JL Audio Fathom 113; phase help

[Franin]

Hi guys I would be soon picking up 2 JL Audio Fathom 113 subs. The pos of my subs i was told by JL Audio guys to place where the focal subs are originally placed. The HAA Calibrator has already set the settings for the two subs(Focals) but wondered do I transfer these settings to the Fathoms or do I start again and use the ARO on each independant sub.I was also told to run Audyssey on top of it after the ARO has done it's job because Audyssey sorts out the Phase,Low Pass etc. Firstly is that true? secondly if it isn't how can I determine to work out the phase? Is there like a manual for dummies like myself in how to work this stuff out? I don't want to call out the HAA calibrator as my spkr,sub pos are fine so he will be a waste.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[rmk]

Hi guys I would be soon picking up 2 JL Audio Fathom 113 subs. The pos of my subs i was told by JL Audio guys to place where the focal subs are originally placed. The HAA Calibrator has already set the settings for the two subs(Focals) but wondered do I transfer these settings to the Fathoms or do I start again and use the ARO on each independant sub.I was also told to run Audyssey on top of it after the ARO has done it's job because Audyssey sorts out the Phase,Low Pass etc. Firstly is that true? secondly if it isn't how can I determine to work out the phase? Is there like a manual for dummies like myself in how to work this stuff out? I don't want to call out the HAA calibrator as my spkr,sub pos are fine so he will be a waste.

Any help would be appreciated.

Hi Frank,

Congrats on the Fathoms, I think you will be very happy. Since you have Audyssey (Multi EQ?) I would recommend running the Fathoms as master/slave and run ARO from the master sub before running Audyssey. Set the Master Fathom in Ref mode which turns the level and phase setting over to your AVR/SSP and Audyssey.

If you are not happy with those results, you can run the Fathoms as dual Masters and use the Variable instead of Ref setting to play with Phase and Level on each sub. Dual master mode will require you to run ARO separately on each sub. Once you get to the best sound out of that process you can use Audyssey to smooth the overall response.

It is really a simple but time consuming process. I hope you enjoy your Fathoms as much as I do mine.

 

[Franin]

Hi Frank,

Congrats on the Fathoms, I think you will be very happy. Since you have Audyssey (Multi EQ?) I would recommend running the Fathoms as master/slave and run ARO from the master sub before running Audyssey. Set the Master Fathom in Ref mode which turns the level and phase setting over to your AVR/SSP and Audyssey.

If you are not happy with those results, you can run the Fathoms as dual Masters and use the Variable instead of Ref setting to play with Phase and Level on each sub. Dual master mode will require you to run ARO separately on each sub. Once you get to the best sound out of that process you can use Audyssey to smooth the overall response.

It is really a simple but time consuming process. I hope you enjoy your Fathoms as much as I do mine.

thankyou very much for taking your time to respond and explaing the way I can give it a go.I was talking to the guys at JL audio over here in AUS yesterday and they told me to run them both Master also as you just said they also said it's the best way because the ARO works more efficintley that way. But the problem is if the Audyssey does not work good(which im sure it should) is understanding how to work the Phase. I've read some articles but there is no step by step process, how to figure which will be the right setting, it's bloody hard if trying to do it manual.I guess i want to get a good understanding of it so I can be able to tweak if need be.

looking forward for the Fathoms, was going for the velodynes but after reading all the reviews and talking to a few people looks like this is the way to go.

Thanks again

Frank

 

[rmk]

thankyou very much for taking your time to respond and explaing the way I can give it a go.I was talking to the guys at JL audio over here in AUS yesterday and they told me to run them both Master also as you just said they also said it's the best way because the ARO works more efficintley that way. But the problem is if the Audyssey does not work good(which im sure it should) is understanding how to work the Phase. I've read some articles but there is no step by step process, how to figure which will be the right setting, it's bloody hard if trying to do it manual.I guess i want to get a good understanding of it so I can be able to tweak if need be.

looking forward for the Fathoms, was going for the velodynes but after reading all the reviews and talking to a few people looks like this is the way to go.

Thanks again

Frank

No problem Frank, setting up subs can be very tedious and frustrating. A tool I have found very helpful is the Velo SMS-1. Besides being an LF EQ device it displays the results on your screen for immediate and visual frequency response feedback for all aspects of the sub tweaking process. The main draw back is that it only takes it's measurements from one location but you can move the mic around. Sub tweaking requires lots of time and patience but the rewards are great if you get it right.

Enjoy those F113's!

 

[Franin]

No problem Frank, setting up subs can be very tedious and frustrating. A tool I have found very helpful is the Velo SMS-1. Besides being an LF EQ device it displays the results on your screen for immediate and visual frequency response feedback for all aspects of the sub tweaking process. The main draw back is that it only takes it's measurements from one location but you can move the mic around. Sub tweaking requires lots of time and patience but the rewards are great if you get it right.

Enjoy those F113's!

For someone who is a beginner like me if I bought the SMS-1 will i be able to understand it's workings? Does it do everytring automatically for you? Im trying to get a grasp on how to understand the graphs see when my room was calibrated the professionals did the job, they explained things but were too quick in there explanations. Is there some literature I can learn and understand these graphs?

 

[Warpdrv]

Hey Frank.... Your getting the best advise from anyone out there with RMK!, he has 4 of the F113's in his room... Sweeet....

I found that this is great guide for beginners to get a feel for the SMS-1. But seriously you will have it all figured out within less then 30 mins... great tool, I love mine.

http://pdf.outlawaudio.com/outlaw/docs/sms1guide.pdf

 

[Franin]

Hey Frank.... Your getting the best advise from anyone out there with RMK!, he has 4 of the F113's in his room... Sweeet....

I found that this is great guide for beginners to get a feel for the SMS-1. But seriously you will have it all figured out within less then 30 mins... great tool, I love mine.

http://pdf.outlawaudio.com/outlaw/docs/sms1guide.pdf

Thanks Warpdrv for the link. Im very happy that he replied to my previous post.Yes looking at trying to get a grasp of this.

 

[darien87]

Thanks Warpdrv for the link. Im very happy that he replied to my previous post.Yes looking at trying to get a grasp of this.

You're in Perth huh?

Ever hear of a guy named Darren Bennett? He used to punt for the San Diego Chargers here in the NFL. He was a hell of a kicker. He had the coolest Aussie kicking style where the ball would flip when it came off of his foot.

 

[larry7995]

Hey Frank.... Your getting the best advise from anyone out there with RMK!, he has 4 of the F113's in his room... Sweeet....

I thought he had 112s up front for the tightness and punch for music and then the 113s in the back?

 

[Warpdrv]

I thought he had 112s up front for the tightness and punch for music and then the 113s in the back?

Doh.... I stand corrected... My bad on the mis-information, but needless to say, I think RMK! is well qualified to help in this situation...

I only have a lowly single F112, so I am not as qualified to answer or help on setup of multiple JL subs....

 

[rmk]

A pair of F112’s and 2 F113’s is correct and thank you for the vote of confidence fellas but I am no expert on any of this. Just learning as I go and enjoying the journey.

Warp gave a good tip on the Outlaw Audio SMS-1 guide as it gives a clear and concise description of the how and the why of all of the SMS-1’s capabilities. The manual mode is a relatively easy tool to use and the “real time” display of your room’s low frequency response is very informative and educational.

I did find the quad Fathoms very easy to get sounding good. The Harman White Paper on subwoofer placement was helpful but as has been pointed out before, that information is based upon a rectangular space and my room does not conform to that standard. I believe that the wide distribution of subs in my room makes the bass powerful and non-localizable even without EQ. With ARO, SMS-1 and the Audyssey room correction software in my Integra 9.8, I have plenty of tools to tweak the LFR to my taste.

I am very fortunate that I can afford four Fathoms but I honestly believe that with some position flexibility and room treatments, dual subs of just about any manufacturer would give excellent results. For a “Bass Head” (and I guess I qualify) quad subs just make it that much better.

 

[Franin]

I am very fortunate that I can afford four Fathoms but I honestly believe that with some position flexibility and room treatments, dual subs of just about any manufacturer would give excellent results. For a “Bass Head” (and I guess I qualify) quad subs just make it that much better.

When I had my room calibrated by a HAA consultant, he also said that 2 subs should be the minimum for every room and having them identical is also a big plus.Have to agree with you also in regards of room treatment another big plus when it comes to audio improvement in any home theatre room.The difference is night and day.

 

[surferaudio]

Have you used a Rives CD to help out with the phase? I wonder what CD or tool you used to help cancel out the phase and deal with room treatment issues..

 

[rmk]

Have you used a Rives CD to help out with the phase? I wonder what CD or tool you used to help cancel out the phase and deal with room treatment issues..

I have the Rives CD but have only used it for frequency level checks, not phase adjustment. As i recall the Rives CD will test for proper wiring of your speakers and indicate an out of phase speaker (reverse wired) but that has nothing to do with the mono LFE channel.

In my case, the Velo SMS-1 has a single LFE phase adjustment although the 5 presets can be phased differently. By running the Fathom(s) in Variable mode it also can be phase adjusted. It should be noted that with multiple Fathoms in a Master/ Slave configuration, only the Master sub can be adjusted for phase, level ect.

I also have Audyssey room correction software in my Integra SSP but I have no idea if it adjusts the phase of the LFE channel.