Record player question

[Cygnus]

Okay, here's the deal, I just bought Steely Dan's Gaucho, and Rush's Snakes and Arrows on 180gram wicked-awesome vinyl. I also have these:
Feist - Let it Die (canadian version)
Feist - The Reminder (white vinyl version)
Emily Haines & The Soft Skeleton - Knives Don't Have Your Back
Led Zeppelin I on 180gram vinyl


Okay so here's my dilemma. I could spend a lot of dough and get an Audio Technica AT-PL120 (about $350 off of eBay) or a PL50 off of eBay for about $100. The PL120 is direct drive (which I have been led to beleive is the best thing since sliced bread, as opposed to belt drive) They both have built in pre-amps which is a total plus for me because I dont want to buy another amp for just this.

Will I notice a huge difference between these two, or can I just play it safe and go for the cheaper one? What do you guys think?

 

[Cygnus]

I've actually been reading reviews on the AT-PL50 and a lot of people say that it skips their records. Is this a customer set up issue? I don't know but its kind of veering me away from purchasing it. I was also looking at a $200 sony, but I dont know. Now I'm looking at reviews for the AT-PL120 and there is one review that says that the anti-skate function doesn't work at all and thaty once the arm reaches the end of the record, it'lll slide right across the smooth part, scratching it. Good lord, im flustered!

 

[MidnightSensi]

You can find Technics 1200 and 1210 mk. II turntables pretty cheap on eBay. Get the real thing.

Info on the Technics 1200/10:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SL-1200

I got two.

 

[Seth=L]

I second the recommendation of the Technics SL-1200. I have an SL-1200MK3. Technics designed the SL-1200 first and foremost as a home audio product. It's design intent was to be the best mass production record player available. They spent a lot of money (equivelent to millions today) researching and designing the "perfect" turntable. The SL-1200 has been in production since the early 70's and has had 5 major revisions since it's conception. They are still sold today, and due to their stellar build quality and durability they are the choice TT for DJs around the world.

If you put a good cartridge on the Technics, such as the Denon DL-110, it will outperform basically anything under a grand.

 

[TLS Guy]

Okay, here's the deal, I just bought Steely Dan's Gaucho, and Rush's Snakes and Arrows on 180gram wicked-awesome vinyl. I also have these:
Feist - Let it Die (canadian version)
Feist - The Reminder (white vinyl version)
Emily Haines & The Soft Skeleton - Knives Don't Have Your Back
Led Zeppelin I on 180gram vinyl


Okay so here's my dilemma. I could spend a lot of dough and get an Audio Technica AT-PL120 (about $350 off of eBay) or a PL50 off of eBay for about $100. The PL120 is direct drive (which I have been led to beleive is the best thing since sliced bread, as opposed to belt drive) They both have built in pre-amps which is a total plus for me because I dont want to buy another amp for just this.

Will I notice a huge difference between these two, or can I just play it safe and go for the cheaper one? What do you guys think?

There is nothing wrong with belt drive turntables, in fact they are preferred over direct drive, unless a fast starting speed and high torque is mandatory. The reason being that there is always a slight cog effect from servo controlled motors. They don't spin in a completely smooth fashion. The drive belt damps this out.

Now the problem I see with the cheaper turntable is the arm looks like a nasty device. It does not say there is a counterweight or that the tracking force is adjustable. I'm suspicious it is a sprung balanced arm which is never a good thing. Also the arm is automatic, so the stylus has to drag a lot of extra mechanism. I don't think there is any skating force compensation either. I think the turntable is likely OK, but I have severe reservations about the pickup arm.

A well designed pickup arm is one of the most important features of a record playing deck.

 

[Cygnus]

Do the 1200's have built in pre-amps? I'm also worried about buying used players because of noise from dust or whatever already on the needle. Would that be a big concern? I'm looking to buy a turntable for 2 reasons
1: So I can listen to the vinyl, obviously
2: So I can convert it myself for my ipod, so I can have high quality version of these albums. I dont want a USB-to-MP3 because that totally defeats the purpose of keeping quality. I would go direct from the turntable (or amp as the case may be) to my PC and save them as WAV's and slap that on my ipod.

 

[TLS Guy]

Okay, here's the deal, I just bought Steely Dan's Gaucho, and Rush's Snakes and Arrows on 180gram wicked-awesome vinyl. I also have these:
Feist - Let it Die (canadian version)
Feist - The Reminder (white vinyl version)
Emily Haines & The Soft Skeleton - Knives Don't Have Your Back
Led Zeppelin I on 180gram vinyl


Okay so here's my dilemma. I could spend a lot of dough and get an Audio Technica AT-PL120 (about $350 off of eBay) or a PL50 off of eBay for about $100. The PL120 is direct drive (which I have been led to beleive is the best thing since sliced bread, as opposed to belt drive) They both have built in pre-amps which is a total plus for me because I dont want to buy another amp for just this.

Will I notice a huge difference between these two, or can I just play it safe and go for the cheaper one? What do you guys think?

There is nothing wrong with belt drive turntables, in fact they are preferred over direct drive, unless a fast starting speed and high torque is mandatory. The reason being that there is always a slight cog effect from servo controlled motors. They don't spin in a completely smooth fashion. The drive belt damps this out.

Now the problem I see with the cheaper turntable is the arm looks like a nasty device. It does not say there is a counterweight or that the tracking force is adjustable. I'm suspicious it is a sprung balanced arm which is never a good thing. Also the arm is automatic, so the stylus has to drag a lot of extra mechanism. I don't think there is any skating force compensation either. I think the turntable is likely OK, but I have severe reservations about the pickup arm.

A well designed pickup arm is one of the most important features of a record playing deck.

You might be lucky, in these difficult economic times, and get this unit for a song. A unit like this is an excellent turntable and significantly superior to Far Eastern models in many respects.

 

[TLS Guy]

Do the 1200's have built in pre-amps?

No, but you can get a serviceable phono preamp very reasonably. That should be a minor criteria for selecting a turntable.

Fine engineering, and build quality should be paramount. The unit I steered you to has an arm by SME. Since the founding of the company SME arms have consistently been the finest available.

SME are still very much in business.

 

[Cygnus]

No, but you can get a serviceable phono preamp very reasonably. That should be a minor criteria for selecting a turntable.

Fine engineering, and build quality should be paramount. The unit I steered you to has an arm by SME. Since the founding of the company SME arms have consistently been the finest available.

SME are still very much in business.

That looks like a pretty slick unit there. What about dust as I mentioned earlier? Is that a problem? I also have a budget to put into consideration. Probably capped at $350CDN. Oh, that's another thing. I need to be able to find it/have it shipped to Canada.

 

[Seth=L]

Belt Drive is preferred amongst the unknowing audiophile community. A properly employed Direct Drive is far superior to a belt drive table. This is not a matter of question, it simply is fact.

A short and simple explanation of why is in this link.

http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211_fall2002.web.dir/thomas_chapman/DIRECT VS BELT.htm

Fortunately the SL-1200 was designed with the weaknesses of Direct Drive in mind, effectively eliminating those pesky "vibrations".

 

[Cygnus]

Belt Drive is preferred amongst the unknowing audiophile community. A properly employed Direct Drive is far superior to a belt drive table. This is not a matter of question, it simply is fact.

A short and simple explanation of why is in this link.

http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211_fall2002.web.dir/thomas_chapman/DIRECT VS BELT.htm

Fortunately the SL-1200 was designed with the weaknesses of Direct Drive in mind, effectively eliminating those pesky "vibrations".

That's what I thought.

 

[TLS Guy]

That looks like a pretty slick unit there. What about dust as I mentioned earlier? Is that a problem? I also have a budget to put into consideration. Probably capped at $350CDN. Oh, that's another thing. I need to be able to find it/have it shipped to Canada.

That unit looks as it it has a Stanton cartridge fitted, but it does not say that is included in the sale. Styli are cleaned with pure Isopropyl alcohol. However stylus wear is an even bigger consideration, and used cartridges should have their styli inspected under an operating microscope, or be replaced with a good quality used cartridge.

 

[Seth=L]

That looks like a pretty slick unit there. What about dust as I mentioned earlier? Is that a problem? I also have a budget to put into consideration. Probably capped at $350CDN. Oh, that's another thing. I need to be able to find it/have it shipped to Canada.

Dust is an issue, of course. Vinyl will always have this problem. The best you can do is to properly clean your LPs with an LP cleaning solution and making sure your needle is also kept clean.

Here are some general steps you can follow.

http://www.ehow.com/how_11496_clean-turntable-stylus.html

If you purchase a quality cartridge it may come with cleaning instructions for the stylus that are specific to that unit. Be sure you follow those instructions if they are provided.

Playing LPs can be a chore.

 

[Cygnus]

That unit looks as it it has a Stanton cartridge fitted, but it does not say that is included in the sale. Styli are cleaned with pure Isopropyl alcohol. However stylus wear is an even bigger consideration, and used cartridges should have their styli inspected under an operating microscope, or be replaced with a good quality used cartridge.

Yeah thats true, I guess I can always just replace the cartridge. Maaan this is bugging me! I didn't think there would be so many things to consider!

 

[TLS Guy]

Belt Drive is preferred amongst the unknowing audiophile community. A properly employed Direct Drive is far superior to a belt drive table. This is not a matter of question, it simply is fact.

A short and simple explanation of why is in this link.

http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211_fall2002.web.dir/thomas_chapman/DIRECT VS BELT.htm

Fortunately the SL-1200 was designed with the weaknesses of Direct Drive in mind, effectively eliminating those pesky "vibrations".

I do not think it is a fact that direct drive is better, except in the matter of staring speed. Some of the best turntables have been belt drive. The technics line are certainly NOT the apogee of turntables, and I would personally never select one.

I bought my Thorens TD 150 in 1966, and did the first belt replacement about three years ago.

 

[Cygnus]

Would I just be fine with a AT-PL120? I mean, it'd be brand new, direct drive (wether that makes a difference is debatable, but I'd rather not debate it.) The ONLY thing that steers me away is that the arm doesn't automatically put itself back after a side is finished playing. Will this scratch the !@#$% out of my records? Edit: I don't really need a super-duper-more-bells-and-whistles-than-a-747 record player. I just want to listen to them, you know?

 

[Seth=L]

Yeah thats true, I guess I can always just replace the cartridge. Maaan this is bugging me! I didn't think there would be so many things to consider!

There's not a whole lot to consider if you really think about it. If you get the SL-1200 with a Denon DL-110 cartridge (a very linear cartridge for under $200). You could have a very capable system up and running for less than $500.

Make sure if you do get a SL-1200 that it's gently used, preferably not used for DJing. Rigerous use of the SL-1200 for DJing make result in damage to the tone arm. The tone arm must be firm and have no leeway in it. It must move without "knocking". If the tone arm is damaged it may not move linearly.

 

[Seth=L]

Would I just be fine with a AT-PL120? I mean, it'd be brand new, direct drive (wether that makes a difference is debatable, but I'd rather not debate it.) The ONLY thing that steers me away is that the arm doesn't automatically put itself back after a side is finished playing. Will this scratch the !@#$% out of my records?

I wouldn't use an automatic table, period. Not all direct drive tables are good.

 

[Cygnus]

I wouldn't use an automatic table, period. Not all direct drive tables are good.

Why wouldn't you use a automatic? Wear on the arm, or what?

 

[TLS Guy]

Would I just be fine with a AT-PL120? I mean, it'd be brand new, direct drive (wether that makes a difference is debatable, but I'd rather not debate it.) The ONLY thing that steers me away is that the arm doesn't automatically put itself back after a side is finished playing. Will this scratch the !@#$% out of my records? Edit: I don't really need a super-duper-more-bells-and-whistles-than-a-747 record player. I just want to listen to them, you know?

You want to avoid turntables that automatically put the arm back, for reasons I stated previously.

You have to understand that in turntables the performance greatly increases as you go up the price ladder, unlike CD and DVD players.