The Bill of NON-rights

[Davemcc]

Religiously marry...I agree. I think the issue is legal marriage, which entails certain legal rights/benefits that are sponsored by the government.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Government involvement implies adherence to certain basic principles, equality among them. If churches were to retain the concept of marriage as a private religious institution with no legally conferred status, this would be a non-issue. But the government has conferred legal status and privileges upon married couples. To uphold the principle of equality, benefits available to one must be available to all, regardless of any perceived moral or social differences.

 

[Adam]

Ah. Gotcha.

 

[unreal.freak]

I guess the point is also the the gov't should not be able to dictate when, where, how, who you can love...or marry.

Adam pretty much summed up what i was gonna say. Ill just say this, The Gov represents the People. It was put to a vote and the people voted against it.

 

[pzaur]

Either way im glad that the Gov cant dictate when, where, how, who, i can worship.

Thanks for your responses

Peace,
Tommy

This is exactly what the Founding Fathers had in mind. No state sponsored or run religious institutions. To expand a little further, a government free from religious interference or dictatorship.

The biggest issue today is that too many people are trying to change laws to include their religious belief and force it upon others. No matter how many of the scientific community show that homosexuality is not always a choice, there are those who will continue to believe that it is always a choice because someone has told them that God said gays are not normal/natural/sane somewhere in the Bible.

Religion is an interesting animal that can have so much good come from it and it is too often used in the name of violence, persecution, and wrongness. There are simply too many people who preach from the Bible by taking quotes out of context and twisting them to suit what an individual believes. Not necessarily what the Bible is saying. They also twist Biblical quotes to convince themselves that what they are doing is "OK in God's mind" when it truly isn't.

This is an interesting read about gays and the Bible. I have not taken it any further than the site at this time.

-pat

 

[pzaur]

No matter who tries to deny it, this country was founded by religious Men.

Very much so. It's also very clear that they understood the corruption that can occur when religion is allowed to hold governmental powers since this is the very reason many people fled European countries. Not always for wealth and adventure. But, for freedom to practice their religion of believing in God(s) or not believing in a God.

Thats what Christianity is about...Love.

Peace,
Tommy

Too many people lose sight of this and become over zealous in their pursuit to "save souls".

-pat

 

[Davemcc]

Adam pretty much summed up what i was gonna say. Ill just say this, The Gov represents the People. It was put to a vote and the people voted against it.

This is exactly why upholding principles matters, even if we don't like the application. Majorities can very often bring tyranny to a minority if left unchecked and unprincipled. A vote today that denies one person's equality could very well turn out tomorrow to be a vote that denies some other right to another. Like freedom itself, principle must be defended vigorously for without principle, we descend into mob rule. Mob rule is contrary to the vision of the founders and contrary to the history and culture of the USA.

Like the person who says "I disagree with what you are saying but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it", I am not gay and I don't really have any gay friends these days. But I will vigorously defend gay persons' rights to equality under the law and equal treatment by government and it's agents. Religion and any arbitrary customs or moral beliefs derived therefrom are simply an irrelevant sideshow when it comes to governing a society freely and equally under the law.

 

[jinjuku]

I don't know how it is where you went to school, but here the people who didnt want to participate in the school pledge and prayer, were excused to the library before hand. Mostly Jehovah's witness children. None of them seemed to feel singled out or prejusticed against.

Thanks for your response



Peace,
Tommy

If having to get up and parade yourself out the door to the library in front of your peers based what you have been taught isn't being singled out and subsequently prejudiced I don't know what is.

It is very alarming that you seem to miss the forest for the trees .

 

[jinjuku]

Thats what Christianity is about...Love.

Peace,
Tommy

Yep, that's what all your posts have been espousing as of late: Love

I think it's sad that you seem to have a need to enforce your moral will on other peoples that would rather have nothing to do with you or your god. You know the simply may not believe. With all the crap that is happening on this earth in the name of 'god' I can't blame them.

They simply would like to get on with their life. The would like to love the one they got, kick around with the friends they have, enjoy the life they built and simply be left alone by the likes of you. I know you don't believe it of your self, but you come across as very spiteful and bigoted in your posts (IMO of course).

 

[jinjuku]

Religiously marry...I agree. I think the issue is legal marriage, which entails certain legal rights/benefits that are sponsored by the government.

Why would a same sex marriage want the blessing of a so called religion of 'Love' that a religious ceremony entails.

Again: Marriage is a contract of state, not church. There is no one here in the U.S. that was marriage in any sort of religious institution that didn't first visit the court house for a certificate to be filled out by the clergy.

 

[Alex2507]

ARTICLE X: This is an English speaking country. We don't care where you are from, English is our language. Learn it or go back to wherever you came from!

I find this part super offensive.

I know it's an English speaking country. I freakin' live here and don't need to be told that. You don't care where I'm from? Good because I don't care that you don't care. Now that we're on the topic of not caring, the people in this country who make the rules don't care what you think. Your opinion on the matter has been deemed worthless. Go back to where I came from? I'm no more a product of a country than I am a product of a government. I am from the Earth and have enjoyed the pleasure of walking it in liberty regardless of the language I chose to speak. Please note that it has been my pleasure.

To me language is a function of communication. To communicate effectively with a person, I will continue to use the language that works best regardless of what country I am in.
Most of the time English works best.

I'll tell you for free that that sentiment is usually used against Spanish speaking people. I see the 'Speak English Or Get The F Out' stickers on hard hat's all the time. They aren't referring to Scandinavians. If it wasn't their language that was being picked on it would be something else like height, color or diet. Why don't we make it simple and just say it's okay to kick a ----?

Trying to help somebody speak English to make their lives easier is noble. Why offend them? Personally I think people should learn to use punctuation or turn their computers off. (Except for mike_c. )

 

[10010011]

While this Bill of NON-rights sounds good on the surface it is filled with hate and divisiveness.

Two things things country was NOT founded on.

 

[markw]

I think you'r reading more into this than it deserves.

ARTICLE X: This is an English speaking country. We don't care where you are from, English is our language. Learn it or go back to wherever you came from!

I find this part super offensive.

I know it's an English speaking country. I freakin' live here and don't need to be told that. You don't care where I'm from? Good because I don't care that you don't care. Now that we're on the topic of not caring, the people in this country who make the rules don't care what you think. Your opinion on the matter has been deemed worthless. Go back to where I came from? I'm no more a product of a country than I am a product of a government. I am from the Earth and have enjoyed the pleasure of walking it in liberty regardless of the language I chose to speak. Please note that it has been my pleasure.

To me language is a function of communication. To communicate effectively with a person, I will continue to use the language that works best regardless of what country I am in.
Most of the time English works best.

I'll tell you for free that that sentiment is usually used against Spanish speaking people. I see the 'Speak English Or Get The F Out' stickers on hard hat's all the time. They aren't referring to Scandinavians. If it wasn't their language that was being picked on it would be something else like height, color or diet. Why don't we make it simple and just say it's okay to kick a ----?

Trying to help somebody speak English to make their lives easier is noble. Why offend them? Personally I think people should learn to use punctuation or turn their computers off. (Except for mike_c. )

I don't see where anything was said against Latinos, unless with your post you're admitting that they seem to be the only ones who steadfastly refuse to learn English and expect us to bend to their inability to learn or refusal to speak english.

Actually, nobody has a problem lending a helping hand, but there has to be some willngness and effort made on the other side to try to "blend in" linguistically if "visitors" want to avoid and/or overcome negative stereotypes.

But, I will admit that I do see visitors from Africa, Asia, various Europeans, and virtually every other country conversing in English without griping. Who helped them?

So, tell me, why do you see Latinos singled out in this post?

P.S. Before anyone gets all huffy, know up front that my wife and her family are from a Latin country and English was NOT their native language, although you could never tell it. And, they feel the same way. To them, it's an honor to live here and they are proud to be English speaking Americans. Learning the language so they could blend in was the first thing they did when they came here.

 

[haraldo]

ARTICLE X: This is an English speaking country. We don't care where you are from, English is our language. Learn it or go back to wherever you came from!

I find this part super offensive.

I know it's an English speaking country. I freakin' live here and don't need to be told that. You don't care where I'm from? Good because I don't care that you don't care. Now that we're on the topic of not caring, the people in this country who make the rules don't care what you think. Your opinion on the matter has been deemed worthless. Go back to where I came from? I'm no more a product of a country than I am a product of a government. I am from the Earth and have enjoyed the pleasure of walking it in liberty regardless of the language I chose to speak. Please note that it has been my pleasure.

To me language is a function of communication. To communicate effectively with a person, I will continue to use the language that works best regardless of what country I am in.
Most of the time English works best.

I'll tell you for free that that sentiment is usually used against Spanish speaking people. I see the 'Speak English Or Get The F Out' stickers on hard hat's all the time. They aren't referring to Scandinavians. If it wasn't their language that was being picked on it would be something else like height, color or diet. Why don't we make it simple and just say it's okay to kick a ----?

Trying to help somebody speak English to make their lives easier is noble. Why offend them? Personally I think people should learn to use punctuation or turn their computers off. (Except for mike_c. )

Very good post....

So what are the thoughts on native Americans that don't speak English and that were there before the English speaking people, where should they go?

Consider t"he law of attraction", generally you very often attract what you think about, so if you're thoughts are on negative things, it's the negative things you get...If your mind is very positive, things will happen....

I don't think we'll get anywhere by focusing on what's wrong with other people.....

 

[jinjuku]

Very good post....

So what are the thoughts on native Americans that don't speak English and that were there before the English speaking people, where should they go?

Consider t"he law of attraction", generally you very often attract what you think about, so if you're thoughts are on negative things, it's the negative things you get...If your mind is very positive, things will happen....

I don't think we'll get anywhere by focusing on what's wrong with other people.....

Agreed. You can either whine about the changing demographic of the U.S. or you can try to make it to your advantage.

Me? The wife and I are taking Spanish classes. Much easier for me to learn a second language (my wife's fourth) than make a bunch of immigrants learn English.

Bottom line: Yes English is the current/default language. No it isn't going to kill anyone to learn a second language either way. Truth is you will be farther ahead on the curve if you do. Learn and adapt, make it to your advantage.

 

[Alex2507]

So, tell me, why do you see Latinos singled out in this post?

I see the 'Speak English Or Get The F Out' stickers on hard hat's all the time.
They aren't referring to Scandinavians.

The sentiment does apply to them and maybe because of the large number of them in this country it is easier for them to get by without English. Who cares why? My point is that the sentiment is rude, offensive and counter productive.

I think people in Rhode Island should be forced to pronounce their 'R's and should be penalized for adding them where they don't belong. You don't drink sode-er!

So what are the thoughts on native Americans that don't speak English and that were there before the English speaking people, where should they go?

All the Indians I ever met spoke English anyways.

I don't think we'll get anywhere by focusing on what's wrong with other people.....

Try living in Rhode Island for a while and see if you can still say that with a clear conscience.
Just kidding! If I didn't like it here I assure you that I would be elsewhere.

 

[haraldo]

All the Indians I ever met spoke English anyways.

That pretty much renders my statement useless

 

[markw]

which begs the question...

Do all Alaskans drop the last "g on their words? "

 

[Alex2507]

Do all Alaskans drop the last "g on their words? "

I lived in Cagary, Alberta a long time ago and some of my friends use to razz me about using a harsh 'guh' sound at the end of words like 'going'.

Torontonians don't pronounce the second 'T' in Toronto.

I think it's due to some kind of frost bite damage.

 

[haraldo]

Torontonians don't pronounce the second 'T' in Toronto.

Torontonians don't have an ear for language
When I was there somebody asked me if I was Australian

 

[itschris]

I stayed out of this one for awhile to see if it would eventually break down to the usual nonsensical criticism. I read the issues people took with what was written and unfortunately I guess it's hard to shock and even surprise me these days. For me it literally sums up why we're suddenly flounding as a country.