SPL/power input.

-Chris

 

[Cpt.America]

They only way to get a powerful sub for less than 500 is to DIY. ....

Not true. I just got the A3-300 from elemental designs, with the upgraded driver, free shipping for $500 exactly, door to door. Paired up with my polk Rti-10s, it sounds amazing. Very powerfull, plays VERY low, very clear and very accurate. Literally shakes my entire house.

Can't go wrong if you are a little more constrained by budget like i was.

Make sure you get the upgraded driver for only $25 more bucks...
http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=102

 

[Warpdrv]

There is no problem with the PE enclosures. They are made very well. They are not built like a cheap Polk sub cabinet sub or something. The W7 is not going to hurt them. But if one is so worried/paranoid, it is trivial to take some polyurethane construction adhesive and add in some oak bracing points and corner re-enforcements.

As for trying a JL driver; you already have one in your F112. LOL. Just remove it and put it in a custom cabinet for experimentation.

The TC-3000 will have greater linear excursion and higher power handling when compared to the TC-2000. That was the specific intent of the line(to provide a middle step on all aspects between TC-2000 and Ultra LMS). Based on tests of the JL 13" W7 and TC2000 15", both in sealed cabinets, on hometheatershack, it is apparent that the JL has a slightly superior motor, as the TC2000 would have had a larger gap in performance if they had identical quality motors. I expect the TC3000 is probably equal to W7. But even being a little inferior to the W7, the TC2000 is still ridiculously good. Few woofers in existence are performing up to these levels of fidelity at these extreme SPL/power input.

-Chris

I agree with you 100% Chris.... The 2000's are just an incredible driver in their own right... All the 2000's I have were made with the tall surround the same as the 3000 Right now I am pairing the F112 to the 2000, which gives me the combination of the better upper bass handling of the F112, with the low reaching ability of the 2000 together... Honestly it is just plain Sickening, clean tight, and overwhelmingly impactful in a 1700^3 room. I got my own little Gotham here, maybe even a little better.... Even dialed back, Im still hitting 120-125 db and clean as a whistle... Just for testing purposes of coarse...

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/speakers/IMG_2383.jpg

 

[denonandkef]

Well anyways, I would get the velodyne dls-5000 for around $500 after my employee discount and after tax. My question to you guys is, would I get any other subwoofer that would give me the depth, tightness, and overall huge sound for around the same money?

Onecall got the Velodyne Impact mini for $400 free shipping. If you need 12" you can get the Impact 12 on ebay for around $350. the impact series have good tight bass similar to the SPL series. And if that's too much $$$ then you can the DPS-10 for under $300 ebay. And according to curt over at velodyne, he told me that the DPS is better than Impact and DLS.