Please help with new Media room!!

[jmgonza6]

So I was originally setting my condo up for pre wire and such, but now I have inherited a decent sized home. It has a "media" room that is about 15' x 30' x 10' (ceilings) I have been thinking non stop of the possiblities of this room! I dont want to make it a full on dedicated theater per say I want it as a multi-purpose room. It currently has a pool table and bar in the rear and then the entertainment center is against the 15' wall. I want to use as much of my current system as possible, which is as follows:

HC6000
120" screen, want to replace this with the largest possible!!
Yammy HTR-6160
Energy C-3 Front mains
Energy C-C1 center channel
Klipsch RF something
SVS CS Ultra
M2200 amp for the CS Ultra
PS3 for BD, SD DVD, & CD
HD DVR cable box

Now my question is first and MOST IMPORTANT, what is the largest possible screen I can achieve, I mean I want big ~160"+. I would prefer it to be electric, but manual pull down is fine as well. I dont want it to block some of the windows. The room can be light controlled via plantation shutters and a pair of doors leading to the rest of the home. My second question is if my current gear will suffice this room. I believe it will. Like I said I dont want this to be a theater only, just have a kick *** sound system with a monster screen. Room acoustics will be added if neccessary. I am definatly thinking of adding a second CS Ultra. Third and final question would be as far as speaker upgrade which would be the a great route to progress from my current Energies, I LOVE THESE SPEAKERS btw. I have been looking at some Paradigm Studios and Klipsch THX Ultra II. I know complete different ends of the spectrum but I like the way Klipsch sounds, I had them previous to my Energies. But as I have stated this will not be just for movies. It will incorporate movies as well as music for get togethers and what have you. I will be moving in on Sept. 1st so Id like to get started. Oh ya my company is open for distributing Da-Lite and Draper, so Id like to stick with these two as I can run it through my company. Cheers. Thanks in advance.

Joe

 

[jostenmeat]

I don't know what the absolute largest available is among the varying brands. But DaLite makes a High Power screen at 159". They do not come as electric in this size. One nice thing about the screen, as a manual, is that they are more resistant to waves (stiffer material). I have seen some ripple/waves while watching before, but this is a very rare occurrence, and is only ever detectable to me when its a large scale pan. Ive curiously asked others about it, and they never noticed AFAIK. They are too blown away by it all I guess.

Good luck in finding an electric. Tab tensioned maybe. They both will be expensive. BMXTRIX would be the first person I'd ask on these boards. That being said, my 159" HP custom ordered in black, with CSR (controlled screen return) was under 1k shipped.

Issues with HP: retro-reflective means narrow viewing cone. Stay within 20 degrees. This also means mounting the PJ as close to eye-level is most beneficial. Fast drop off in brightness at 20 degrees. Still, I fit in 8 viewers, but there is one particular seat that gets shafted a wee bit (right-most, front-most), and to my perceptions, dependent on the actual movie. (It is NOT dependent on the movie, but I just notice it with some, and I don't with others). That's just me, anyone else sitting there is still blown away.

However, glancing at your PJ, its rated lumens is 1000. You might want to find out how over-rated that might be. Because with the 2.8x gain of an HP screen, it might be TOOOO bright, especially if light control was perfect. Of course, usually after calibrating there is a drop in brightness. That being said, my FL is 26 as far as paper specs, and it looks freaking amazing. Yours would be about 37.

If you can get a 1.8x gain, you have roughly 23 FL with 16:9 159". That would be just about perfect IMO.

If I did this all over again, and had a TON more money, I might consider an AT screen. But I wouldn't be able to get the desired brightness, for many viewers, at a lower cost. Maybe one day long in the future. Doubt it though.

The two first AUDIO upgrade paths I think of are 1) Room treatments. 2) possibly an outboard amp depending on the speakers you end up with, # of viewers, how much treatments you have added, etc.

I think Im using about 125 lbs of treatments in the HT so far. I plan on adding ceiling treatments, and possibly a couple more sidewall treatments. I advise you to invest in this area if audio is important to you. HT setups are generally desired to be pretty dead as well.

 

[jmgonza6]

Ya I have given up on the electric route, Im not that lazy, just thought it might be a cool effect. My main concern was the DaLite HP being tooooo bright like you said. I then started looking at the Video Spectra 1.5 from DaLite which has a gain of 1.5 and a viewing angle of about 30*. I am guessing that my PJ will be sat about 15' away from the screen wall. By placing it as near to eye level as possible, do you mean putting it on a stand behind the couch versus hanging it from the ceiling. This room is completely light controlled via plantation shutters and the wall that gets the most light in will be covered be the screen any way. I got some measurements off the DaLite measurements and the 159" screen will be a whopping 11 1/2 feet wide and around 6-8 tall!!! This is going to be unreal!! I am currently using a 100" screen so this will be a monumental upgrade. I guess I will have to play around with placement and heights to suffice a good shot at the screen wall. Room treatments arent a must unless I feel my speakers are getting lost in the room. How do I calculate (FL's)? I am running my current set-up as stated at 100" and the PJ is around 12' away from the screen. The PJ has full zoom on it right now. I will be taking pictures of the room with out anything done, the way it sits to let you guys get some ideas going and to give you a visual of what Im thinking as far as placement of speakers and sub(s). Thanks again! Cheers

Joe

 

[jostenmeat]

eye-level, yes, that would work. Mine is on top of a bookshelf.

15' away = 42 degree viewing angle, which is about the same for my front row.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

Your attitude regarding room treatments: That's fine then, but spending on anything else is a misallocation of resources, IMO. I can possibly see getting an outboard amp or second sub, but even those are pretty secondary IMO. You will see for yourself. They call it an upgrade "path" for a reason.

You are right on the screen being enormous. I had two friends help me install it. Its pretty damn heavy. After all, it has glass beads emulsified into the screen.

FL is calculated by taking your Lumens and dividing by Square Footage. So:

1000 lumens for the PJ (you need to research how accurate this number is, and how far off it will be after calibration).

159" has dimensions of 78" x 139". To get Sq Ft you multiply, so that equals 10,842 sq inches. Make it Sq Feet by dividing by sq ft, or 144 sq in. That = 75.3 Square Feet.

1000 lumens divided by 75.3 = 13.28 FL.

Take 13.28 and multiply by whatever gain you decide upon. Example, 13.28 x 1.8x gain = 23.9 FL.

Expect real world to be less, whether due to exaggerated specs, or out-of-the-box PQ being off from desired calibration.

-jostenmeat

 

[jmgonza6]

Pictures of the "Shell"

This is where I will be mounting the 159" Da-Lite HP! I have about 16' from the wall to behind the couch, where the PJ will be mounted. The distance between the windows is only 7' so they will be somewhat covered. Who needs windows anyway.

This is the rear of the room, nothing theater will be back here just wanted to give a feel for the room.

Another shot of where the screen will be mounted.

I will be keeping the black entertainment center under that puny TV. It is about 18" tall. I have 10' ceilings in there so I fell like there should be enough for the 159"er. I know the pictures arent that clear, 2mp iPhone isnt the greatest, but there is a nice slot for my center channel inside the furniture piece so I can have the screen come all the way to the top of the furniture. Let me know what you guys think. I will be moving in next week and will have all of the "toys" set-up shortly there after and will be posting pics. I have a 130" piece of screen material until the big boy gets here. Cheers!

Joe

 

[jmgonza6]

Apparently my pictures didnt work, so here they are. I tried using the link url function but did not work so these are the direct links. Please excuse the shitty iPhone camera. Cheers.

Joe

http://flickr.com/photos/26350585@N03/2782107779/sizes/l/
Screen wall. As I stated in the post above, I will be keeping the black enetertainment center under that puny TV.

http://flickr.com/photos/26350585@N03/2782107525/sizes/l/
Rear of the room, nothing goes here just wanted to give you guys an idea of what I am working with.

http://flickr.com/photos/26350585@N03/2782107319/sizes/l/
Another shot of the screen wall.

I will be posting pictures shortly of the set-up with the stand in 130" screen while I wait for the 159" DaLite HP. Cheers. Let me know what you guys think.

Joe

 

[jostenmeat]

jmgonza6,

You ordered it already? Hm. Its always difficult to REALLY tell from a pic, but that might be too big man, seeing how close that couch is.

Also, if you are claiming perfect light control, are you sure its not too bright? Getting too much gain can usurp black detail from a good PJ.

With all that I was trying to help you with, I forgot to mention one other tip/opinion: put the PJ up, and throw the pic at the wall. And then sit on the decision for a few days, as you try it again.

I think I waited a week before I ordered. It wasn't an easy decision for me to go huge, because I knew I was going to limit myself in audio terms. If there was an in-between size between the two largest, I would have gone for that, but in retrospect I'm glad I went with the biggest.

Just want to make sure. Did you research the brightness of your PJ? My fingers are crossed for you, because I'm a bit worried.

 

[jostenmeat]

Another word of warning I've also failed to mention. Did you say you were using your PJ with extreme zoom? PJs often lose brightness at either extreme of zoom/shift. Find out about its comfort zone, so to speak.

Are you sure that you can even get 159" at max zoom/shift, depending where the PJ goes?

 

[jmgonza6]

From what Art told me on AVS, it is possible with proper lighting control. When I ran the calculations on projectorcentral it said I would be able to acheive that size from between 16 and 20 feet, 16 feet obviously being on full zoom, my room is 35 feet long. I have an old 130" screen that has a gain of about 1.3 so that will be my tester. I feel that if it is a nice image at that size and gain the 2.8 gain of the HP will make up for the difference in size. I might even need to consider selling my PJ and bumping up to the Pannasonic AE2000u or the Epson 1080ub. Another member on AVS had the AE2000u on the HP and it looked prestine! I will be posting pictures when I get things started. Cheers!

Joe

 

[jostenmeat]

Art who? Sonnenborn? Feierman?

You have a nice room. Obviously some budget too. I know its REALLY REALLY REALLY hard not to pull the trigger on various items. I see you are looking at the 663. I see you are thinking of DTs.

Speaking from very recent experience, see how well you can resist the itchy trigger finger, and research as much as you can.

There is so much to research, IMO. You scratch the surface, and then make a $900 purchase.

The 663 only has two HDMI ins I believe, not 3 like you say. It cannot matrix hi def HT bitstreams for 7.1, but does so for m-ch pcm. It also clips BTB/WTW for HTPC users. The amp section is weaker than most. Nice that is has preouts at an entry level price.

As for speakers, that should take a lot of your research as well. I'd like to add that you should REALLY consider placement, as well as center channel designs, configurations, and again, placement.

 

[jmgonza6]

I meant to say Jason Turk, dont know where the Art name came from. I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the Yammy. I figure if it isnt enough then thats what Emotiva and Outlaw are for maybe something even nicer depending on the budget at the time. The DT's wont be an addition for at least some time, around 6 months or so. I have realized as well as my girlfriend has realized that placement is HUGE. Even she can tell audibly when I have placed the speakers further away from a wall or corner. The biggest improvement I heard was by facing the front mains some what angled towards us and had the center channel angled up a bit. My only question on placement is with my subs. If you take a look at my room where would you place them? Keep in mind that I will be placing all my audio equipment in the entertainment center under that TV. I have (1) CS Ultra and (1) PSB SubSeries 5i. The Ultra is passive and the PSB is powered. Any reccomendations on where they go? I have been using my CS Ultra all by itself and it sounded great, but since I came across this new set-up there are some left overs to be had, and thats where the PSB came from. I was thinking that I should put the Ultra in one of the corners but not sure. What say you? Thanks in advance.

Joe

 

[mtrycrafts]

From what Art told me on AVS, it is possible with proper lighting control. When I ran the calculations on projectorcentral it said I would be able to acheive that size from between 16 and 20 feet, 16 feet obviously being on full zoom, my room is 35 feet long. I have an old 130" screen that has a gain of about 1.3 so that will be my tester. I feel that if it is a nice image at that size and gain the 2.8 gain of the HP will make up for the difference in size. I might even need to consider selling my PJ and bumping up to the Pannasonic AE2000u or the Epson 1080ub. Another member on AVS had the AE2000u on the HP and it looked prestine! I will be posting pictures when I get things started. Cheers!

Joe

Late to the game but...
Don't forget, your post calibration lumens WILL be less than the advertised lumens and in many cases, way less.
Also, those shutters don't seem to have lots of leaks. May need a curtain over them?
Reconsider the screen size versus the viewing distance.

 

[jmgonza6]

I dont have an exact lumen output after calibration, but I know that the rated 1000 lumens are in fact 987. Per projector central, when the zoom is set to full the lumens decrease by 24% down to 694. Again per projector central "video optimized color balance" in low lamp mode with the lens maxed will be at 404 lumens. Im not sure if that will quite cut it. So the decision will be made when I have the 130"er up and have the PJ running. Anyone need an HC5000? What about suggestions on placement of subs? Cheers.

Joe

 

[jostenmeat]

I didn't look at the pics again, but some articles for sub placement

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/speaker-setup-guidelines/subwoofer-placement-guidelines/?searchterm=subwoofer

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/subwoofer-placement-the-place-for-bass-part-1/subwoofer-placement-the-place-for-bass-part-1-page-8/?searchterm=subwoofer

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/speaker-setup-guidelines/crawling-for-bass-subwoofer-placement/?searchterm=subwoofer

I'm not sure, but I think the flavor of the month for two subs is opposing midwall points.