Tell me about your remote :)

[talmazor]

I recently sold off, and am still selling off (contact me if interested), the equipment from my dedicated home theater and setting up a new "mixed use" room for my family and my enjoyment (the wife decided she wanted the spare bedroom back).

The new setup is going to have only the screen in the family room, with all the equipment in an adjacent closet. The problem lies in trying to dumby proof the remote. Currently if one of the components is already on and you fire the macro on the remote, unless the unit has a distinct power on/off code, the device goes off/on and does the reverse that is needed. This is fine in my last setup because you could see all the components and either turned evertything off and fired the macro again, or you simply "fixed" the component that was messed up. In my new setup the components will be hidden and not somewhere I was "uneducated users", like my in-laws, to be messing with .

Does anyone know of, or using, a remote that can sense if the devices are on/off and act accordingly?

Thanks.

 

[jamie2112]

I have this and love it. It turns off one at a time as you select it.

http://www.universalremote.com/product_detail.php?model=102

 

[talmazor]

Turning the components on/off one at a time, isn't really the issue.

For example, if my son (5 years old) plays the Wii on the tv, he usually asks one of us to set it up for him, which is done by hitting "Play Wii" on the remote, but when he's done he usually manually turns off the tv (nice, but not so nice in the eyes of the remote). Now here comes along my mother-in-law, the babysitter etc., and hits "Watch TV" on the remote. The remote thinks the TV is already on, but just needs to change the input, so it doesn't fire an "ON" command for the remote to the TV, but does turn on my DVR, AMP, Pre-AMP etc. Now I get the phone call: "how do you get the TV to work?" So I tell them: "Did you hit 'Watch TV' on the remote?" and proceed to diagnose the problem over the phone to someone who can't even set the time on the VCR let along figure out why my AV system won't play "Dora the Explorer" to two awaiting and anxious kids.

I know that some remotes are smart enough to know what is on and what is not, by the use of another device attached to the component itself, but short of buying a Crestron remote etc. I'm not sure what other remote does it.

Any ideas?

 

[adk highlander]

In order for the system to know your 5 year old turned off the TV manually you would need some kind of status feedback that the remote system would acknowledge. I have yet to find this in any of the Harmony and IR based URC systems. Even the Niles systems I have used that do have this it was only for the receiver and not for sources or displays. You are going to need some kind of RS-232 control like Crestron or AMX. URC offers the MSC-400 which gives some Crestron like control at a cheaper cost. This still may not work if you TV does not accept RS-232 commands and you will have to program it.

I understand your plight and I have similar issues in my theater. I have recently upgraded to a MX-810 over a harmony 880 (I'm using IR) and I could not be happier. It will not read the status of a source but I have found discrete on/off commands for all my sources so as long as no one manually turns off a device I get what I need.

 

[Halon451]

That's a problematic issue that may or may not be resolved with technology!

I have a standard Universal remote that I've programmed with certain macros so that my wife can operate the HT, and easily switch between cable, DVD, etc., and it's usually a one button push to do either. I also have the "Power on/off" features programmed via macro key vs. utilizing the "System Power" on/off function built into the remote b/c my Yammy doesn't respond to the power button (as it goes into Standby instead of turning off).

I have worked with controls in the past in the commercial environment that can do what you are asking, but like you mentioned Crestron (and AMX for that matter), come at a much elevated cost for this level of functionality, and either through Ethernet interface or RS-232 control - I've never seen it done with RF or IR. Not saying it isn't possible, just that I've never seen it, personally.

Fortunately, it's only my wife and I that ever operate our little HT setup, and all the components are clustered together in the same room (under the TV), so it's easy to see if something is amiss before firing the macros. It may just take some patience to educate the little fella on how to properly turn on and off the equipment in accordance with your configuration, that his diligence is definitely appreciated, but there's a way that you do this, and here's how...

 

[jamie2112]

OOpps misread the post sorry...

 

[talmazor]

Thanks for the input, no pun intended

I'll have to check out the RS-232 controls and see what can be done. I did have the Harmony 1000 remote, which may or may not have been able to do something, but got rid of it instead of reprogramming, what a pain in the %$&@ programming that remote was. Now I have the Harmony 890 in the living room, but think another remote may be a better fit for the "new" family room.

Thanks again.

 

[10010011]

I am sure this is considered herracy around here but...

I would get rid of the "activity based" universal remote and go back to a good old device based model.

Sure you might have to press a few more buttons to turn everything on at once but most people can figure that out just by looking at it.

Receiver's on but the TV's off?

Press TV then press POWER.

It always did kind of annoy me that you could not just do that with the activity based remote.

My wife could understand the device based model without ever being shown what buttons to press. But was totally lost on the activity based idea. She just would end up screaming "I just want to watch the F'n TV! Why does it have to be so difficult?"

 

[talmazor]

That's fine if the only devices you're controlling are your TV and cable box, but take a look at this:

To watch a DVD in my setup you need to:

1. Turn on the TV.
2. Change the input on the TV.
3. Turn on the Pre-amp
4. Turn on the AMP
5. Turn on the DVD player.
6. Turn on the video processor.

Now you have a problem, because your movie functions are controlled by your DVD player, but your volume is controlled by your Pre-AMP. So if you want to hit "PLAY" it would actually have to be "DVD" then "PLAY", and then if the volume is too high/low you hit "Pre-AMP" and "VOLUME UP/DOWN".

I can only imagine the conversation when I'm at a dinner party and the 14 year old sitter wants to watch TV

 

[talmazor]

Also, one thing to keep in mind, is that I can't see my components. The only thing in front of you when on the couch is the TV, everything else is hidden in the hall closet.

 

[Halon451]

I am sure this is considered herracy around here but...

I would get rid of the "activity based" universal remote and go back to a good old device based model.

Sure you might have to press a few more buttons to turn everything on at once but most people can figure that out just by looking at it.

Receiver's on but the TV's off?

Press TV then press POWER.

It always did kind of annoy me that you could not just do that with the activity based remote.

My wife could understand the device based model without ever being shown what buttons to press. But was totally lost on the activity based idea. She just would end up screaming "I just want to watch the F'n TV! Why does it have to be so difficult?"

Well, that's the luxury of having a customizable good universal remote - the idea isn't to obfuscate the process, but to make it simpler. A properly programmed remote will be far more dummy-proof than any combination of device based remotes scattered about the coffee table.

 

[Halon451]

That's fine if the only devices you're controlling are your TV and cable box, but take a look at this:

To watch a DVD in my setup you need to:

1. Turn on the TV.
2. Change the input on the TV.
3. Turn on the Pre-amp
4. Turn on the AMP
5. Turn on the DVD player.
6. Turn on the video processor.

Now you have a problem, because your movie functions are controlled by your DVD player, but your volume is controlled by your Pre-AMP. So if you want to hit "PLAY" it would actually have to be "DVD" then "PLAY", and then if the volume is too high/low you hit "Pre-AMP" and "VOLUME UP/DOWN".

I can only imagine the conversation when I'm at a dinner party and the 14 year old sitter wants to watch TV

Can you simply use a Volume Lock function for the Pre-Amp to mitigate this? I guess this would work if all external sources are being routed through the same path. At some point, you also have to consider your setup as a function of ease of operation. More than one way to skin a cat, so to speak you can achieve the results you want from your system by going a different route. It would take gaining a closer look at how you have everything hooked up though.

 

[EYEdROP0]

My remote is the stock one, and the only buttons I use are volume and power.

Works fine for me. lol.

 

[bandphan]

Id add RTI to the list to check out. In order for feèd back systems the components need to be RS232-485 compatible with Rf or wifi enabled hand helds.

 

[jcPanny]

Remote commands

Sometimes there is a work around. For example, I use the "PLAY" command to turn on my Oppo DVD player. I only use the ON/OFF command to turn the power OFF.

 

[Exit]

I bribe my kids to go over and change the A/V controls, but sometime I get stuck watching Cartoon Network.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Actually, what you want to find out is if there are discrete power on/off commands for your various devices.

Things like TVs often have discrete power controls. Companies like Sony are almost always on top of their game with this, while others, such as Panasonic are hit or miss at times.

The idea is that if you can get a remote that you can program the 'ON' button to go "TV Power ON, DVD power ON, Cable Power ON, etc." then everything goes on correctly regardless of what is or is not currently on.

Ditto for 'OFF'.

Yet, at the end of the day, this is exactly why I do use Crestron - but my house is a bit more far reaching with overall controlability, so it isn't something I typically recommend for a single room.

Things like a current sensor and video sync sensor aren't really cheap.

Yet, you could actually get something like a URC MX-850, a Crestron MC2W, a ST-VS, and a ST-CS for under about $700 via eBay. Which is to rich for many people's blood, but gives you full and complete RF control of your system.

Programming something like that is not straightforward unless you are fairly comfortable with programming languages.

 

[10010011]

I can only imagine the conversation when I'm at a dinner party and the 14 year old sitter wants to watch TV

I would tell the sitter to not use the HTS.

Well, that's the luxury of having a customizable good universal remote - the idea isn't to obfuscate the process, but to make it simpler. A properly programmed remote will be far more dummy-proof than any combination of device based remotes scattered about the coffee table.

Believe it or not my wife can deal with the remote pile better. At least she knows that if she picks up the DVD remote is it going to control the DVD player, and the receiver remote is going to control the receiver and all the buttons on the various remotes will do exactly what they say.

She never could tell if the Harmony remote was in the right "activity" and changing activity would launch it's macro and things would get out of sync. You could not easily put the Harmony in "TV" mode to just turn on the TV if it was out of sync when you started the "Watch DVD" activity. You had to step through a really poor "help" system, and my wife gets impatient because she just wants to watch a movie not answer a bunch of "help" questions, it just got ugly from there.

In reality we use our Tivo remote most of all because it also controls the TV. It is rare that we have the receiver on unless we are watching a DVD. Then we just use the DVD and Receiver remotes once we set the TV to DVD and mute it.

 

[tomd51]

User Education & Simplification...

The most straightforward and cost-effective solution would be a remote with discrete controls, basic user training for common users (I know, hard w/a 5 yr. old) and a single laminated page user guide (with pictures) for common uses (watch TV, watch DVD, play Wii, etc.) that can be easily read and interpreted (important point). Find your least tech-saavy person and test out the instructions on them so they're literally dummy-proof.

Even my 70+ yr. old, tech saavy-less in laws can figure out my setups with a simple step-by-step guide I've done up, so anything's possible. The tricky part is to get the users to only use the macros you've set up to execute functions, the sad truth of the 'human element'. If cost isn't a big issue, I'm sure you'll find solutions such as a Crestron system that will allow your remote to recognize whether a device is active or not. Question is then if it can determine whether an input has been correctly selected and other functions that are incorporated in the macro, bigger can of worms. If cost is a concern, the simplest solution will be providing those that commonly will use your system with very simple instructions on how to utilize it.

Several remotes and components provide for discrete codes, however as mentioned earlier, not all. This will help if you incorporate a decent remote (Harmony, URC, etc.) that have discrete codes, punch-through volume setting options and other features you want enabled. The URC RF30 is what I use in my main HT setup and this is simple to operate for my wife as well as anyone that I let touch the remote . The Harmony One is another good remote that helps with the 'dummy-proof' thing allowing users to use the 'help' function in the event something didn't go right during the macro execution. This, plus the GUI makes this much simpler to understand for your 'thick as mud' potential users...

 

[Epetrone]

Add a New button to the screen

On the harmony 880 that I have, and probably the 890, 1000, you could just program a new button on the screen that says "TV On" and code it to turn the tv on. This way you can say "did you press the TV ON button?". My wife is pretty much out of the loop when it comes to home theater and I have to say a properly set up harmony is hard to beat for the price. I havent gotten one of those calls in at least 8 months now!!!