Here we go: Hsu, SVS, Outlaw......

[Affejunge]

Bottom line: I could have spent a lot more money on other subs out there but this one is perfect for me until I can get a dedicated HT. Another note is that the down firing design is nice so kids/pets dont mess with the driver.

With a 3 yo son who likes to stress test the woofer to see how far it can be pushed in... Down firing does seem to be the way to go!

 

[Gimpy Ric]

With a 3 yo son who likes to stress test the woofer to see how far it can be pushed in... Down firing does seem to be the way to go!

If the VTF-2 MK III is side firing like I think it is, the grill is tightly fit and a three year olds fingers would have trouble getting it off .

 

[j_garcia]

Hmmm... I do want the deep extension (subsonic) but I don't need my fillings to rattle (ie does not need crazy SPL) I would love to feel the cracks of the stone in the Kazah Dum Bridge in LOTR - FOTR and not feel completely overwhemed with headache inducing booming bass (like I have now with my JBLs). Music is most important to me... so I am leaning toward Hsu/Outlaw

I was never disappointed with the music capabilities of the PB-10 It was impressive with movies, but I had a very large room that was just too big for it so I upgraded. SVS also has their smaller, sealed sub, the SB-12 Plus which should be more than adequate for music and movies both, and has a smaller footprint than a PB-10.

The current VTF-2 is a 12" vs the 10" that I had, so it should have better extension and should get you where you want to be, plus you have the added benefit of being able to choose the alignment that works better for you - max extension or max output. VTF = Variable Tuning Frequency, meaning you have tuning options with it. The Outlaws are essentially STF-like subs, or Single Tuning Frequency.

 

[speakerman39]

Okay, I have done the searches, I have contacted the manufacturers, I have scoured the forums...I have narrowed it down.

I am looking for a < $600 sub to replace my JBL E250P. Now, before you laugh about my current sub, let me tell you I think it is "okay". That is, it puts the bass out and I did not pay a lot for it. What I do not like is that it seems "boomy" around 60-80Hz (which sucks for music) and for HT seems "sloppy" (is that a description?) Plus is make a LOUD "chirp" when it comes out from standby.

My replacement choices(In order I am leaning):

1. Hsu VTF-2 Mk III
2. Outlaw LFM-1 Plus
3. SVS PB12-NSD

Now I am NOT a bass-head (I mostly listen to classical with some 80s electronic (DM forever!)) And it is key for my HT setup as I would like to *feel* some of the bass (ie below 20 Hz).
Setup:
Yamaha RX-V663
Oppo DV-980H
4 x Axiom M22 v2
1 x Axiom VP150 v2

My sound anal-ness is about 70/30; music/HT. The room it will be in is about 1150cu.ft. with one side open to my dining room.
ALL of the manufacturers have responded almost exactly the same:
"Though the other subs you have mentioned (pick 2 of the above) are quality subs, ours (the other one) is more musical with a totally flat response. This will best suit your needs."

At least they all respect each other.


So Audioholics studs...esp those who have heard all the above...where do I go?

Thanks!!!

PS. I have a line on a VTF-2 Mk II. How does that stack against the Mk III?

Well, given that I have owned a SVS PB10-NSD and then upgraded to the PB12-NSD I would chime in. One thing I will say right now is that the PB10 is just spectacular, but the PB12 will do everything the PB10 does but you just get "more" of it. From there, I later upgraded to the Hsu VTF3.3. There was little doubt that it was better musically speaking than both the PB10 and the PB12 respectively. Please keep in mind, that I always ran the VTF3.3 in MAX output mode which means no ports plugged.

Currently, I now own (2) LFM-1Pluses and am very happy. It is very hard to do a comparison since I now reside in a new home. Also, my dedicated ht room is much much smaller. In other words, it would really not be a fair comparison. But, I will say that my favorite sub overall would have to be the VTF-3.3. It is also worth noting that the PB12-NSD would have to be my favorite when watching a movie. Lastly, I think any of the subs you listed would perform quite well. My vote is to go for the one you get a better deal on. Hope this helps and good luck in your decision.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[audion3wb]

The Outlaws are essentially STF-like subs, or Single Tuning Frequency.

Actually the LFM-1 Plus and LFM-1 EX from Outlaw are dual tuning subwoofers. They come with a port plug and have a max extension/output switch on the back. Max output is 25 HZ tuning and Max extension is 18hz on the LFM-1 Plus and is 16/22hz for the EX. The in room response on my EX has good usable bass down to 15hz in max extension.

 

[mazersteven]

Music is most important to me... so I am leaning toward Hsu/Outlaw

Well I'm listening to Diana Krall - Live in Paris right now. I have a SVS PB12-Plus/2. Yes this subwoofer is an absolute monster with HT. But it's also controlled, accurate, with music. All kinds of music. I'm sure when the right measurements are done, in the right environment. That there is a difference between one sub, and another. But how much, and can it be heard under blind testing is another.

IMO a quality subwoofer, is a quality subwoofer.

 

[Affejunge]

All of you have been awesome in your responses! Thank you!

Looks like it really is a toss up. If I go new, I will get the best deal on the Outlaw. Even though Hsu offers a military discount, I get killed with tax.

Hmmmm...what to do? So, to make me all warm and fuzzy, there will be a noticeable difference over my JBL E250P? And I am not talking minutia here. I mean a difference my wife "why can't it just go through the TV speakers" will notice?

Thanks.

 

[randy98ss]

I just received a pair of Outlaws LFM-1 EX's last week, I hooked them up stock, no tuning or placement experiements yet, and they sound great. I cant compare them to the other brands mentioned, but they are 10 times better then the ones I was using, see signature.

Like you, I was told countless times that you cant go wrong with the decision, so I decided to go with the best deal. At the time, Outlaw had an email specail, that was buy one get half off the other. So, I jumped on it and bought a pair. It might be worth siging up and maybe calling them if they will be doing that again soon.

 

[j_garcia]

Actually the LFM-1 Plus and LFM-1 EX from Outlaw are dual tuning subwoofers. They come with a port plug and have a max extension/output switch on the back. Max output is 25 HZ tuning and Max extension is 18hz on the LFM-1 Plus and is 16/22hz for the EX. The in room response on my EX has good usable bass down to 15hz in max extension.

I didn't realize they had the variable tune models there also.

 

[itschris]

I've been reading this with great interest. I kinda need to quickly hijack since there's a lot of good info in here already. It seems the newer setups all comprise of people using two subs instead of one. I never bought into the omnidirectional thing and I could always "sense" where the stub was. I have the DefTech 7002's and I like the way the bass is evenly distributed throughout the soundfield. I'm still thinking about adding subs to my system and I've been leaning towards the HSU VTF-2 MK 3. I'm just wondering though if I'm still better off getting two HSU's VTF-1 and have dual subs.

 

[Affejunge]

Well, I gave my input on one way to decide if your sub really is the issue. Seems like you want a new one - which makes all of us happy.

I'll throw in my two cents on companies. I haven't dealt with Hsu or Outlaw, but I've heard good things. I own an SVS, and I was floored by their customer service. Absolutely outstanding.

SVS responded to my e-mail from yesterday, and, wow, what a complete response. They specifically answered my questions, even went into detail as to why their subs are better than my JBL (haha). Most importantly, they offer a military discount *and* talked me into getting the PB10. This will save me A LOT of money. The room I have now is small and for my next tour I could end up Japan. Small rooms there too. So I should be set for the next 4-6 years...

Now, to sell my JBL 5.1 setup (2 x HLS-615, HLS-Center, 2x E20s, E250P sub) to raise the cash for my sub. Unless Outlaw has a sale between now and then, looks like am getting the SVS PB-10.

Thanks again all.

 

[billy p]

SVS responded to my e-mail from yesterday, and, wow, what a complete response. They specifically answered my questions, even went into detail as to why their subs are better than my JBL (haha). Most importantly, they offer a military discount *and* talked me into getting the PB10. This will save me A LOT of money. The room I have now is small and for my next tour I could end up Japan. Small rooms there too. So I should be set for the next 4-6 years...

Now, to sell my JBL 5.1 setup (2 x HLS-615, HLS-Center, 2x E20s, E250P sub) to raise the cash for my sub. Unless Outlaw has a sale between now and then, looks like am getting the SVS PB-10.

Thanks again all.

You won't be sorry!!

 

[speakerman39]

SVS responded to my e-mail from yesterday, and, wow, what a complete response. They specifically answered my questions, even went into detail as to why their subs are better than my JBL (haha). Most importantly, they offer a military discount *and* talked me into getting the PB10. This will save me A LOT of money. The room I have now is small and for my next tour I could end up Japan. Small rooms there too. So I should be set for the next 4-6 years...

Now, to sell my JBL 5.1 setup (2 x HLS-615, HLS-Center, 2x E20s, E250P sub) to raise the cash for my sub. Unless Outlaw has a sale between now and then, looks like am getting the SVS PB-10.

Thanks again all.

This is great news as you made a decsion. Congrats on your choice! One thing I will let you know is that quite often I had to remind myself that the PB10-NSD was only a 10" sub. It sure never sounded like one to me. As such, I am sure you will be impressed. Be sure to let us know what your intial impressions are.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[mazersteven]

SVS responded to my e-mail from yesterday, and, wow, what a complete response. They specifically answered my questions, even went into detail as to why their subs are better than my JBL (haha). Most importantly, they offer a military discount *and* talked me into getting the PB10. This will save me A LOT of money. The room I have now is small and for my next tour I could end up Japan. Small rooms there too. So I should be set for the next 4-6 years...

Now, to sell my JBL 5.1 setup (2 x HLS-615, HLS-Center, 2x E20s, E250P sub) to raise the cash for my sub. Unless Outlaw has a sale between now and then, looks like am getting the SVS PB-10.

Thanks again all.

In one sentence it's "wow" about SVS. How they went into detail, and saved you money. But you'd still consider Outlaw for a few dollars in savings.

 

[Affejunge]

In one sentence it's "wow" about SVS. How they went into detail, and saved you money. But you'd still consider Outlaw for a few dollars in savings.

It's not that I am ungrateful! Just I would like a down firing sub to keep prying toddler fingers away and I like that the Outlaw has the port plug for deeper extension. So yeah, if Outlaw dropped their price $150, I would have to consider them. That said, I am sure it is not going to happen. So as soon as I sell my JBL gear, I will order the SVS.

BTW, anyone local to No. Cal. who wants to buy a pretty good entry-level JBL 5.1 set up?!

 

[jliedeka]

You are getting a great sub. I like my Hsu but it was a close call between it and something from SVS.

Jim

 

[j_garcia]

Well, there's always the SVS 25-31PCi which is a down firing sub The port plug doesn't make it go deeper than the SVS, it makes them the same. It has already been said though, any of these subs will treat you well.

 

[billy p]

In one sentence it's "wow" about SVS. How they went into detail, and saved you money. But you'd still consider Outlaw for a few dollars in savings.

I have spoken to Jennifer( I think her name was)@ Outlaw regarding shipping and taxes and althought she was very nice, IMO they aren't SVS.

Heh.. sounds like I'm plugging svs.

 

[MUDSHARK]

I have Outlaw and bought my son SVS for Christmas last year. I wouldn't want to live on the difference.