Location (and model) for built-in speakers ?

[Bill F]

Hello!

I need advice on the best solution (location and actual model) for built-in speakers when the TV area, and rest of home, has lots of glass.

(I've made a web page with this same text, plus some images. It's at marin-remodeling [dot]com )

First, a reality check: I'm an AV lightweight. In 1982, a year out of college, I bought a pair of Klipsch Heresys and a Yamaha receiver; I thought I was an audiophile. Fifteen years later, with the receiver having a few problems, I went to an estate sale and bought a second pair of Klipsch's (KG-3s) and another Yamaha, to replace the problematic first one. Four years ago I bought a Klipsch center channel - to really enjoy DVDs - but the setup wasn't magical. Problem was likely the age of the receiver: It's a Yamaha RX-V1050 "Pro Logic" which is before 5-channel was invented. Bottom line: DVD voice-audio was always a bit... crowded-out by all the other sounds in the movie.

A year or so ago my wife commented that my four big Klipsch boxes seemed sort of... collegiate. I somewhat agreed, and since we'd be needing every inch of space during the upcoming remodel, I sold them on Craigslist, and picked up a pair of Definitive Technologies Studio Monitor 450s, which seem nice for the size.

Which brings me to today. The remodel's in full swing, and, since all the walls are open (and since space will be precious when we're done), I'm planning on built-in speakers.

My understanding is that most modern receivers have a switch that allows them to function as HT or "all-speaker-stereo", and that capability is important to me. 92% of listening will be the "rock" that 40-somethings listen to (the Dead, U-2, Death Cab, etc.) and maybe twice a week we'll watch a DVD.

I'm thinking that there are two sets of speakers: the main kitchen/LR and a pair at the end of the "new wing, where the home offices will be.

I'm now assuming that the main set, hereafter "the HT set", will be ceiling mounted, since it seems impossible to properly place the left front any other way. Seems that the pair at the end of the wing should be mounted in the end wall, to point the length of the corridor.

TV will be wall-mounted, since it's easy to add any studs now. Electronics I guess will be under the TV since there's not really a better place.

Household is just the two of us. I assume the bedroom will have its own TV/DVD/stereo, rather than some fancy solution through the main entertainment system.

A month ago there was a hot deal on Craigslist for 4 SpeakerCraft speakers - a deal that I missed while researching the brand. But I have sort of bought in to the advantage of "pointable" (e.g., SpeakerCraft AIM) speakers. Meanwhile someone else has advocated Klipsch's directional CDT-2650-C

Budget becomes a key detail here, and I don't have an answer. I seem to jump on deals if the price is great. But it's clear that I need all components for a 5.1 system in the main room - a 5.1 system that will service the couch that's not perfectly placed, plus provide quality music listening. In addition there will be need for a pair of speakers (each a single channel, or a pair of monos?) in the far end of the wing.

For the bedroom, or the downstairs rental (to help pay for all this madness!) I do have 4 RBH MC-6s that I bought off this site's classifieds a month ago because, as I indicated, if the price seems right, I'll move.

ANYWAY - HELP! Please share your wisdom. Do you agree that I should go-ceiling-mount? Should my objective be any SpeakerCraft AIM, or only the AIM xx's, or any "pointable", or...?

What should I use for the center?

The sub?

Any receivers that will still leave me with a few dollars in my pocket?

(Anyone want to buy my Yamaha RX-V1050?! ;-)

Thanks for your time -
Bill in SF

 

[bandphan]

IMO you should do inwalls for the LCR and inceilng for the surrounds. The inwall would be more ideal for imaging. Does the sub need to be inwall / infloor? Are you doing the install?

 

[Bill F]

Hi there,

I assumed that the front Left needed to be in-ceiling, since there's not much wall to the left of the TV. Thus the front right would be in-ceiling too. Center would be attached to the articulating arm that held the TV.

I've not thought for a second where the sub would be.

Re install, I haven't thought about it. My electrician and I will be running the wiring, but if there's something special about actually mounting the speakers, then I'd consider bringing in someone special. (But money-wise, I hate to start up that road...)

Bill

 

[bandphan]

How much Wall? I cant tell by the pdf. If the electrician is wiring have him follow the cedia Standard.

 

[Bill F]

I just realized that I failed to provide the correct page link for my home's website - I left off the actual page name - it's not listed on the home page's menu...

So page address is
marin-remodeling[dot]com/av.htm

And there is a scale on this PDF, as well as some pictures of upstairs. Does this help ?

Bill.

 

[Gimpy Ric]

Welcome to the forums! Really cool house . If your going to do this right, you need some coin for ceiling speakers, as the location of the TV makes in walls "un-doable". Let me go find some worthy ceiling speakers.

These are by Snell, and I like the specs, Five of these and a subwoofer and you would be jamming. The only problem is that they are 4 ohm, so proper amplification is in order.

Here is a link to Speakercrafts in ceiling speakers. Not as exotic as Snell, but still well respected. They have some neat speakers.

Hope this helps

Ric

 

[Bill F]

Hio Rick,

Thanks for the posting. Why do I sense that that Snell is out of my league?!

As to the SpeakerCrafts - last night I was on their site again, trying to narrow down what I should target, versus what I should buy if I suddenly find a deal on the local Craigslist. What I decided was that the AIM series was my target. Then my eyes glassed over, as I tried to quickly figure out the difference between the different "series" - eight, seven, one, etc...

If anyone wants to clarify that for me, I'd be grateful. ;-)

Bill.

 

[Gimpy Ric]

We need Mazer in here, but he's dropped off the radar for the last week or so. He has speakercraft, but really likes the Snells To run the Snells you would need an external amp capable of 5 channels at 4 ohms, the cheapest being the Emotiva XPA-5 @ $799.00

I look over the Speakercraft specs and see if I can tell you whats going on...But give me a few min.

The AIM8 Five Is impressive with rotating 8" Kevlar Woofer, and rotating 1" soft dome tweeter. Very nice, with bass and treble controls. These would make exceptional Front Left, Center, and Front Right. OMG $849.00 a pair. Hey I paid 1k for my front towers. I would make sure they get installed down to the T as recommended by Speakercraft so they sound right.

Ok, I figured it out...AIM8 series all have 8" woofers, the AIM5's have 5" woofers, etc. The AIM8 Five is the top of the line, and the AIM8 One is the bottom of the line 8" ceiling speaker

I would try and get three matching AIM8 series for the fronts, and two matching AIM5's for the rear. And your going to HAVE TO HAVE A SUBWOOFER! SVS makes some tube subs that are covered in black carpet and look like scratching post for kitties.

For prices just google like this: "Speakercraft AIM8 Three" and you'll find out from several places the price.

All of these may require an enclosure in the attic for each one, just something simple I would think.

Good Luck and let us know what you pick out.

Ric

 

[Bill F]

Thanks Rick,

Let me jump back to a detail in my original posting. Someone suggested that I should consider the "pointable" Klipsch in-ceiling line, specifically the CDT-2650-C. Is this also a reasonable consideration, or is SpeakerCraft a step above, buck for buck?

Bill in rainy SF

 

[Gimpy Ric]

Thanks Rick,

Let me jump back to a detail in my original posting. Someone suggested that I should consider the "pointable" Klipsch in-ceiling line, specifically the CDT-2650-C. Is this also a reasonable consideration, or is SpeakerCraft a step above, buck for buck?

Bill in rainy SF

Many people find Klipsch speakers very bright and therefore "tiring". I would stick with Speakercraft or another brand of their caliber.

I wish Mazer was around...

 

[bandphan]

Aside from whats mentioned niles audio makes great speakers for your application. Another to throw into the mix would be triad. Just try to demo as many as possible.

 

[Bill F]

Thanks. The person suggested Klipschs since I had listened to a pair of Heresys for 25 years. But I wasn't convinced that the argument was valid... (But they were half the price of the "equivalent" SpeakerCraft, I'd probably go for them...)

 

[jcPanny]

HT speakers

Also check out Triad and Sonance also make some good inceiling speakers. The in-ceiling speakers for the kitchen and other rooms are not nearly as critical so get a cheaper model.

Also, before you compromise too much, floorstanders might work for the front even it the wall is shorter or lacking on one side. Some of the cabinets w/ real wood veneer can compliment your other furniture.

 

[Bill F]

Hi!

I think floor-standers are out of the question; we're squeezing into one half of the house to as to make rental income, and every square inch of floor space is important.

As to Triad and Sonance - OK, but I really could use help picking out specific models.

Thanks!

Bill

 

[Bill F]

PS - I was just on eBay an hour ago and picked up a single SpeakerCraft AIM 8 One in-ceiling speaker. Yeah - I know that a single speaker just limits my future purchasing options, but I got the thing for $61, so I'll just repost it if the folks on this site guide me in a different direction.

Bill

 

[Gimpy Ric]

PS - I was just on eBay an hour ago and picked up a single SpeakerCraft AIM 8 One in-ceiling speaker. Yeah - I know that a single speaker just limits my future purchasing options, but I got the thing for $61, so I'll just repost it if the folks on this site guide me in a different direction.

Bill

Bill this could be a good thing! Sold new, they come in pairs, but for surround sound you need at least five. The AIM8 series are all timbre matched, so you could use this single as the center channel speaker. Then by a pair of AIM8 One's for the left front and right front. Thats ideal, three matched front speakers. Pick up some AIM7's or AIM5's for your rear surround and your set. You could even use Polk or another brand for the rear, but the fronts should all be by the same company.

Ric

 

[Bill F]

OK, Looks like I'm going to collect five SpeakerCraft AIM speakers. What can folks tell me about an appropriate sub? (Ric - You stated "SVS makes some tube subs" - Something I should focus on?) Anyone recommend (or selling?!) an amp that I should consider ? (Needs to run room A, room B, and both room A and B, and needs to run music through all speakers in my room A HT setup.)

Thanks,
Bill.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

The SpeakerCraft AIMS are good speakers. I use SC in my bedroom and I am impressed with them.

SVS is difficult to beat for a sub. The best thing to do is call them, tell them about your room and see what they say. They are very down to earth and honest.

AVRs really depend on the features you are looking for. Any of the mid range offerings from Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha or Marantz would work just fine. What are you looking for and what's the budget for the AVR?

 

[Bill F]

I'm on a roll! Yesterday I bought a pair of SpeakerCraft AIM 8 Threes. My latest plan is to sell the single AIM 8 One I bought two days ago, and make the HT front three AIM 8 Threes, and the back either a pair of AIM 6 threes, or who knows - more 8s if the price is close. (My logic: 90% of the time, system will be playing music, not DVDs, so my rear speakers are really not less important...)

I spoke with Ron at SoundSeller (out of Wisconsin), and he suggested a sub that he had hot pricing on: the Tantra TS-10 for $600, or the TS-12 for $700. Any thoughts on this?

He also suggested that I use a pair of SpeakerCraft AIM7 MT Three for the end of the "wing". Any thoughts on that addition to upstairs?

And, as to a budget for the receiver/amp - I have no idea what I need to spend. But someone said that SpeakerCraft speakers like power. (Note: I am a bubie. I'm overspending (for me) on the speakers, since, as built-ins, they will never be touched again. The amp, on the other hand, can always be upgraded if I win the lottery.)

Cheers -

Bill in SF

 

[Gimpy Ric]

Congrats on the Upgrade! I checked the website, and the AIM8 Three's are average efficiency and require 5-150 watts per channel. I can't help you with a receiver, I don't keep up with the various offerings and their are more qualified people here that can.

As far as a sub goes, your going to spend at least $500.00 for a decent one. Not anything from Best Buy, or Circuit City. Two great Internet Direct companies are Hsu Research and SVS and are very well respected. I've owned the top of the line from both, and they are committed to great sounding subs. My current is an SVS PB13 Ultra in Piano Black. It takes no prisoners! The tube version is called the PC13 Ultra, and it looks like a big scratching post covered in black carpet. Contact both companies and they will give you honest answers as to how much sub you need.for your open floor plan. Subs are expensive, and you can never have to much sub. Not enough and you've just wasted money you can't feel or hear in a large room.