I need your advice.

[jboogie]

Ok, so I have built the Kappa simple build and am hooked on DIY home audio. I hate to bother everyone but I have some questions.

To begin with here is my setup.

Pioneer VSX-504s 5.1 (150 watts RMS) (1997 model)
Bash 300 plate amp
Infinity Kappa Perfect 12 DVQ
DIY Mark III MTM speakers

1. My sub sounds great with music. It blends nicely and is very accurate. Here is my situation. If I turn the music up to a level that makes the sub actually start to move, my mains start maxing out. If I listen to the music at a comfortable level the sub is doing nothing. (sounds good but no real impact)

So, in order to get the sub more volume what do I need to do? Cap the mains so they don't blow out. Cap the sub so it doesn't recieve any high frequency. And boost the low end to get the bass I desire...correct?

2. If I purchased the Behringer 2500 amp and the DCX2496 would this allow me to address these situations?

3. My sub is good at getting very deep but I don't get the punch in the chest effect from it. Is this due to the lack of watts that all of you had warned me about, or is it simply not what this sub was desingned to provide?

4. My sub is in a fairly large room. 22x14 with openings to the downstairs as well as the dinning room. Could this be the cause of the lack of punch?

5. Would building two subs provide better oomph? That is an obvoius question but would they then provide the palpable bass I am looking for? (your opinion)

6. I have my sub connected to the LFE sub connection on my reciever with a 50' RCA cable of low quality. Can there be NOTICABLE signal loss in a long length of RCA cable? Could this be a cause of my lack of volume from the sub?

I will end here as I am sure that this is plenty. Thank you all for all of your help.

 

[Haoleb]

Do you have the volume on the plate amp up all the way? If so can you turn up the LFE output on your reciever?

I definetly think you'll get more of what you're looking for with the Ep2500 and DCX, And if you could build a second, even better! I definetly can feel the kick in the chest feeling on some tracks if i turn it up loud enough, However I can say for sure you'll need more power to get to that point. 300 watts for the DVQ version is probably a little low. Are you running the voice coils in parallel or series? I would doubt that your getting significant signal loss with your sub cable. 50' is kinda long but it should still work just fine.


Any pics?

 

[jboogie]

Thanks for everything Haoleb! Your posts were great. To answer your question, my sub is set up in parallel at 8 ohms.

 

[Haoleb]

The DVQ has dual 4ohm VC's, You would have to wire them in series to get 8ohms, and in parallel you get 2ohms. Neither of which are really, ideal for the amp I would imagine, to get the most power.

I dont really know if the sub not really pounding is because of lack of power or some other issue, But the power i'm sure is an issue. I have already clipped my newer amps that are supposed to be running 1.4kw into each sub bridged. Optimistic I think. I dont think powersupply on the amps is beefy enough to sustain the voltage when it hits hard as I can see the Power LED faintly dim with the music if I am really pushing it. That or the circuit the amps are on is not powerful enough, Its a 15A circ. I already am using my 20A dedicated one. Playing the song I really clip it with ( Lollipop by "lil wayne" ) And measuring AC voltage on the line its sagging nearly 14v when the amps start clipping, from 120v down to 107v

 

[TLS Guy]

Ok, so I have built the Kappa simple build and am hooked on DIY home audio. I hate to bother everyone but I have some questions.

To begin with here is my setup.

Pioneer VSX-504s 5.1 (150 watts RMS) (1997 model)
Bash 300 plate amp
Infinity Kappa Perfect 12 DVQ
DIY Mark III MTM speakers

1. My sub sounds great with music. It blends nicely and is very accurate. Here is my situation. If I turn the music up to a level that makes the sub actually start to move, my mains start maxing out. If I listen to the music at a comfortable level the sub is doing nothing. (sounds good but no real impact)

So, in order to get the sub more volume what do I need to do? Cap the mains so they don't blow out. Cap the sub so it doesn't recieve any high frequency. And boost the low end to get the bass I desire...correct?

2. If I purchased the Behringer 2500 amp and the DCX2496 would this allow me to address these situations?

3. My sub is good at getting very deep but I don't get the punch in the chest effect from it. Is this due to the lack of watts that all of you had warned me about, or is it simply not what this sub was desingned to provide?

4. My sub is in a fairly large room. 22x14 with openings to the downstairs as well as the dinning room. Could this be the cause of the lack of punch?

5. Would building two subs provide better oomph? That is an obvoius question but would they then provide the palpable bass I am looking for? (your opinion)

6. I have my sub connected to the LFE sub connection on my reciever with a 50' RCA cable of low quality. Can there be NOTICABLE signal loss in a long length of RCA cable? Could this be a cause of my lack of volume from the sub?

I will end here as I am sure that this is plenty. Thank you all for all of your help.

If everything is balanced for music you should be fine. You should not be aware of subs. When deep bass is called for it should come out of nowhere. Good systems don't advertise their bass. However when all hell breaks loose in a movie, it should just startle the hell out of everyone, especially those that have never experienced anything like it before.

I keep pointing out that as you read these forums you would think all the audio energy is below 80 Hz. In point of fact there is very little energy below 80 Hz, except during sound effects. I think these subs talked about on the forums are over powered. I use less power below 80 Hz than is talked about on these forums, but significantly more above 100 Hz than most other members.

The major portion of the power is required between 100 and 1000 Hz.

Since you are into DIY, you should consider building mains with good units having powerful motor systems, such as the offerings in the SEAS Exel range, Scanspeak, Morel and of course Dynaudio, though sadly these latter drivers are no longer on the DIY market.

 

[jboogie]

Thanks TLS Guy. I was having the same concern regarding the amp. Do you know or a better solution for about the same $'s?

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks TLS Guy. I was having the same concern regarding the amp. Do you know or a better solution for about the same $'s?

I'm not as concerned about your amp as I am about your mains. What are those Mark III MTM speakers? Who built them, who designed them, what drivers are in them, what is their pedigree, and especially what is the crossover circuit? I have no idea what your mains are, so lets get that cleared up for a start.

 

[jboogie]

Ok, here is the link that describes the build of these speakers. Perhaps you could assertain more from that than I could even tell you... By the way, I built them. I am sorry, but I don't know what you mean by pedigree.

http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/Projects/D3/dayton3.htm

I will say that they sound great, and they blend very well with the kappa. Unfortunately they max out way before the sub really gets going.

TLS Guy, thanks for helping!

 

[TLS Guy]

Ok, here is the link that describes the build of these speakers. Perhaps you could assertain more from that than I could even tell you... By the way, I built them. I am sorry, but I don't know what you mean by pedigree.

http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/Projects/D3/dayton3.htm

I will say that they sound great, and they blend very well with the kappa. Unfortunately they max out way before the sub really gets going.

TLS Guy, thanks for helping!

I have had a good look at the design and it seems competent enough. However the designer is honest about the speakers limitations. The woofers are cheap drivers and less than stellar in the all important midrange. They are not high power drivers. By today's standards, they are of average sensitivity. They are four ohm speakers. Usually receivers don't like loads like that. Do you know the power your receiver will deliver into four ohm loads? The max power handling of those speakers is 100 watts. The tweeter has good performance to 10 KHz then things fall apart.

I think your problem is that you have a Rolls Royce sub with Ford Focus speakers.

Take a look at these kits. Take a very close look at the Thor Kit.

To drive them you will need amplification that performs well driving a four ohm load.

 

[WmAx]

The DCX or other high quality active xover is a requirement, not an option, if one wants proper blending of the sub(s) and main(s). The crossover, btw, will greatly reduce the excursion of the Dayton DIYs you are using, allowing them to go much louder before significant distortion occurs. But please, build a second sub, get better amps, and build better mains(as suggested).

-Chris

 

[jboogie]

Pm'd Garz.

TLS Guy, thank you for your advice, but at this time those kits are out of my price range, especially with all of the other equipment I need to purchase!

One more thing... I read a sticky regarding not having both ends of the RCA cable plugged into your amp if you are using them from the LFE output on the receiver. It said that it could have a significant impact, so i am going to buy a Y-jack connector on Wed. and give it a try.

I am hoping that it makes a difference, and if it does I will let all of you know.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[jboogie]

Can a Behringer 2500 even hook up to my reciever??? I was just looking at the backside of the amp and it occured to me that it probably would not be compatible. Am I correct?

 

[Haoleb]

You would have to get an RCA to XLR cable and run that from your reciever's subwoofer output into the Behringer. Impact Acoustics sells them.