I would like to thank the American people

[MidnightSensi]

For the folks that use the Bible as their foundation for supporting their point of view:

The 'Unnaturalness' of Homosexuality vs Homosexual Behavior in the Animal Kingdom

Maybe if you read another book other than the Bible you would have a clue.

I'm pretty sure people who believe in the bible don't believe in evolution and wouldn't see the connection of that article to us. Adam, Eve.... a snake....some duct tape....an apple... a little Barry White... oh yeah baby.

 

[Halon451]

Removing people from under the yoke of biblical morality come state amendment is not political correctness. It is a group of people not wanting to be under the jack heel of a group of conservative religious zealots who think 'their way' is the only and better way.

I partially disagree with this. We have, in fact turned the concept of religion into an extremely political correctness ploy. We do not want to say the Pledge of Allegiance in school anymore for fear of upsetting those who may not believe in 'One nation under God'. We have removed prayer time in those schools for the very same reason. We have considered the removal of "In God we Trust" from our national currency for fear of upsetting those living in this country who are not Christian or believe in God altogether. It is very much a cornerstone of political correctness these days, I do not know how or why anyone would fail to understand this.

Your words imply an underlying bitterness that I can't comprehend - when was the last time you yourself was under the "jack heel of any group of conservative religious zealots who thought their way was the only and better way?' What, specifically has been mandated to you as a direct correlation of supposed "God's will"? Your words would, possibly ring of truth if we were still in 16th or 17th century England. But in America 2008, it only indicates that you fail to see this issue for what it is, and how little it truly impacts your life if someone in government proclaims their belief in God. So what??

Live and let live - you are liberal right? I guess this principle only applies to those who actually are in firm agreement with liberal points of view. And Sarah Palin gets bashed for her references to her faith in God, when she is only speaking from her own convictions on a Christian talk show to a Christian leader. Incredible, these days... I tell ya.

 

[Davemcc]

The beauty of a good Jehovah's Witness is that if you tell them you never want to see or speak to them again it's over.

Where's the fun in that? When they show up at my house, I invite them in and try to convert them to atheism. I figure it's only fair that if they show up at my door to convert me, it's only fair that I should have the opportunity to convert them, too?

Use to be that marriage was a proclamation to friends and family that you were gonna keep her after that night. Now it's a proclamation to God and country that she is going to keep everything after that day.

Ain't that the truth.

 

[bandphan]

Flavor flav for time keeping post

come along way

 

[Alex2507]

Where's the fun in that? When they show up at my house, I invite them in and try to convert them to atheism. I figure it's only fair that if they show up at my door to convert me, it's only fair that I should have the opportunity to convert them, too?

The only time I ever invited them in was when a couple of girls showed up. They must have glimpsed my inner monkey because suddenly they were under no circumstances coming in that door.

That was 25 years ago in a land far far away, Calgary.

 

[Davemcc]

The only time I ever invited them in was when a couple of girls showed up. They must have glimpsed my inner monkey because suddenly they were under no circumstances coming in that door.

That was 25 years ago in a land far far away, Calgary.

I had that happen once, too.

I opened my door and there stood this hottie, hot, hottie. Then she showed me the Watchtower or whatever pamphlet they have. I was all set to invite her on in until I poked my head out the door and saw another "not so hottie" with a bunch of kids making the rounds with her. Talk about a buzz-kill. "Move along...nothing to see here."

 

[Exit]

I don’t believe in political correctness - if you have got a good reason for what you believe, let the criticisms fly. I don’t believe there is any opinion in simply stating one of Gods laws, or pointing out Gods laws come first before man’s laws. Believing in God is not an opinion, its faith. Everyone is free to believe or not believe in anything they want (i.e. man has free will). But if you follow what I wrote, there was no malice in it. It is simply the way things are if you read the bible and believe in God. So now you know what the bible says on homosexuality without having to read it yourselves. (Why would someone who doesn’t believe in God and the Bible read it themselves?) Now you can understand one reason why some pro-God people vote against legalizing Gay marriage. It represents undermining God’s law, and that is what is most objectionable.

 

[jinjuku]

I

Your words imply an underlying bitterness that I can't comprehend - when was the last time you yourself was under the "jack heel of any group of conservative religious zealots who thought their way was the only and better way?' What, specifically has been mandated to you as a direct correlation of supposed "God's will"?

I can't buy beer on Sunday. I am not bitter at all. The way you view me in this is the way I view you. I will leave it at that.

You stick with the Bible, I'll stick with science.

 

[TLS Guy]

I partially disagree with this. We have, in fact turned the concept of religion into an extremely political correctness ploy. We do not want to say the Pledge of Allegiance in school anymore for fear of upsetting those who may not believe in 'One nation under God'. We have removed prayer time in those schools for the very same reason. We have considered the removal of "In God we Trust" from our national currency for fear of upsetting those living in this country who are not Christian or believe in God altogether. It is very much a cornerstone of political correctness these days, I do not know how or why anyone would fail to understand this.

Your words imply an underlying bitterness that I can't comprehend - when was the last time you yourself was under the "jack heel of any group of conservative religious zealots who thought their way was the only and better way?' What, specifically has been mandated to you as a direct correlation of supposed "God's will"? Your words would, possibly ring of truth if we were still in 16th or 17th century England. But in America 2008, it only indicates that you fail to see this issue for what it is, and how little it truly impacts your life if someone in government proclaims their belief in God. So what??

Live and let live - you are liberal right? I guess this principle only applies to those who actually are in firm agreement with liberal points of view. And Sarah Palin gets bashed for her references to her faith in God, when she is only speaking from her own convictions on a Christian talk show to a Christian leader. Incredible, these days... I tell ya.

I wanted to avoid this but I can't. I have been a life long Republican, voted conservative when I was in the UK and Canada. Now my party has got taken over by people who live in logical if not religious error. I'm proud to have cast my vote for President Obama.

It is patently not defensible to be a biblical literalist, as it defies evidence and logic.

There is overwhelming evidence that the world was not created in seven days, and for the age of the universe. The evidence for the evolution of species is also overwhelming.

Now if you say faith trumps that, then you are subject to be able to believe anything.

So if you really can not be logical, weigh and analyze data correctly in these matters, then your judgment has to be suspect in all areas.

Therefore I would be totally against a candidate like Sarah Palin holding any type of political office, as her views on this matter disqualify her form making the claim she can come to a logical decision based on data and overwhelming evidence.

This had nothing whatever to do with a belief in God, or a divine creator. It just has to do with interpreting data, sifting evidence and coming to a logical conclusion. Concluding that the world was made in seven days, is unreasonable and illogical. In other words it is ideology at its worst.

It is time to alienate the Republican base.

Time to go to some meetings and have a sort out. Big time!

 

[jinjuku]

First off: I didn't bring the bible into this thread. Others did.

Even if you argued California Prop 8 on some other moral backing, other than religious belief, it still comes down to instituting your will upon someone for simply being biologically who they are.

It's prejudiced. It's decisive. It's bigoted.

It was ok for a while that a black person was 2/3rd a person of a Caucasian. I am sure there was plenty of backing for that too.

Might doesn't make right. It simply means you hold larger numbers or a larger club. That you have no compunction about beating someone over the head with it just because it suites you to do so because a lack of self faith and insecurity in ones own marriage or sexuality.

It takes a much bigger and well trained/disciplined mind to do the right thing in the face of overwhelming odds.

My hats off to my gay friends that don't take any ones shite just so they can be who they were born to be. I don't know if I am made of that steel.

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

Who is arguing creationism here?

And as far as I'm aware, Palin has never stated that she believes in Creationism - only that it makes sense to teach it in public schools as an alternative to Evolution.

I don't buy that anybody who's a "lifelong Republican" and always voted Conservative could ever pull the switch for Obama. How is it possible to go from Conservative to voting for the most far-left Presidental candidate this country has ever seen? Me, I wouldn't vote for Obama with a gun to my head - I also wouldn't vote for McCain either. But I'm truly Conservative, so I voted for a true Conservative - Chuck Baldwin. There was also Bob Barr on the ballot. I'd even have voted for Nader before Obama.

So ... just trying to understand here. You're a Republican, but didn't vote Republican this time around because they're in "Religious error". So instead you voted for a man with a Muslim father, Muslim step-father, Muslim Mother, who was raised in Indonesian Muslim schools, and has even been said in the New York Times as seen quoting the Shahada as an adult ... but who has lied and recreated his religious past because a Muslim politician would have 0 chance of being elected? That makes sense.

 

[Davemcc]

Therefore I would be totally against a candidate like Sarah Palin holding any type of political office, as her views on this matter disqualify her form making the claim she can come to a logical decision based on data and overwhelming evidence.

I hope your not suggesting that Obama's religious views are any more acceptable. Have you looked into his long time pastor Rev. Wright and the Black Liberation Theology of Cone and Hopkins that Obama followed for many years and claimed to be a devout follower of? That makes no more or less sense than Palin's belief's. Or is it enough that Obama disavowed Wright AFTER he found it could cost him the presidency. Nothing like a new, electable faith to go along with that campaign slogan.

Let's face it. No credible candidate for President of the USA can reasonably expect to get elected with espousing a devout adherence to some form of Christian mysticism or another. So no matter who you vote for, you can expect that they have professed some sort of supernatural belief as a credential to their supporters. It's as if suspension of logic and reason in deference to faith is a requirement to be president.

 

[aberkowitz]

It was ok for a while that a black person was 2/3rd a person of a Caucasian. I am sure there was plenty of backing for that too.

Don't give the framers that much credit.... blacks were only worth 3/5 of whites according to the Constitution!

 

[jinjuku]

Don't give the framers that much credit.... blacks were only worth 3/5 of whites according to the Constitution!

Thanks for the correction...

 

[OttoMatic]

I don't buy that anybody who's a "lifelong Republican" and always voted Conservative could ever pull the switch for Obama. How is it possible to go from Conservative to voting for the most far-left Presidental candidate this country has ever seen? Me, I wouldn't vote for Obama with a gun to my head

The most-cited reasons that McCain lost are Palin, his being out-of-touch on the economy and his dirty campaign. Clearly, it drove some R's to vote for Obama.

...Muslim ... Muslim ... Muslim ... Muslim

First, there's nothing inherently wrong with being Muslim. If I didn't know any better, I might think you're trying to equate Muslim and Terrorist.

but who has lied and recreated his religious past because a Muslim politician would have 0 chance of being elected? That makes sense.

But I thought he was a bad guy for being in Rev. Wright's Christian church for the past 20 years. Are you implying that he's secretly been a Muslim that whole time?

 

[jinjuku]

The most-cited reasons that McCain lost are Palin, his being out-of-touch on the economy and his dirty campaign. Clearly, it drove some R's to vote for Obama.



First, there's nothing inherently wrong with being Muslim. If I didn't know any better, I might think you're trying to equate Muslim and Terrorist.



But I thought he was a bad guy for being in Rev. Wright's Christian church for the past 20 years. Are you implying that he's secretly been a Muslim that whole time?

Ohhhh Snap!

We play both kinds of music here: Country and Western

 

[TLS Guy]

Who is arguing creationism here?

And as far as I'm aware, Palin has never stated that she believes in Creationism - only that it makes sense to teach it in public schools as an alternative to Evolution.

I don't buy that anybody who's a "lifelong Republican" and always voted Conservative could ever pull the switch for Obama. How is it possible to go from Conservative to voting for the most far-left Presidental candidate this country has ever seen? Me, I wouldn't vote for Obama with a gun to my head - I also wouldn't vote for McCain either. But I'm truly Conservative, so I voted for a true Conservative - Chuck Baldwin. There was also Bob Barr on the ballot. I'd even have voted for Nader before Obama.

So ... just trying to understand here. You're a Republican, but didn't vote Republican this time around because they're in "Religious error". So instead you voted for a man with a Muslim father, Muslim step-father, Muslim Mother, who was raised in Indonesian Muslim schools, and has even been said in the New York Times as seen quoting the Shahada as an adult ... but who has lied and recreated his religious past because a Muslim politician would have 0 chance of being elected? That makes sense.

I voted for Obama, because he is consistent and logical. I downloaded and watched his series Faith and politics. They as usual were well thought out lectures.

I think you will find he will bring the closest thing to an evidence based administration, we have seen in our life times.

I don't care what his background is. I just can see a thoughtful reasoned individual. He can revise and extend his views based on best evidence and not ideology, be it conservative, liberal or otherwise. After giving him a hearing and reading his writings, I find the most attractive thing about him is that you can't pigeon hole him.

I hope you will see a quite extraordinary presidency.

Any by the way, being the world's best orator since Winston Churchill won't hurt either. I'm just staggered at how the vast majority of the leaders of the western world have been such awful orators. Anyway you cut it that is a serious handicap for leadership.

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

Even if you argued California Prop 8 on some other moral backing, other than religious belief, it still comes down to instituting your will upon someone for simply being biologically who they are.

It's prejudiced. It's decisive. It's bigoted.

No, it's not. Marriage IS a Religious institution, period. I have no problem with some sort of union for gays, and them having equal rights under that union, but it can't carry the title marriage.

It's dismissive to write off that viewpoint as prejudiced, or bigoted.

Might doesn't make right. It simply means you hold larger numbers or a larger club. That you have no compunction about beating someone over the head with it just because it suites you to do so because a lack of self faith and insecurity in ones own marriage or sexuality.

So ... you're saying that my viewpoint points to insecurity in my own sexuality? I doubt you're going to gain much traction trying to make that

My hats off to my gay friends that don't take any ones shite just so they can be who they were born to be. I don't know if I am made of that steel.

You WANT to believe that gays are gay because of a biological condition from birth, but you can't prove it.

You're no more enlightened because you have lots of gay friends and carry the torch of equality for them. All that means is that the word of the Bible carrys no weight with you ... and that you're a product of social engineering.

I had two good friends in college that were gay, I never once judged them. My ex wife had a good friend who was gay, he and I watched football together all the time ... he was just like one of the guys, even called people 'faggots' as basic guy talk. I liked hanging out with him, and never once judged him. But concerning all the gays I have known, I just wish the best for their soul. I hope they make peace with God before death and ask forgiveness, because as their friend I'd like to see them again in the afterlife.

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

The most-cited reasons that McCain lost are Palin, his being out-of-touch on the economy and his dirty campaign. Clearly, it drove some R's to vote for Obama.

He lost because of George Bush, plain and simple. Only a small percentage of the weak Conservatives were swayed ... McCain still got 48% of the vote.

First, there's nothing inherently wrong with being Muslim. If I didn't know any better, I might think you're trying to equate Muslim and Terrorist.

Please quote where I said it was bad to be a Muslim.

I said it's bad to lie about your background for political gain, but that's become such the status quo that we accept it without pause.

But I thought he was a bad guy for being in Rev. Wright's Christian church for the past 20 years. Are you implying that he's secretly been a Muslim that whole time?

You're clearly unversed in the ties between Islam and Black Liberation Theology.

 

[jvgillow]

Let's face it. No credible candidate for President of the USA can reasonably expect to get elected with espousing a devout adherence to some form of Christian mysticism or another. So no matter who you vote for, you can expect that they have professed some sort of supernatural belief as a credential to their supporters. It's as if suspension of logic and reason in deference to faith is a requirement to be president.

I'll agree with that statement. It will be another hurdle to pass in future election years.