Dish to offer "Blu-Ray" quality 1080p movies

[Hi Ho]

I got an email today from DishNetwork:

http://links.mkt024.com/servlet/MailView?ms=MjExMTAyMgS2&r=OTI1OTg0NTg0NgS2&j=NTQ5OTA3MTES1&mt=1

Blu-Ray quality? I don't know about that. I am curious though how it will look and sound. I tried to go to channel 501 and it doesn't exist yet. Appearently I haven't gotten the update yet.

 

[fmw]

What would be the point? TV's will deinterlace a 1080i signal anyway. Why use more bandwidth to accomplish nothing?

 

[BMXTRIX]

What would be the point? TV's will deinterlace a 1080i signal anyway. Why use more bandwidth to accomplish nothing?

This is incorrect. 1080i MPEG2 broadcasts are nowhere near the quality which Blu-ray (and HD DVD) can offer. The top bit rates for Dish tend to be around 12mbs while Blu-ray offers up to about 50mbs for data.

That's a 4 fold increase, and while there is no way that Dish can actually compete with that, they can definitely get off the MPEG2 train and start using the newer codecs of VC-1 and AVC to deliver broadcasts, and they can ditch 1080i/60 broadcasts in favor of 1080p/24. Keep in mind - 1080i/60 requires 30 full frames being delivered, while 1080p/24 only requires 24 full frames, so you can actually increase the quality, while maintaining the exact same bandwidth!

Also, if you switch to more modern codecs, you can increase the quality still more without increasing the bandwidth overhead.

Yet, they have been delivering HD movies for years which have been nearly at DVD levels in quality, the jump is continuing with companies starting to set their marks on Blu-ray - which is nothing more than good news for Blu-ray establishing itself as the leader for next generation HD video.

 

[Seth=L]

This is incorrect. 1080i MPEG2 broadcasts are nowhere near the quality which Blu-ray (and HD DVD) can offer. The top bit rates for Dish tend to be around 12mbs while Blu-ray offers up to about 50mbs for data.

That's a 4 fold increase, and while there is no way that Dish can actually compete with that, they can definitely get off the MPEG2 train and start using the newer codecs of VC-1 and AVC to deliver broadcasts, and they can ditch 1080i/60 broadcasts in favor of 1080p/24. Keep in mind - 1080i/60 requires 30 full frames being delivered, while 1080p/24 only requires 24 full frames, so you can actually increase the quality, while maintaining the exact same bandwidth!

Also, if you switch to more modern codecs, you can increase the quality still more without increasing the bandwidth overhead.

Yet, they have been delivering HD movies for years which have been nearly at DVD levels in quality, the jump is continuing with companies starting to set their marks on Blu-ray - which is nothing more than good news for Blu-ray establishing itself as the leader for next generation HD video.

From all the posts I have read about video you seem to be the resident video guru.

Keep up the good work.

 

[Hi Ho]

Maybe it's just the placebo effect but I swear that all of the HD channels look even better now. I don't see any of the motion artifacts I used to occasionally see on my local NBC affiliate and all of the channels are razor sharp even when I'm standing right in front of the screen. Something has definetely changed for the better.

I still cannot access I Am Legend in 1080p but from what I could find it could take a few days for all customers to get it.

 

[fmw]

That's fine but that wasn't my point. The issue is 1080 resolution. What I said is that there is no point to transmitting 1080P. Transmitting 1080i is the equivalent when it is seen by the viewer deinterlaced. What is incorrect about that?

 

[engtaz]

I maybe mistaking but, FCC bandwidth has limitations that prevent 1 solid stream of 1080P. The only way the can do it is cut it then piece it back together.

engtaz

 

[BMXTRIX]

That's fine but that wasn't my point. The issue is 1080 resolution. What I said is that there is no point to transmitting 1080P. Transmitting 1080i is the equivalent when it is seen by the viewer deinterlaced. What is incorrect about that?

It is incorrect in a few regards...

1. Some TVs don't deinterlace properly, so if the original source was 24p then the 1080i conversion to 1080p/24 needs to be done properly.

2. 1080p/24 native takes up less bandwidth for the same video quality as 1080i/60. Since they may want to take up the same bandwidth, you get a better image for the same bandwidth.

3. 1080i broadcasts that start as 1080i broadcasts aren't 1080p to begin with, so 1080p conversion occurs, this is completely different and not at all related to the broadcast of native 1080p/24 content.

You are correct that a TV that proplerly deinterlaces 1080i/60 material can take it to 1080p/24 in a manner which is very close to 1080p/24 native broadcasts, but why start with a 1080p/24 source, then convert it to 1080i/60, just to take up additional bandwidth for the broadcast to have it then converted back to 1080p/24? It doesn't make sense to work away from the original then try to work back towards it... Especially, if the original took up less space than the reformatted version.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I got an email today from DishNetwork:
Blu-Ray quality? I don't know about that. I am curious though how it will look and sound. I tried to go to channel 501 and it doesn't exist yet. Appearently I haven't gotten the update yet.

I am also wondering at what bitrate they will transmit those pictures

We know what the initial 5th Element was like. They had to reissue it, but that may have been a different issue

 

[BMXTRIX]

I am also wondering at what bitrate they will transmit those pictures

We know what the initial 5th Element was like. They had to reissue it, but that may have been a different issue

That was a very different issue, and also highlights a point. 1080p vs. 1080i is not the critical point. Bitrate alone is not the point. Advanced codecs aren't the point.

Dish will only look as good as the broadcasts allow for. If TNT HD is still broadcasting, low bandwidth, stretched crap, in MPEG2, then all Dish will do is a live (on the fly!) conversion to AVC and then reduce the bandwidth, and likely lose a bit of quality in the second generation real time encode.

On the other hand, if TNT feeds them a native AVC encode at a solid bit rate, and Dish passes it on, untouched, then we could see excellent quality if TNT actually ensures the quality of that encode to be good.

We can put AVC and VC-1 onto DVD discs and read them at lower bit rates and still get very good results that match or exceed MPEG2 broadcasts in far less space, but the encode and source is still about the most important things in the entire process.

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Yup, until the stations get their act together this is not so much news.
They could at least move to Mpeg4.
I wonder what D* will do? Stay with Mpeg4?