Intelligent Design ruling

[Rickster71]

Like clockwork...

I can't believe that I didn't see that one coming!

If it wasn't for that one line, I'd have nothing to do.

 

[Adam]

If it wasn't for that one line, I'd have nothing to do.

Hee, hee! We all know that's not true, though.

 

[unreal.freak]

(Well, that and allowing religions to impose their morals on others by means of the law, eg outlawing gay marriage.)

Im really amused at the number of non religious people (homosexual or straight) who would use the term "Marriage". It is a term that most religions use for the joining of a man and a woman and is widely viewed to be a religious ceremony.

 

[unreal.freak]

Modern chimpanzee skull, chronologically arranged hominid fossil skulls, human skull.

Where's that "big gap"?

More information here.

The gap is between the stuff we used to be before we were primates and when we became primates. Dig me up some fossils of us as the thing that climbed out of the ocean, then a fossil of each form we took untill we became primates.

 

[Adam]

Wow, this thread got more attention than I thought it would.

Here's the back story for anyone wondering why in the living h-e-double-hockey-sticks this thread came back. Last Saturday, I happen to come across a thread that included posts from someone that had been banned. Curiosity got to me, so I looked up what got that person banned. Unrelated to the banning, I noticed a post about thetans. That got me more curious, so I did a search on that term and came across this thread. I then saw where Dave posted that the thread kept coming back. I couldn't help myself, so I brought it back again.

Now, there have been over 80 posts since then...some good, some of them not so polite. So let me just say: Sorry, Dave.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Without reading this entire thread, I will say this. If we're considered to be "Intelligently Designed" then God must have been drinking when he did so. God may exist, God may not, but one thing is clear. If God exists, God isn't all knowing by a long shot; or isn't as benevolent as people believe.

I wonder how this question of ID will be handled when another intelligent race of beings finally land on this planet, and, by chance look different from us, by a lot

 

[unreal.freak]

Oh, and the main problem with living a christian life is that it involves wasting a lot of time on pointless activities (such as church and prayer.) It also involves skipping some highly enjoyable activities because they are allegedly "sinful".

Can you be a little more specific on the highly enjoyable activities, cause what you may find highly enjoyable may not be the same for someone else.

also i dont know any religion that says you can be perfect and without sin. My beliefs are that all have come short.

I dont have any issue with the states not allowing the teaching of ID or creationism. On the same note, i dont think they should teach evolution either. they both are about the origins of mankind and nature.

 

[mtrycrafts]

evolution is only a theory.

What does that mean? Or, what do you mean by this?
By chance you are confusing a scientific theory with the general public's usage of that word to mean a guess? If so, you are wrong, totally. If not, a scientific theory is one step from being a scientific law.
I guess then, the Atomic Theory is just a theory, and all the other 1000s of scientific theories are just guesses then?

there seems to be a majority of people here who believe in it,

Believe? Why does it need a belief when the preponderance of evidence is overwhelming to accept it?

just like people believe in intelligent design.

No, not just like it since ID is not a scientific theory but a belief, driven by a particular faith.

just because a majority believe in something thought to be scientifically proven, doesn't mean its true.

Perhaps someone can disprove it? And I mean in a credible manner, not as some films, etc tried to do.

There are many cases of science disproving things that were formally thought to be scientific fact.

Yes, there are. But, that is how science works, unlike a belief engine that never corrects its false beliefs.

If evolution were the sole reason of all that we know, there would be fossils to prove the theory.

And you think this theory was just thrown up there to see it it sticks? Or, perhaps, based in EVIDENCE?

as it is now there is a big gap between the fossils being found, and where we are today. No fossils have been found to follow or support our evolution from whatever it is evolutionists believe we evolved from.

Actually, there are no missing links, just imagined by the ID folks as nothing will convince them otherwise, right?
And, just because not all the fossils have been found doesn't mean that the existing evidence is insufficient.
Most likely, no, actually all the fossils will never be found because of the living planet we live on has destroyed untold amounts of it in its ever changing form and movements. I guess we are lucky we have what we have found because of some of those changes and movements that revealed those fossils.

I sincerely hope that it be beneficial to read about or visit a natural museum such as the Smithsonian in DC, or watch some of the better History channel programs on geology and planetary discoveries.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Modern chimpanzee skull, chronologically arranged hominid fossil skulls, human skull.

Where's that "big gap"?

More information here.

Thanks.
I think he wants to see every one that ever existed, neatly arranged by date
I doubt anything would be convincing for some.

 

[mtrycrafts]

This is why this thread fails on so many levels and it can be summed up in a few sentences by Freeman Dyson.

"Science and religion are two windows that people look through,
trying to understand the big universe outside, trying to understand
why we are here. The two windows give different views, but both look
out at the same universe. Both views are one-sided, neither is
complete. Both leave out essential features of the real world. And
both are worthy of respect." ( Physicist Freeman Dyson)

But, did he offer a more complete view? Is he also a philosopher now?
Do we really need to know why we are here? Is there really an answer or just one of those abstract thought processes like - what happens when an immovable object meets an irresistible force?

 

[zhimbo]

The gap is between the stuff we used to be before we were primates and when we became primates. Dig me up some fossils of us as the thing that climbed out of the ocean, then a fossil of each form we took untill we became primates.

I see that you accept the fact that there is no large gap in the fossil records between humans and non-human primates. Good for you. As for the rest?

OK, here you go: link link2 link3

 

[mtrycrafts]

... however they cannot prove the other camp wrong. You cannot prove a creator of some sort does not exist (even though I do not believe in that). No matter what is said, neither camp will budge and you are stuck at a stalement. What has changed since the beginning of this thread, NOTHING!.

But, can they prove that THEY are right?
Yes, the existence of such a creator cannot be proven or disproved, it cannot be falsified, hence no scientific basis can be had in this natural universe.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Im really amused at the number of non religious people (homosexual or straight) who would use the term "Marriage". It is a term that most religions use for the joining of a man and a woman and is widely viewed to be a religious ceremony.

What is written on such civil documents if not marriage?
Perhaps further reading is in order?

http://www.yawningbread.org/apdx_2004/imp-141.htm

http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp12132003.html

http://stephaniecoontz.com/articles/article21.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_mar2.htm

 

[mtrycrafts]

I see that you accept the fact that there is no large gap in the fossil records between humans and non-human primates. Good for you. As for the rest?

OK, here you go: link link2 link3

I think he is trying to argue against all of the known evolutionary science out there without doing any basic research; kind of following a sermon as being factual
He needs to submit his paper to peer review

Lucky we have enough left in nature after all the 100s of millions of years of destruction on the planet.

 

[MinusTheBear]

But, can they prove that THEY are right?
Yes, the existence of such a creator cannot be proven or disproved, it cannot be falsified, hence no scientific basis can be had in this natural universe.

Thats the whole point, not matter what is said, what facts are stated, what evidence is given there is never any convincing. These debates never go anwywhere. One argument is science, the other is faith based. Not even worthy of a comparison or argument IMO.

 

[Adam]

Thats the whole point, not matter what is said, what facts are stated, what evidence is given there is never any convincing. These debates never go anwywhere. One argument is science, the other is faith based. Not even worthy of a comparison or argument IMO.

I think that value can come from discussion. When people just try to win an argument about this (especially with targeted point-by-point responses), however, then there isn't much value. As you said, no one is going to be persuaded - at least not by short quips on an A/V forum.

 

[Alex2507]

I wonder how this question of ID will be handled when another intelligent race of beings finally land on this planet, and, by chance look different from us, by a lot

Having been recently released by the aliens who have already landed on several occaisions,
I can speak on this ... for a small fee.

 

[Adam]

Having been recently released by the aliens who have already landed on several occaisions...

Which ones got you? The short greys? Oh, wait. Listen to me. Of course it was them. The others would have eaten you.

I can speak on this ... for a small fee.

Shhhh! Careful, my friend. The lizards have spies everywhere.


Hey. HEY! Get off of me! What are you doing? Let go of me! You'll never take me back. NEVERRRR!!!! I am the walrus! You'll see! You'll all see! Hey, what's in that needle? Get that away from! Get...that...away...

Awwww, look at the pretty birdie...

 

[unreal.freak]

Ok im going to throw this out there for mtrycrafts to make another witty post about.

i have a very hard time believing that scientists can date fossils and other finds back to "Millions of years ago" with radiocarbon dating. You can believe it is possible as for me I think that you have to be able to prove its millions of years old to start with, then you can test radiocarbon dating on it to prove radiocarbon dating is accurate.


The reason i believe evolution to be theory is because Darwin himself said it was.

 

[Adam]

The reason i believe evolution to be theory is because Darwin himself said it was.

Tommy, this is understandable. I think that some of the misunderstanding is in the semantics about what a "theory" is. It was stated earlier, but not in a very civil manner.

A scientific theory is not the same as what most people think of when they think of a theory. To a lot of people, a theory is a guess or a hunch. The meaning in science is not the same. There's a good description on Wikipedia about this.

One other thing is that more empirical evidence has been collected since Darwin was alive and made any statements about this theory. There's more to back it up now.

I'm not arguing for or against it. Personally, as I've stated earlier in this thread, I do not think that evolution and creationism need to be considered mutually exclusive. That thinking is allowed by my belief that the entire Bible is not to be taken literally. For those that take the entire Bible literally, then I imagine that the two concepts cannot both be true in their minds.