Update on my design, and some driver pr0n!

[Spkr_Bldr]

Hey guys, I've had a couple PM's asking what's the latest of the design I'm working on. If the Mods deem this advertising, please delete ... but I'll try and make up for it with some killer driver porn!

First off let me say thanks to those who have shown interest. And I'll definately try and get some demo pairs out to Audioholics members! Hopefully we can arrage an offical review of one of the final versions.

The cabs are all CNC cut. There will be 3 models initially - low, middle, and high price. Only a few things are certain, the high-end will use a RAAL 70-20XR tweeter, the low-end will use a Hi-Vi D6.8 woofer, and the mid-range will use either an Usher 8945P or 8948A woofer. The rest is still being worked on. There will also at some point be other versions, MTM's with Scan 15W Revelators or Seas W16NX woofers ... a 2-way monitor with a Peerless 830884 8" woofer and a waveguide mounted Scan dome crossed around 900hz ... and probably an open baffle with the cab foming the base.

Attached are pictures of the cabs. The baffle is cut for the RAAL ribbon, and it and the top/bottom pieces show the contrained layer damping method I'm using. End result is these cabs are friggin dead, I can't wait to show with an accelerometer just how dead they are.

Most designers don't want to give this much detail, but I don't mind. I'm only looking to sell a few pairs a month, and give people the kind of value that simply isn't available right now. If the Mods will allow it, I can discuss more details and give ideas of pricing.

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

Then some drivers I'm testing and evaluating ...

Focal 6W4311B, Fountek JP 2.0, HiVi D6.8, RAAL 70-20XR, ScanSpeak 15W Revelator ... more if my attachment quota doesn't run out

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

Damn, only enough room for the Scan R29's. I had pics of Usher woofers, Seas Crescendo and 27TTFNC tweets to upload as well.

The point is I have a ton of drivers I'm evaluating for these designs. My investment has been large thus far, but I expect the results to be worth it!

 

[gus6464]

Damn that's a good looking cabinet. Do you know what will be the pricing the high end version with the raal ribbon and middle with the usher?

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

Damn that's a good looking cabinet. Do you know what will be the pricing the high end version with the raal ribbon and middle with the usher?

Thanks man, I'm really happy how it's turning out. The center channel matching cab is being cut right now ... as is one with a 155mm wide front baffle for MTM's with Scan 15W's and Seas W16's.

I'll wait for a Mod to say ok or not before I estimate any pricing. Just know that the RAAL's are $346 each, so the top end won't be cheap ... but I sure won't be going by the industry standard 5:1 pricing increase either, more like 1.5:1

BTW, for the mid-line I'm thinking of the 8948A and the new Tang Band Beryllium tweeter. The Tang tweeter I have, no pictures, but it tests amazingly well. It's as clean down to 1500hz as my Scan 6600 AirCirc's, and shows almost none of the ultrasonic breakup of normal metallic dome tweets. I'm just afraid Usher will cut me off if I sell a Tiny Dancer beater for 1/2 the price

 

[Djizasse]

What kind of finish will you apply. Veneer?
Do you have any "artist rendition" of a finished unit?

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

What kind of finish will you apply. Veneer?
Do you have any "artist rendition" of a finished unit?

Yea, veneers. I'll also do a version where it's sanded and poly'd over the ply to show the laminations, that version will have veneered endcaps.

My CAD guy was just asking last night if i wanted him to render the drawing. I told him not to worry about it since I almost have the real thing together

 

[jamie2112]

I cannot wait to see the finished product......

 

[rnatalli]

Looks dang good so far.

 

[kevin k.]

Hi Ryan,

Some very interesting projects you have there. I look forward to following their development.

I have some Air Circs, too, although I'm interested in the RAAL's as possible replacements. Would you be willing to talk with me a bit about your experiences with them? I'd greatly appreciate any time you could spare.

Thanks!

 

[Alex2507]

First off let me say thanks to those who have shown interest.

Just want to let you know that there are plenty of us who haven't shown an interest but are interested. I'll be more than happy to evaluate these for you.

 

[Rickster71]

Hi Spkr Bldr, looks great so far.
I missed this thread somehow, or I would've ask this sooner; Are you going to join us at the Audioholics show down in Disney World?
It'd be a great place for a demo. Even if you just set up in your room.

Rick

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

Thanks for bumping this up guys. I did some of my first crossover voicing with them over the weekend and today. I'll snap a few more pics tomorrow.

My first impressions are that the RAAL ribbon may be the best tweeter I've ever heard. It's detail and transparency are really unlike anything I've ever heard, and I've heard a lot. It's also incredibly easy to work with, and seems to just suck up power - never changing it's character no matter what the drive level. Right now the woofers I'm using are a pair of custom built Audio Technology C-Quenze 18H. They are of course incredible drivers, but I think I'll end up using the new ScanSpeak Illuminators in the final design.

There will be a version of this using an all MDF construction instead of Baltic Birch slices. Material costs for MDF is about 1/4 of ply, which means I'll be able to produce and sell that design for under $1000/pair ... I'm targeting something like $895.

The mid-range design will be a real sleeper. It will have a Beryllium tweeter and an Usher 8948A woofer with Baltic Ply construction. That's the same driver compliment as the $2800/pair Usher Tiny Dancer, but mine will have a better cabinet and only be about $1500/pair.

I'd love to go to the Audioholics show, but the format just isn't right for me. Any demo I'd do would be 2-channel only. That's why the RMAF is so perfect, each vendor gets their own room to setup a system, and the attendees are focused on 2-channel setups. If Orlando was close I'd go, but as is it would cost me probably $2000 for travel plus a week of time. That would be hard to justify without the type of format and visibility I can get at RMAF.

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

Some updates ...

I have the first pair up and running. It's using the RAAL ribbon tweeter and a Custom Audio Technology C-Quenze woofer. It's a vented design with .5cu/ft volume and a F3 of 42hz. We spent about 4 hours voicing them out with numerous crossover revisions, and compared them directly with Dynaudio Confidence C2's ($12,000/pair). The room and all gear used was top notch. In direct comparison my design simply excelled in transparency, imaging, detail, and driver integration. The C2 is an excellent speaker, but when compared it seems smeared in time vs my pair. Also the imaging with my pair is deep and wide even when well outside the sweet spot, this was one of the most surprising finds of the night, and a very pleasant one! Of course a single 7" driver bookshelf can't deliver the same bass extension and drive of a large tower with multiple woofers like the C2, but nobody would expect it to. It does what it does extremely well. Oh, and all this testing was with the crossovers connected with clip-leads and lying on the floor. I'm confident when finished, drivers broken in, and the last few ounces squeezed out of it, that it'll be one of the finest bookshelf speakers in the world.

Next up is the low-cost design. It'll be a sealed MTM using dual 6.5" woofers and a silk dome tweeter. Also the cabinet will be all MDF instead of Baltic Birch - the ply is 3x the cost of MDF, and doing it in MDF will allow a price point of under $1000/pair finished. This will be aimed at people who will also use them as HT speakers, and will have a matching MTM center and smaller (and cheaper) MT surround speakers. A whole 5 channel setup with these will likely be about $2200. I know there's a lot of competition at that point, but everything I build will be matched in pairs, built with premium crossover components that are hand point-to-point wired, and will have numerous real wood veneer finishes to choose from. And of course these sexy cabs

I think the cabinets are in large part responsible for the incredible transparency and imaging. The cabinet sounds like tapping on sheet aluminum, it's as dead as anything you can build from wood ... and the shape gives you what's essentially a 5" roundover, and my measurements have confirmed that it works to effectively eliminate diffraction.

 

[Warpdrv]

Awesome Ryan.... Nice to hear good news about your speakers coming together, Looking forward to some pics... The Dyn's are certainly amazing speakers, glad to hear they sound as good...

 

[kevin k.]

Great news, Ryan! I'm interested in your progress with the RAAL/Audio Technology speaker. Do you have any pictures of the speaker at this point in time? I've used C-Quenze drivers before with excellent results, but I have no experience with the RAAL ribbons. What was the impetus behind your choice of the 70-20XR? And, did you ever consider using, or even test perhaps, the 70-10D model?

Thanks!

 

[Hi Ho]

Those are some very interesting and impressive cabinets. I sure wish I had a CNC machine. My speakers are just boxes because of that fact.

By the way, if you want to post more photos in larger groups you might try uploading them to a site like Photobucket.

 

[R-Carpenter]

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=128394

I find myself that the speaker cabinet with very extensive bracing somehow has a much wider sound stage. It's a combination of factors and resonance transfers.
I am also assuming that slots on the sides were cut to be filled with sand?
I myself don't have a CNC and do this type of work old fashion way.
If you are in NY we could have a shootout. :...:
Nice work.

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

Hey guys, here's a shot from tonights voicing in room #2 ... which is a mess right now!

The baffles hang down because I was messing with cab volume, now that it's set the baffles will be trimmed flush obviously. Also the threaded rods will be trimmed flush and decorative nuts put on top, spike feet on bottom. The crossovers are the Vidsonik Virtual Crossover box, pretty nifty little item that makes voicing much quicker than clip-leaded together networks lying on the floor.

I went with the 70-20XR after talking extensively with Alex from RAAL. Since it's an OEM only product, and I'm under a NDA with RAAL, I don't want to say much about it specifically, but the 70-10 could work in this application as well. The 70-20 is a better fit for 2-ways though overall.

... I like flickr better than photobucket

 

[gus6464]

Those are some great looking speakers Ryan. All I can say is sign me up once you have any of the final speakers ready. I am looking to do a major upgrade to my 2ch system once we buy a new house in 2 years or so I will definitely be interested in your speakers with the RAAL ribbon.