Considering upgrading my pre/pro from a refurbished 805. Experts please help.

[jostenmeat]

Budget can be upwards of 1k, but of course I'd rather spend less (which limits me to a receiver, if there was one that actually fit the bill).

I like my 805. However, I just learned that it elevates black levels when using 24p. Otherwise, this thing is a real HT bundle for the money. So, I am mulling over the upgrade idea after a whole 8 months. My wants:

1) Leaves 24p signal untouched. Sure, I'd prefer if all types 60p, 60i, etc, were untouched, but I watch at 24p probably +90% of the time, and so if I get only one, that's that the one I want. (My PJ deinterlaces fine enough AFAIK, for the extremely rare case I feed an interlaced signal).

2) I would also love to have the "flat" version of Audyssey more easily accessible, and able to be set as default. I don't want to fiddle with the menu every time to select something other than the Audyssey curve. (Very decently treated room). I desire XT version at the minimum (Pro is a definite bonus), unless someone can convince me that Trinnov should be its equal, or near it. (Wondering about Outlaw for this very reason). Or MCAAC. Or YPAO. Or whatever.

3) Must be able to matrix bitstreams of HD codecs.

4) Flexible bass mgmt (not just one universal x-over point selectable).

5) 12v trigger that actually works in Zone 1. (this is just icing, not a deal breaker).

Things that I don't really need:
-excellent VP, or any VP at all for that matter
-number of HDMI inputs is of little concern. Just BD + HD-DVD so far
-zones don't matter at all
-my amp doesn't have balanced inputs... but it would be cool if it did.

I'm about to start researching Integra 9.8/9.9 (which might not even fit the bill), but obviously I don't mind using a receiver if it saves me a lot, and the above desires could be met. Obviously, a receiver must have preouts. Does the Denon 2808 fit my needs? Or 2809 (gettin to pre/pro prices already). Info on untouched 24p is a big deal. Please be sure when advising, as hard as that might be.

I suppose waiting for Outlaw and Rotel could be the prudent move? Afraid of the latters' cost. Then I'll have to wait some more for all of your consumer reviews to start flowing in . . .

I know that #4 knocks out most Yamahas. I know that #5 knocks out most Onkyos. But, if you think one of those is still my best fit, please share your 2 cents. Thanks for considering my long post.

 

[MidnightSensi]

I have the Onkyo Pro preamplifier (and I use pro amps for power just because thats what I have around).....

I think it's a pretty good solution, a bit over your budget though....

 

[jostenmeat]

I have the Onkyo Pro preamplifier (and I use pro amps for power just because thats what I have around).....

I think it's a pretty good solution, a bit over your budget though....

New version, or older? It fits all my requests? Flat curve can be set as default? Do you by any chance know how much the Pro cal costs? I've located someone near me that I can trust at another forum if I ever wanted to...

you are positive that 24p is left untouched?

9.8 is around 1.2k off the classifieds at this point. For those that are flipping them for the 9.9 . . .

come to think of it Davemcc, adk highlander, and rmk own these I believe . . . maybe they'll notice my thread.

 

[MidnightSensi]

I have the PR-SC885P, they came out with the 6 and I looked at upgrading but couldn't see any reason why.. the 885 only cost me 1200 and this new one is like 1900 from the same dealer. It has some new fancy video calibration stuff. Not sure about the professional calibration.... I'm not really that serious haha.

I'm not positive that the 24p is untouched. But, I honestly don't even know how to find out. Maybe e-mail them?

It's a pretty functional unit that I think will last me a while. It's also nice to just be able to screw it into my rack instead of having to buy a shelf and faceplate. I hate filling out those forms, faxing them, etc.

 

[jostenmeat]

I have the PR-SC885P, they came out with the 6 and I looked at upgrading but couldn't see any reason why.. the 885 only cost me 1200 and this new one is like 1900 from the same dealer. It has some new fancy video calibration stuff. Not sure about the professional calibration.... I'm not really that serious haha.

Do you happen to know if the flat curve can be set as default?

I'm not positive that the 24p is untouched. But, I honestly don't even know how to find out. Maybe e-mail them?

I've found the best way to really know is to ask other enthusiasts.

I'll keep diggin'. Thanks for your recommendation, even if you don't know if it fits my needs.

 

[MidnightSensi]

You can turn the Audyssey off, is that what you mean by flat?

I have my Audyssey on though, and find it to be pretty helpful. Don't listen to people using "better" microphones... you want to use the one they provide because it is calibrated to the software.

 

[jostenmeat]

You can turn the Audyssey off, is that what you mean by flat?

No, there are different curves available. Even Onkyo receivers have flat response or Audyssey's own curve available, after calibrating with XT. The latter is used for the typical room that is untreated, with a high end roll-off (due to reflections galore in the typical room). The thing is my HT is very well treated. I've got RT HF Mondos, Minis, GIK 244s, and 242s, rugs on top of carpet, curtain along sides, etc.

The problem is I have to fiddle with menu each time I fire up HT to access flat. It would be extremely convenient if I didn't have to.

Even NAD has employed Paul Barton (of PSB fame) to design his own curves to re-introduce room gain I believe. Whether or not I would like that, Im not sure, but it doesn't matter for the NAD pre's don't fit the bill for me anyways. Honestly, my guess is that's more for music anyways. This is a 100% HT application.

OTOH, I believe employing certain THX modes may over-ride flat curves, and introduce upper end roll off, if perhaps not as much as the Audyssey stock curve, but this is where my knowledge starts to fade.

Perhaps chasing the flat curve is pointless, but for now it's what I want. I like that my ringing tones are tamed, but I find that its too rolled off with the Audyssey curve.

Does that explain the situation any better?

edit: oh there's a front curve as well, but I forgot about that, since Onkyo receivers don't carry that one. So many curves!
edit #2: I think I might be wrong about THX modes. If they OTOH employ flat mode automatically, I guess I'm golden. But I don't think so??

where's rmk?

 

[MidnightSensi]

I have a friend who does a lot of theater installs, I put a call into him for you. I'm curious too.

You can always boost your highs if it is too rolled off for you.

rmk is probably jamming with his subwoofer if it came.

 

[jostenmeat]

I have a friend who does a lot of theater installs, I put a call into him for you. I'm curious too.

Cool. However, prereq #1 is the most important to me, ATM. We will see.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Cool. However, prereq #1 is the most important to me, ATM. We will see.

Yeah, I'm going to see if he knows that too.

 

[rmk]

I have a friend who does a lot of theater installs, I put a call into him for you. I'm curious too.

You can always boost your highs if it is too rolled off for you.

rmk is probably jamming with his subwoofer if it came.

Actually, I was jamming it into the back of the Explorer.

Not much help here as I have never played with anything other than the standard Audyssey curve and currently have Audyssey off. Like you Jostenmeat, I have the room fairly heavily treated and I have found Audyssey deadens the sound.

Also, I am only using HDMI (4 in, and 2 out) and bypassing the Reon Video processing so other than the dual HDMI outs and the HD Audio codecs the Integra isn't doing much and I like it that way.

 

[adk highlander]

josten,

I also have the 885 and the reon does mess with both the color spaces and if you use imediate display on (OSD volume) it can/will effect black levels.

I am fairly sure it will pass 24fps untouched in passthrough mode and I know it does not clip the whiter than white and blacker than black signals that the Yamahas and Sony's do.

There is an extensive thread over at AVS for both the 9.8 and the 885 which discusses what the firware upgrades have done as well as other users issues with color space.

I personally have never had a complaint or issue with this processor. I am not using 24fps and do use the REON for scaling all my SD sources and I feel it does a very good job for that.

 

[jostenmeat]

Actually, I was jamming it into the back of the Explorer.

Wowsers!

Not much help here as I have never played with anything other than the standard Audyssey curve and currently have Audyssey off. Like you Jostenmeat, I have the room fairly heavily treated and I have found Audyssey deadens the sound.

If the 9.8 is anything like the 705/805 might* be, try selecting a THX mode, and hitting Re EQ. I'm just starting to play with that, and I think it might just be the better balance, though I can't say for sure (not doing DBT's, level controlled with the same track ). Well, that's a "cheat" to get to flat curve, but you have to do it every time you fire up receiver, AFAIK so far. Of course, we are talking about very different models here so I'm not sure if it works for you...

Also, I am only using HDMI (4 in, and 2 out) and bypassing the Reon Video processing so other than the dual HDMI outs and the HD Audio codecs the Integra isn't doing much and I like it that way.

Thanks for your input. I know you don't think you are helping me much, but your input is actually quite appreciated.

josten,

I also have the 885 and the reon does mess with both the color spaces and if you use imediate display on (OSD volume) it can/will effect black levels.

This I knew, but yeah my issue is different here.

I am fairly sure it will pass 24fps untouched in passthrough mode and I know it does not clip the whiter than white and blacker than black signals that the Yamahas and Sony's do.

If you ever learn of something more definitive, please pm me. I'd greatly appreciate it.

There is an extensive thread over at AVS for both the 9.8 and the 885 which discusses what the firware upgrades have done as well as other users issues with color space.

I'll get around to wearing out the search function later this weekend, or next week.

I personally have never had a complaint or issue with this processor. I am not using 24fps and do use the REON for scaling all my SD sources and I feel it does a very good job for that.

Cool. Our needs are opposite here, but I'm glad its a great fit for you.

I think I may just hang on to the 805 for a while. Man, too much stuff for people to know. Amazing. Only enthusiasts like us have a chance in hell to know the ins and outs of all this crap.... and even then!

 

[bandphan]

id hold off till the end of the year... new introductions and more test info on some that were just relesed... also have you considered getting audyssey as a stand alone product?

 

[WmAx]

Budget can be upwards of 1k, but of course I'd rather spend less (which limits me to a receiver, if there was one that actually fit the bill).

I like my 805. However, I just learned that it elevates black levels when using 24p. Otherwise, this thing is a real HT bundle for the money. So, I am mulling over the upgrade idea after a whole 8 months. My wants:

1) Leaves 24p signal untouched. Sure, I'd prefer if all types 60p, 60i, etc, were untouched, but I watch at 24p probably +90% of the time, and so if I get only one, that's that the one I want. (My PJ deinterlaces fine enough AFAIK, for the extremely rare case I feed an interlaced signal).

2) I would also love to have the "flat" version of Audyssey more easily accessible, and able to be set as default. I don't want to fiddle with the menu every time to select something other than the Audyssey curve. (Very decently treated room). I desire XT version at the minimum (Pro is a definite bonus), unless someone can convince me that Trinnov should be its equal, or near it. (Wondering about Outlaw for this very reason). Or MCAAC. Or YPAO. Or whatever.

3) Must be able to matrix bitstreams of HD codecs.

4) Flexible bass mgmt (not just one universal x-over point selectable).

5) 12v trigger that actually works in Zone 1. (this is just icing, not a deal breaker).

Things that I don't really need:
-excellent VP, or any VP at all for that matter
-number of HDMI inputs is of little concern. Just BD + HD-DVD so far
-zones don't matter at all
-my amp doesn't have balanced inputs... but it would be cool if it did.

I'm about to start researching Integra 9.8/9.9 (which might not even fit the bill), but obviously I don't mind using a receiver if it saves me a lot, and the above desires could be met. Obviously, a receiver must have preouts. Does the Denon 2808 fit my needs? Or 2809 (gettin to pre/pro prices already). Info on untouched 24p is a big deal. Please be sure when advising, as hard as that might be.

I suppose waiting for Outlaw and Rotel could be the prudent move? Afraid of the latters' cost. Then I'll have to wait some more for all of your consumer reviews to start flowing in . . .

I know that #4 knocks out most Yamahas. I know that #5 knocks out most Onkyos. But, if you think one of those is still my best fit, please share your 2 cents. Thanks for considering my long post.

Let's consider, if you really want the best integration possibilities for audio and the best audio adjustments, keep the 805 and use it as a pre-amp, if you can deal with it's video handling characteristics. Feed a couple of daisy-chained Behringer DCX2496 DSP controllers and feed outboard balanced amplifiers with variable gain input dials[see notes below] such as the Yamaha P**00S series. No receiver can begin to match the power/versatility of these powerful professional dedicated audio DSP processors. In addition, no receiver will provide the power of these dedicated outboard amplifiers.

-Chris

Notes
I have learned that in order to get a low noise floor with an external controller like the DCX2496, you need to be able to adjust both the output gain on the controller and the input gain on the amplifier. Using a balanced input amplifier with wide open input gain(no variable adjust dials) is not optimal.

 

[jostenmeat]

id hold off till the end of the year... new introductions and more test info on some that were just relesed... also have you considered getting audyssey as a stand alone product?

Good advice. I haven't considered the SEQ, but I remember it was roughly 2k last I checked. Yikes. And come to think of it, I don't think I'd spend that much towards EQ of any sort for the HT. My music stereo rig . . . Maybe, but even then it seems like overkill.

Another thing that makes me hesitant with SEQ, or Pro for that matter, is that I'm always doing little tweaks here and there. My gear is still relatively new to me. I guess I would have to be 100% sure that I'm not touching anything for a while before I pay for any calibration. I better stick with XT I guess.

Let's consider, if you really want the best integration possibilities for audio and the best audio adjustments, keep the 805 and use it as a pre-amp, if you can deal with it's video handling characteristics. Feed a couple of daisy-chained Behringer DCX2496 DSP controllers and feed outboard balanced amplifiers with variable gain input dials[see notes below] such as the Yamaha P**00S series. No receiver can begin to match the power/versatility of these powerful professional dedicated audio DSP processors. In addition, no receiver will provide the power of these dedicated outboard amplifiers.

-Chris

Notes
I have learned that in order to get a low noise floor with an external controller like the DCX2496, you need to be able to adjust both the output gain on the controller and the input gain on the amplifier. Using a balanced input amplifier with wide open input gain(no variable adjust dials) is not optimal.

Well, firstly, my video pre-requisite was listed as #1 for a reason. I am quite happy with the noise floor, which is not ultra quiet, but I am not going to do a HVAC rehaul, and I love my PJ even if it raises the noise floor.

Chris, what are your thoughts on Audyssey's strengths? How easily can someone like me find ringing tones/overhanging frequencies, and adjust accordingly, with 8 seated positions in mind? I suppose the DSP in addition to Audyssey could work quite well in combination.

Again, however, it wasn't that I was requesting better EQ abilities, I was requesting more convenient default settings for different Audyssey curves. I suppose with some daisy chained DSPs, I can "undo" the roll off of any curve I was using. But that seems a little backwards to me, JMO.

And those Behringers are ugly IMO. Id have to unload my entire rack, add some more shelves, to fit them in. And my good friend would be pretty disappointed if I bought any Behringer product. He was a sound guy for Yamaha for many years, teaching others to use their $100k sound boards, and is now working for Roland. He says Behringer simply rips off other companies' techs and provides them as much cheaper. They will anticipate the ensuing lawsuits for patent infringement, because they know they will make profit even after all of the penalties have been paid off. He's told me its common practice for them.

So they get around it all legally, but they're not really a company to be looked up to, depending on your philosophy.

My amplifier is a refurbed NAD T-973. No idea on how it compares to the Yams, but its more than enough for me at this point.