is Runco worth it?

[rich7377]

I have been steared by my favorite A/V specialists to upgrade to the Runco RS 900. if it is the best I will pay the money, but is $9k worth it or are there other projectors that match the quality and picture?

 

[TLS Guy]

I have been steared by my favorite A/V specialists to upgrade to the Runco RS 900. if it is the best I will pay the money, but is $9k worth it or are there other projectors that match the quality and picture?

Can you afford the Rolls or not?

 

[rich7377]

I can afford to go there, but I don't want to make that investment if there is something simular for a couple k less. So I guess my question is this....is Runco that good. My friend bought a 3 chip Runco for 25k. Not sure I see a movie any better. I have been reading a lot of posts and not many talks about Runco. A lot of the internet sites speaks of the '07 new line up, but again they don't compare Runco with anyone else. People on this site seem to know a LOT about A/V. Just want to get some type of consensus.

 

[rich7377]

Maybe a little more background is necessary. I have a dedicated sound proof room that seats eight. I built it 6-7 years ago. This was before hmdi was standard on the back of stereo/tv units. To get the best quality picture I need to upgrade my receiver, run new wires (original ones were not hdmi) and purchase a new projector. I have a Runco now which I paid 6k for. Again I don't mind the cost, I just want to get what I pay for and not over pay if ther is something simular for less.

 

[jostenmeat]

JVC RS-20 if native contrast is your bag, under $10k.

However, to be sure, you can wait for user reports to roll in later on, and experienced folks will be able to say something in comparison to Runco's and the like.

Then again, some people say the JVC is already better.

Its kind of hard to just throw out the "best". I think there's a lot to it. Amount of light control, size of screen, type of screen, throw/placement, etc.

Regarding the above, someone recently said, "Options for achieving proper screen illumination might include: spending more on the projector to get a 3-chip DLP, using a smaller screen, closing off the back of the room and having dark room surfaces (especially a black ceiling), using a non-perfed screen with a higher gain, sacrificing accurate colorimetry for a brighter image, or a combination of these elements." . . .

Not to mention personal preferences as far as blacks vs brightness vs contrast vs grain vs color accuracy vs calibration-flexibility, etc.

Not that I know anything about this stuff.

 

[walter duque]

I have been steared by my favorite A/V specialists to upgrade to the Runco RS 900. if it is the best I will pay the money, but is $9k worth it or are there other projectors that match the quality and picture?

I would find out who the OEM is for Ronco Projectors, all I know is that NEC makes their Plamas. Then go with the OEM model for half the price. They are best, so they say.

http://www.highendzone.com/
If you realy want a Ronco check out this link, they are well below retail. Also check out the Amps, the Studio6 is awesome for the money.

 

[Midcow2]

Sounds like you have a very,very nice system

Maybe a little more background is necessary. I have a dedicated sound proof room that seats eight. I built it 6-7 years ago. This was before hmdi was standard on the back of stereo/tv units. To get the best quality picture I need to upgrade my receiver, run new wires (original ones were not hdmi) and purchase a new projector. I have a Runco now which I paid 6k for. Again I don't mind the cost, I just want to get what I pay for and not over pay if ther is something simular for less.

Rich7377,

It sounds like you have a very,very nice HT system. Would you care to share the specifics with the Audioholic forum members?

Good Luck on getting an upgrade that meets your needs.

MidCow2

 

[BMXTRIX]

I have been steared by my favorite A/V specialists to upgrade to the Runco RS 900. if it is the best I will pay the money, but is $9k worth it or are there other projectors that match the quality and picture?

Runco is not ever worth the money.

Their engineering is incredibly subpar and they rarely make their own product, but choose to OEM from other manufacturers, then try to tweak a full engineered product to be a bit better, often with limited success, but always with a huge markup.

Some of the best projectors on the market are only marginally better than what you would get for under $3,000 with the Epson 1080UB. Some are worse.

Runco's biggest issue is that because they don't have a solid engineering core, and their products are rarely their own, you run into far more issues with reliability than other manufactures, and often don't have a fully engineered product from the ground up.

Sim2 would be an excellent product at around that price range, though arguably there are far better deals to be had.

JVC has spent the last few years putting out some of the absolute best projectors on the market and have had prices which easily blow away the Runcos and Sim2s out there. Likewise, their projectors really do seem to match or best what Runco delivers.

If you have any questions, why not read all the reviews in HT magazines and online for Runco products.

The reason you can't find almost ANY reputable site with a Runco review is that the projectors simply have zero ability to stand up to the competition in real world testing.

How bad? On the main webpage for Runco they link to a 'review' (press release?) by Fortune Magazine (not exactly AV), and even Fortune is stuck saying...

"Now, like any Ferrari, this lux item has a few issues. All this fab processing tends to slow things down: Changing channels and inputs was a struggle. Channel surfing was all but impossible with the HDTV feed from Cablevision. ESPN, in particular, was very difficult to render cleanly.

Plus, all the flexibility can be flat-out confusing; one changes aspect ratios and inputs using the same button on the remote, which is very tough to master. After about my 50th experience of squishing the picture when I meant to change over to the Blu-ray player, I sort of wondered why I would spend $9,000 for the honor."

Runco, after years of digital displays, can't match at the most basic level what Sanyo does in a $1,500 projector.... Provide a stable image.

While working high end residential I worked to get Runco removed from all installations in favor of other products which would actually make and keep homeowners happy. We saw over a 50% failure rate of their product compiled on top of complaints of poor image quality over and over again.

You can only make so many excuses, but at that price, it is by far better to simply not have to make them.

Go elsewhere, there are FAR better choices on the market.

 

[majorloser]

Personally, I'd go look for an Epson's 7500UB. It's their new flagship projector. It is an installer upgrade over the 6500UB projector. One of the nicest features is full ISF calibration. Just like the Runco.

They had this projector last month at the Audioholics SOTU show in Orlando. It was in the Emotiva room. One of the nicest pictures I've seen in a long time.

 

[rich7377]

BMXTRIX, don't like Runco much? just kiddin' What would be some of your recomendations?

I appreciate all of your feedback and it makes a great amount of sense, but I am still without suggestions of what to upgrade with.

 

[ivseenbetter]

Look into the Epson models mentioned in this thread already. The 1080UB or the installer versions listed by majorloser.

I'm still happy with my cheap 720p solution but if I were going to get a new projector I would lean toward the new Panasonic...put I am partial to their softer picture. It seems the vast majority are more happy with the Epson models.

 

[majorloser]

To be honest, I'm not a freak on Runco either. I don't think you get what you're paying for.

You could probably get two of the Epson 7500UB's installed for the same $9K you're talking about.

 

[BMXTRIX]

BMXTRIX, don't like Runco much?

I actually had the VP of Runco at where I used to work and I pointed out the flaws of their product to them at the end of them making a sales presentation. His response: "Well, when you get the best, that's something that happens." - My response was: "The competition gives reliability for 1/4 the price, so it seems foolish to consider yourself anywhere near the best when you can't even do the basics." He was really pissed off, but I am not speaking from inexperience. Runco makes a lousy product and continues to not put their product out to ANY reputable journalists for serious review.

I appreciate all of your feedback and it makes a great amount of sense, but I am still without suggestions of what to upgrade with.

Upgrade from what? What is your realistic budget? What features are you interested in?

The JVC models are absolutely some of the best out there. If you can afford a fair bit more, then 3 chip DLP can be phenomenal, but costly. LCD has come a long way over the years, and hits a great budget point for 1080p - especially in the new Panasonic AE3000.

Under $10K, I would likely look towards JVC.

 

[jostenmeat]

JVC RS-20 if native contrast is your bag, under $10k.

Under $10K, I would likely look towards JVC.

Nice thing about very expensive DLP models are greater lumens. Otherwise, JVC contrast will be hard to beat, like I said, Rich.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Nice thing about very expensive DLP models are greater lumens. Otherwise, JVC contrast will be hard to beat, like I said, Rich.

Yep - you look at the digital cinemas and it is a very strong lean towards DLP, especially with companies like Digital Projection out there which produce some top shelf product for videophiles with significant budgets.

Yet, Sim2 seems to be a solid company with some good quality, stylish products. Not sure they are worth the cash either. At least they are a better alternative for the money than Runco.

Yet, when we are talking value for the money and overall quality, a quick trip to Projector Reviews shows us a direct head to head of several 1080p models right now...
http://www.projectorreviews.com/panasonic/pt-ae3000u/image.php

You can see head to head shots of the AE3000 (Panasonic), the JVC RS1 and RS2, as well as an Optoma DLP (more expensive), and the Epson 1080UB.

The JVC and Epson do a fair job better than the Panny for black levels, which is the most important factor for video. Color accuracy is important as well, but often can be corrected.

I think you can pretty easily feel safe with JVC, and if you save a bit of cash and plan to use the room frequently, then an extended warranty and LAMP warranty (3 years) can be an excellent decision for projectors.

 

[Hi Ho]

I'll chime in and basically mirror BMXs comments regarding Runco. I have never been impressed with them either. The company I work for installs them almost exclusively. The only motivation for that I can think of is the ridiculous markup that they get.

For the price at which they sell they certainly don't have the picture quality to match and they certainly don't have the reliability gods on their side. As I'm typing this, there are three Runco projectors in for repair, each with different issues.

I would put the picture quality (and reliability) of my Mitsubishi HD1000 ($800) up against a Runco CL-420 ($5,000) any day. I have done that, in fact. I had one at my house and set them up for a little comparison. I could not tweak the Runco to look as nice as the Mits no matter what I did using a DVE calibration disc. The Mits beat the Runco in virtually every respect. It had better blacks, better color, better image processing, and a more intuitive and stable interface. That's not to mention the image stability issues that so many Runco units suffer from. The Runco lamp is only rated for 2000 hours while the Mits is rated for 3000 and the Runco lamp costs almost twice as much. The only thing the Runco had over the Mits was lens shift. Oh yeah, the Runco has a two year warranty... but so does the Mits (the website says 1 year but mine came with a 2 year warranty card in the box and Mits said they would honor it).

 

[BMXTRIX]

I think it's important to understand that I don't own a Runco so I've never been personally burned. I've worked for a Runco dealer, and my experience with them is entirely drawn on high end installations with their product...

With probably upwards of 100 good HT installations that I've worked on, at least 50% of the Runco installs had serious issues taking the display out of commission within 3 months of purchase. In comparison, I'm not aware of a single additional display that was working out of the box that developed an issue. In the last couple of years with my own company, I've installed perhaps a half dozen more projectors from various manufacturers - mostly Sanyo and Panasonic - and not one of them has had a single issue.

It sounds like Runco is fun to bash on, but they have earned this and they continue to deserve it. I would compare them to Bose, but at least Bose products, as bad as they are, don't typically break after a few months of use... as much as you may wish they would.

With so many good options available to you, it really is hard to specify what you should go with, but it's easy to at least recommend what you should avoid.

 

[jostenmeat]

I think you can pretty easily feel safe with JVC, and if you save a bit of cash and plan to use the room frequently, then an extended warranty and LAMP warranty (3 years) can be an excellent decision for projectors.

I got myself a Mack powerbuy warranty. 6 yrs PJ, 5 yrs bulb (two replacements) for the grand total of $265 I believe.

I'll have to buy the bulb, then jump thru some hoops to get reimbursed. I was given these instructions by Rob Tomlin at AVS:

It was a bit slow to have them respond at first, and I had to fax my documents to them THREE times before they acknowledged receipt.

As a heads up, the documents they require are: 1) sales receipt for the projector 2) sales receipt for the Mack warranty 3) the Mack warranty card itself 4) The Mack service request form (from their website).

After they receive the above, they will give you a control number.

Once I have purchased the new bulb, I send them the paid receipt along with the control number and defective bulb. They will then send reimbursement for the amount paid.

They make it clear that they will not pay for expedited shipping charges. It's not clear whether they would pay for "normal" shipping charges.

I will keep the thread updated regarding my dealings with Mack.

What I've been fretting over is if I should buy a new one anyways for backup. I suppose if I was willing to go without a bulb for several days while waiting for the new arrival, I could save myself a few/several hundred. I think that's what I'll do. But, it would be REALLY nice to have a backup...

 

[walter duque]

I have been steared by my favorite A/V specialists to upgrade to the Runco RS 900. if it is the best I will pay the money, but is $9k worth it or are there other projectors that match the quality and picture?

Years ago I just had to have a Camelot Round Table DVD Player at a cost of $4000.--. To make a long story short I special ordered it since they did not stock it. Pluged it in and the screen said Panasonic, so I went back to the dealer and said what is this. He told me it's build from a Panasonic Platform and they made some modifications on it. I could have bought the Panasonic DVD Player for $350.00, and to be honest with you I had nothing but problems with the Round Table. That thing never did work right. Plus I could not return it since it was a special order. So I paid $4000.00 for a $350.00 player, looks like I've been had. That extra money for a little tweak here and there and a nice looking faceplate. I know this has nothing to do with Ronco, but they basicly do the same thing.

 

[majorloser]

I don't think I've ever heard an installer with nice things to say about Runco in candid. The only nice thing they can say about Runco is if they are selling one of their projectors, they've usually got a pretty expensive custom install planned with a good profit margin worked out.