Subwoofer volume control help

[victor_vvv]

Hi,

I have an Athena 8'' subwoofer (I think it's actually called a S.5) which came with my Point 5 speaker set. Ever since i've gotten it, i've noticed that it sounds horrible during movies. I guess the proper term would be boomy? Seems like the woofer can't handle any explosions or loud sequences. I've got the volume at about 6/10 on the sub. My amp is a HK AVR 147. My room is relatively small (live in a condo).

Now, I know it's probably because the woofer being 8'' just can't handle the load, but is there anything I can do to make it sound a bit better other than getting a new sub? (I am looking for a AS-P4100 if anyone wants to sell me one for cheap).

I've heard that with the P4100, some say to keep the level down to 3 or 4 and turn the volume up on the amplifier? I'm not sure how to do this as my output is a pre-amp out to the sub. I don't think my amp has a separate volume adjustment for the subwoofer? And if I turn the master volume up, then everything else will be too loud. The manual for the amp does say there's a setting for bass/treble tone adjustment that I can bump up 10dB? Not sure if that does anything.

Thanks!

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Is there an auto calibration on your AVR? Regardless, there has to be a way to set it up.

 

[victor_vvv]

Is there an auto calibration on your AVR? Regardless, there has to be a way to set it up.

Since this is my second post, i'm not allowed to provide links until i reach 5. But you can find a pdf file of my amp's manual on the first google link if you type: harmon kardon avr 147 manual into it (no quotes).

I don't see where I can adjust the sub volume. There's speaker adjustments, but not for the sub. Correct me if i'm wrong. And I don't think I can turn the speakers down because when I'm watching movies, my master volume is already somewhere between -9 and -13dB. They recommend that 0dB is the maximum volume the amp can handle without damaging equipment. 0dB has something to do with a reference point (no idea why amps are confusing like that).


Thanks

 

[victor_vvv]

Oh, and yes, i've tried auto calibrating it already. it doesn't really do anything for the sub.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Looks like you can do a manual set up and turn the sub level up and down. Do the auto set-up first and then go back and set your speakers to small, crossover to 80hz and see how your sub sounds. Make certain your turn the crossover seeting on the sub as high as it will go and start with the gain about 1/3 or 1/2.

See page 27 of your owners manual.

 

[victor_vvv]

There is a switch on my sub that automatically adjusts the crossover frequency to match my speaker set (since they're both athena's). So i'm not sure what/if I still need to set a crossover frequency on my amp. Also, not sure where to adjust the gain. Is that just the volume knob on the sub?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

So your speakers are wired to your sub?

There is a switch on my sub that automatically adjusts the crossover frequency to match my speaker set (since they're both athena's). So i'm not sure what/if I still need to set a crossover frequency on my amp. Also, not sure where to adjust the gain. Is that just the volume knob on the sub?

 

[victor_vvv]

no. they all go into my amp. but my sub has independent crossover frequency adjustment? there's a bass range knob which i can adjust, or that knob can be bypassed using a switch on the sub that i can select to "P.5" - that way it is suppose to adjust to the exact crossover frequency that is best for the system.

So now i'm just confused. If I can adjust the frequency of the sub on the sub, then what do I need to adjust on the amp?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Your sub has no idea what to do and it doesn't know what speakers you are using unless they are ran through it. The way you have it set up, with a RCA cable going from the AVR to the sub is correct and allows you to use the AVR for bass management.

Let me try to find some info on your sub so I can see what we are dealing with. This is actually Adam's job so let me see if I can pull him in here too.

 

[victor_vvv]

There's not much out there about my particular subwoofer...But this is some info about one athena's other subs and how their "SCT" control works. I have basically the same technology in my sub:

The AS-P4000 features athena’s exclusive SCT control. This is the all important frequency adjustment, and ours is the easiest in the industry. athena has thoughtfully marked the frequency control with all of the model numbers for our speakers. Simply match the control to the model number of speaker you have in the front channels, and you have successfully set up the subwoofer.

So basically, I think my sub knows what speakers I have (S.5 L/R and Surr channels, C.5 centre channel) and precisely calibrates the cross over frequency to match them.

I found out that the S.5's have a frequency range of 80Hz to 20KHz, so i've set the crossover for the speakers to 80Hz.

Here's a link to the S.5 system:
http://www.athenaspeakers.com/v2/classic.php?ident=S.5&sub=manuals

If you click on the pdf file for recommended settings, it says to adjust the receiver so that the speakers are set to "Large"

Originally, I also had the sub setting to L/R + LFE which I think means that the low frequencies originally dedicated to the front speakers were being channeled to the sub. It may be better for me to set the sub setting to just LFE so the front speakers still process some low end frequencies. Since 1) Athena says to treat the speakers as large and 2) they're not really really small speakers, as they are capable of some low end frequencies (again, range is b/w 80Hz and 20KHz according to Athena).

What do you think?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I think I see what they are saying. They know where you should adjust the crossover based on what speakers you have. If you use the crossover on the sub then don't use the one in the AVR or you will have a cascade effect.

Go back to what I said originally, turn the crossover all the way up on the sub and use the one in the AVR. Set your speakers to small and see how it sounds.

Try a crossover of 100-12ohz since you speakers don't have much low extension.

My speakers go down to 28hz and guess what they are set to....SMALL....

There's not much out there about my particular subwoofer...But this is some info about one athena's other subs and how their "SCT" control works. I have basically the same technology in my sub:

The AS-P4000 features athena’s exclusive SCT control. This is the all important frequency adjustment, and ours is the easiest in the industry. athena has thoughtfully marked the frequency control with all of the model numbers for our speakers. Simply match the control to the model number of speaker you have in the front channels, and you have successfully set up the subwoofer.

So basically, I think my sub knows what speakers I have (S.5 L/R and Surr channels, C.5 centre channel) and precisely calibrates the cross over frequency to match them.

I found out that the S.5's have a frequency range of 80Hz to 20KHz, so i've set the crossover for the speakers to 80Hz.

Here's a link to the S.5 system:
http://www.athenaspeakers.com/v2/classic.php?ident=S.5&sub=manuals

If you click on the pdf file for recommended settings, it says to adjust the receiver so that the speakers are set to "Large"

Originally, I also had the sub setting to L/R + LFE which I think means that the low frequencies originally dedicated to the front speakers were being channeled to the sub. It may be better for me to set the sub setting to just LFE so the front speakers still process some low end frequencies. Since 1) Athena says to treat the speakers as large and 2) they're not really really small speakers, as they are capable of some low end frequencies (again, range is b/w 80Hz and 20KHz according to Athena).

What do you think?

 

[victor_vvv]

i just tried what you said. still no luck. if i turn the volume on the sub to 4, then i pretty much lose most of the low end and basically zero rumble a sub is suppose to make. if i turn it past 5, then it sounds like the woofer is reaching its maximum excursion and any time there's a more instense bass (not even talking about an explosion, just say the low rumbling sound of a star wars battleship), it gives out this god awful bbbbbbllllllll sound. i guess it's time for a new sub? My room is 18' x 9.5' so 171 sf....

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Sounds like that little sub just can't keep up. What's your budget for a new one? Can you return the one you have?

 

[victor_vvv]

no, unfortunately i can't return it. i've had it for years. just every now and then i get frustrated with it and try to do something about it. i guess i'm finally tired of it enough to really want a new one. I live in a condo so i can't be blasting it, and i'm not an audiophile by any means. Looking to spend $150-$200.

I heard the Dayton SUB 100 or 120 is pretty good. I've also heard that the Athena AS-P4100 or P4000 is on par with or slightly better than it. Considering my speakers are Athena, i'm leaning towards the latter. And it looks nicer too. Assuming I can find it. Word is that Klipsch discontinued athena late last year. I did see the P4100 on amazon for $150 shipped a few months ago. Now it's gone and I regret not buying it when I had the chance. Other than that something about a x-sub from AV123 or is it now with Onix? I couldn't find it online anywhere.

Any recommendations? As well, should I be looking at 10'' or 12'' for my space?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I have heard that the Dayton subs are good but I have never heard one or read a review of one, same goes for the AV123. I did purchase a Klipsch sub12 at one point but returned it after 2 days.

 

[Adam]

(Greg, I got your PM. Sorry that I'm so late to the party.)

Hey, Victor. I'll see if I can add anything to what Greg said.

1. Regarding the volume of the sub, which is a combination of the subwoofer level in the receiver and the volume knob on the sub - it would be best, IMO, to set that volume using an SPL meter so that you could get it matched with your other speakers. The auto set-up on your receiver might do a good job, but if you want to tweak it, an SPL meter is good.

2. Given that you tried Greg's suggestion to run all of the bass management through your receiver and didn't like it, then certainly try it the way that Athena recommends. I'm assuming that's what you've done. I'm thinking that you would do it the way that you described. Set the front speakers to "large" and set the sub to "L/R + LFE". I haven't read your receiver's manual, yet, but that should send the bass frequencies from the fronts speakers to both the front speakers and the sub. When you use the crossover in the sub, it should work just like Athena intended. I'd experiment with setting the center and rear speakers to "large" and "small" to see how each sounds.

3. The boominess that you are experiencing might be caused by the placement of the sub in the room, so you might be able to reduce that boominess by moving the sub. Audioholics has some good info on how to set up a sub, including location. It's under the "Tips & Tricks" menu on the main Audioholics website, with the bass set-up articles located at this link here.

Adam