OK, I'm an idiot, or so I am told!! First post here.

R

rsd22

Audioholic Intern
I’m the guy with a 9 year old Technics receiver paired with the very first version of the Bose Accoustimass speaker system – AND…….thinks my house rocks when I turn it all on.

I’m the guy who thought that my Accoustimass module was a subwoofer for the last 9 years. I assumed the lack of bass was the best it could be. I mean I spent $1,000 on ‘high-end’ speakers years ago.

I’m the guy who thinks ‘Burr-Brown’ is the color of my Technics receiver.

I’m the guy who had a neighbor’s dog walk into my living room, lift his leg, and pee square into the hole in my accoustimass module and now blame the sound from my speakers to that dog.

Yeah, I’m that guy. And I need your help.

5 years ago, I started saving cash to upgrade my home theater. $2 a day was dumped into a large box and on really good days, I’d drop in a $10 or a $20. 2 years ago, and $8,000+ in my pocket, I bought a Samsung Plasma 720p and hooked up my Technics and Bose system, sat back and thought I was living life large.

Time for a new receiver and speakers. I stumbled upon Audioholics and the world of reviews & forums & researched until my body went limp from exhaustion. You folks helped me decide on the Yamaha RX-V659. I didn’t need HDMI out since I have 2 on my TV, this was going to be my choice. Or so I thought.

Even though I still had an additional $6,000 to spend, why spend it all on a receiver. I wouldn’t be able to tell the difference anyway, or would I? I mean do I spend $500, $1,000 or $2,000 on a receiver? All of the reviews on the Yamaha 659 said the unit was excellent so why pay $1,000 more on the unknown?

Time went on, I never bought anything and then I went to Best Buy Magnolia and after listening to the sounds in Magnolia, told myself, it was time to drop the remaining $6K. The Yamaha 663 was out with good reviews, so this will be going home with me. But wait.

I’m being told that I’ll be sorry if I buy a receiver with 2 HDMI ins. So more research. Denon looks nice but I hear they are difficult to work with. Something I don’t need. Onkyo runs hot and since the receiver will go in an enclosed area – no go. And then I hear about the 1018 Yamaha, Pioneer Elites, and now the SC-05/07......etc etc etc.

So I went to Best Buy in Willow Grove, PA with my 12% off coupon to ask someone to educate me on receivers, and speakers. Well, I’d have been better off going back to elementary school than ask for help at this Best Buy. Oh I'm sure other Best Buys are excellent -- just not this location.

I went to the store with ripped jeans, a baseball hat and a wad of money to spend. Trouble was I couldn’t find a single employee to talk too. In fact I couldn’t find anyone to help, at least in the AV department. Not just once, but two different times with absolutely NO SERVICE whatsoever. I should have asked for the Manager, but I didn't.

So I went to my local Tweeter last week (Bel Air, MD). The salesmen clearly looked like he didn’t have time for me. Trouble was, there was nobody else in the store -- no customers but me. Maybe it was the way I was dressed and he thought I lived in a tent, maybe he has people walk in all day, take all his time and walk across the street to Best Buy and buy from them. Who knows? It was clear I was disturbing him.

I’d have paid a premium price for the right receiver & killer speakers from Tweeter if I received the education that I needed to make the right decision. I had questions. Yamaha vs. Denon vs. Pioneer? He seemed uninterested and said, “Yamaha is good, and Pioneer is solid” but didn’t elaborate. He suggested I buy the Elite 91thx as this was on sale and far better than the RX-663. That was it.

I’ll try again. I said, “Sir, if you have $6,400 in your pocket and could buy a new receiver & speakers – what would your top choices be, and why?” His reply?

I’d spend $5K on the receiver and save up for quality Polk speakers down the road. That was it. You’re kidding me!! There wasn’t ONE other person in his store.

I left with my cash in hand. As I was walking out I stopped and looked at a Sony Blu Ray on sale. The salesman picked up his phone and I heard him say, “No. It’s not busy. Just some fool wanting information so he can buy elsewhere.......”

Ok….. I’m 50, no kid. I could have walked -- I didn’t. I walked up to the cash warp in the middle of the store, reached into my pocket and pulled out a stack of $100 bills, slapped them on the counter and said, “Who’s the idiot now?”

Best Buy (at least the one I was in) was no help, and why should I expect them to be any time soon. Tweeter is of no help. I don’t do credit cards, only cash, so I’m not going to Crutchfield or anywhere else. I’m on my own to buy locally.

So I turn to the folks that first turned me onto the world of audio education. Albeit, in about 20 different directions, but educate me you did.

If you had $6,000 in your pocket and wanted a new receiver, nice floor standing speakers (surround sound), and a fancy Blu Ray – what would it look like, and why?

One last thing: I was considering the Def Tech 1000’s until I added in the cost of speaker stands and said why not consider floor standing models. But now I see that some floor standing modles have a sub and some don’t. Evertyhing is going into my finished basement.

Thanks...
 
J

jamie2112

Banned
Welcome to the forum Break down of your budget
I would say speakers=$4000
Receiver = 1000 or less
Subwoofer= 1000
There are many choices in your price range for speakers. I would break down your budget like that and listen to as many speakers as you can. I am in Annapolis Md and there are quite a few places to listen to speakers in our area. Feel free to PM me when you get enough posts and we can go from there.:D
 
J

jamie2112

Banned
The guy who said he would spend 5000 on a receiver is a TOOL he has no buisness selling audio gear...
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Welcome to the forum!

For receivers, I would recommend along the lines of what you've mentioned: Yamaha 663, Pioneer 1018 (also consider the step up, the Pioneer Elite VSX-01TXH), and the Onkyo 606. It really depends on what features you want. You can always look at the models above those if they don't have everything that you want. I wouldn't spend money on video processing in a receiver, and like Jamie said - you sure don't need to spend $5k on a receiver. You can, but you don't need to.

Don't underestimate a good sub (or two). Save some money for that, for sure.

Do you bank somewhere? If so, I'd think that they could get you either a debit card (not a credit card) or a prepaid credit card (so, it's only good for how much you put on it). That way, you could easily buy online. Also, many online places will accept checks. I mention this because buying online opens up some possibilities - like the SVS system that Mazer suggested. I have an SVS sub and love it.

Anyway, sorry for your shopping experience. I hope that we can help you find some good stuff for your system.

Adam
 
R

rsd22

Audioholic Intern
So I'm watching the Jets/Pats game and at halftime, decide to check my post and lo and behold -- I had replies!!! Thats pretty cool since I wasn't sure what, if anything, I would get back in the form of a reply. I appreciate the input. Thats as sincere as possible.

I'm still trying to figure out how to reply to specifics posts/if I'm to thank everyone with the thank you button, etc-- but I'll get the hang of all this.

Mazer: What is a boutique store? Tweeter?
 
J

jamie2112

Banned
There are a few good stereo shops in and around the Baltimore area you could check out...I agree with Mazer stay away from the Big budget stores....:eek:
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
rsd22, Your post is one of my favorite first-time posts ever. Right up there with the " . . . or, how I Iearned to love the search function" post.

I bought a lot of my stuff in cash as well.

As one possible method to get some respect when you walk into store, don't even ask. Go straight to the toys that interest you, pop in your best demo material, bust out your notepad and pen, start taking notes. At this point they will definitely ask where you've been shopping so far. If your demo material is good as mine, they will stop in their tracks, and take a seat alongside you. They will thank you for putting on something so nice to listen to. They will go, "Ahhh, this is why I wanted to be in this field to begin with . . .". Then they write down your demo selection, so that they can play it for other customers in hopes of greater sales.

As an off-the-cuff response, I told my friend I could build him an HT with $6k that will blow away the local theaters in every regard. That's including the front projector and screen. And cabling. Even an RF remote system. Even the rack. I just told him that last week. However, this is 100% HT. For critical music, I think the budget becomes more difficult. I find the resolution and clarity of my extensive classical music collection begs for better speakers and rooms. HT tracks just are not mastered to the same level, or anywhere close, IMO. The main concerns with HT, IMO, are dynamic abilities, and perhaps midbass response. Things like soundstage and imaging are surely a bonus, but I would for instance choose PSB Images over Ascend acoustics if only for what it appears to me as dynamic abilities and better mid-bass at similar price points in an HT-only setup. Even if I found the Ascends to image better and throw a wider soundstage. JMO. However, if all of this budget goes to speakers, I'm pretty sure you can have your cake and eat it too.

I'm familiar with the services of both BB and Tweeter (when they did exist here in CA). As well as the hi-fi stores. The best service you can possibly get is right here, at on-line forums just like these. My opinion is quite adamant.

So, it looks like you already have a display. However, if it isn't already, you can wall mount it, and have a screen that falls over it.

My breakdown, and I repeat this is off-the-cuff. This would represent my own personal needs however.

PJ $2.5k
Screen $300-1000. Let's take that avg and make it $650
Dual subs $1k, or slightly more.
5 speakers, $1k or slightly more
Cabling $100
URC remote $75
rack $200
receiver $500

Ok, so that's just barely over 6k. So shoot me. I'll repeat that this is HT-only. For my music stereo rig, my speakers cost a lot. A lot of people think that good music speakers = good HT speakers. In the best of all worlds, sure, but IMO one can select differently given any budget for either purpose.

The choice of receiver, IMO, is purely a function of any features you want. Even if I have a dedicated, multi-row theater with a 159" screen, with both Bluray and HD-DVD as my sources, my needs are very, very modest. I wanted ability to matrix HT hidef bitstreams for 7.1. Somewhat flexible bass mgmt is welcome, but not a deal breaker. Ability to pass 24 fps and have pre-outs. You can do the above with an entry Yamaha 663, even if mine is a refurbed Onkyo 805 ($499 last I heard, but sold out in a couple of days?).

If you have zero need for a different display, you can get some sick audio stuff with 6k. Wow. I'd personally budget for room treatments in this case. Just me.

How big is the room? Be specific with the dimensions, and please note if its a closed room, or open to dining areas, etc. How many couches, or seats, or viewers, over how wide of a span? How many feet is it from the primary viewing position to the display and/or front speakers?
 
J

jamie2112

Banned
Keep posting so you can PM. I have a couple of suggestions for you in B-more..
 
R

rsd22

Audioholic Intern
rsd22, Your post is one of my favorite first-time posts ever. Right up there with the " . . . or, how I Iearned to love the search function" post.

I bought a lot of my stuff in cash as well.

As one possible method to get some respect when you walk into store, don't even ask. Go straight to the toys that interest you, pop in your best demo material, bust out your notepad and pen, start taking notes. At this point they will definitely ask where you've been shopping so far. If your demo material is good as mine, they will stop in their tracks, and take a seat alongside you. They will thank you for putting on something so nice to listen to. They will go, "Ahhh, this is why I wanted to be in this field to begin with . . .". Then they write down your demo selection, so that they can play it for other customers in hopes of greater sales.

As an off-the-cuff response, I told my friend I could build him an HT with $6k that will blow away the local theaters in every regard. That's including the front projector and screen. And cabling. Even an RF remote system. Even the rack. I just told him that last week. However, this is 100% HT. For critical music, I think the budget becomes more difficult. I find the resolution and clarity of my extensive classical music collection begs for better speakers and rooms. HT tracks just are not mastered to the same level, or anywhere close, IMO. The main concerns with HT, IMO, are dynamic abilities, and perhaps midbass response. Things like soundstage and imaging are surely a bonus, but I would for instance choose PSB Images over Ascend acoustics if only for what it appears to me as dynamic abilities and better mid-bass at similar price points in an HT-only setup. Even if I found the Ascends to image better and throw a wider soundstage. JMO. However, if all of this budget goes to speakers, I'm pretty sure you can have your cake and eat it too.

I'm familiar with the services of both BB and Tweeter (when they did exist here in CA). As well as the hi-fi stores. The best service you can possibly get is right here, at on-line forums just like these. My opinion is quite adamant.

So, it looks like you already have a display. However, if it isn't already, you can wall mount it, and have a screen that falls over it.

My breakdown, and I repeat this is off-the-cuff. This would represent my own personal needs however.

PJ $2.5k
Screen $300-1000. Let's take that avg and make it $650
Dual subs $1k, or slightly more.
5 speakers, $1k or slightly more
Cabling $100
URC remote $75
rack $200
receiver $500

Ok, so that's just barely over 6k. So shoot me. I'll repeat that this is HT-only. For my music stereo rig, my speakers cost a lot. A lot of people think that good music speakers = good HT speakers. In the best of all worlds, sure, but IMO one can select differently given any budget for either purpose.

The choice of receiver, IMO, is purely a function of any features you want. Even if I have a dedicated, multi-row theater with a 159" screen, with both Bluray and HD-DVD as my sources, my needs are very, very modest. I wanted ability to matrix HT hidef bitstreams for 7.1. Somewhat flexible bass mgmt is welcome, but not a deal breaker. Ability to pass 24 fps and have pre-outs. You can do the above with an entry Yamaha 663, even if mine is a refurbed Onkyo 805 ($499 last I heard, but sold out in a couple of days?).

If you have zero need for a different display, you can get some sick audio stuff with 6k. Wow. I'd personally budget for room treatments in this case. Just me.

How big is the room? Be specific with the dimensions, and please note if its a closed room, or open to dining areas, etc. How many couches, or seats, or viewers, over how wide of a span? How many feet is it from the primary viewing position to the display and/or front speakers?
Yikes!! I have to admit -- you used quite a bit of abreviations that just flew right over my head. I had to google them to really appreciate your reply.

Room size is 22ft front to back. 35 ft in width. 14 feet from front of TV (seating area). This is the basement so I have a set of stairs (opening) leading to the first floor to the right of the TV. 1 large couch, 1 chair, TV is now on an entertainment center. Not sure what you meant when you said I could mount the TV and put up a screen. Also have workout equipment, and a large wood stove in this room. But here's where it gets tricky:

My job will probably relocate in the next year. I seem to move every 2 years. Our last home had a huge living room with vaulted ceilings. This one is much smaller. Who knows what I will have next year so I don't want to short myself with what I get (or don't get).
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
Room size is 22ft front to back. 35 ft in width. 14 feet from front of TV (seating area).
Your going to need a very good subwoofer to fill that volume of room, like the SVS Ultra I recommended in the SVS link.
 
R

rsd22

Audioholic Intern
Never searched on what THD means but is it better that the number be high like 0.09 or is lower better, such as 0.05?
 
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