article on Blu Ray Format ..battle is still ongoing

[3db]

July's issue of Home Theater Magezine feels that the battle of the Blu-Ray format entering mainstream is far from over. To sum it up from my understanding, most people are happy enough with the standard DVD format in terms of picture/audio quality. The jump in convienence from VHS to DVD plus its simple operation nailed the coffin shut on VHS but this advantage is lost when going from DVD to Blu Ray is not there. Secondly, it was mentioned that the BluRay players have different (for the lack of finding teh correct word) operating systems. When Blu Ray came out, it started out with v1.0 and did not support picture in picture (pip) . V1.1 has since been released and now offers the pip. v2.0 is out now. Problem is, which operating system is being used when buying a player? How many more upgrades are still coming to take advantage of all the features Blu-Ray has to offer? Its questions like these plus the extra cost that is keepig Blu-Ray from being universaly accepted into people's home.

 

[j_garcia]

The fact is, I don't think most people are interested in 2.0 and even fewer are interested in 1.1 features. I am capable of both and have used neither. I do think 2.0 will eventually catch on, but the problem is that people just don't know or don't care about the level of improvement that is there. My dad was uncertain, so I bought him a player and in his own home on his own gear, he can clearly see the difference.

 

[jamie2112]

There is a difference for sure, but my movies look great even on my 27 inch flat screen{not a lcd}. It isn't enough of a difference for me to warrant me buying a stand alone BD. I will get a PS3 very soon so I will have one then.
I guess I will have to check it out for myself when my PS3 arrives.

 

[j_garcia]

The difference between a good quality BD and SD DVD is about the same as VHS to DVD to my eyes. The difference is easily worth it to me, but that doesn't mean it is for everyone.

 

[jostenmeat]

The difference between a good quality BD and SD DVD is about the same as VHS to DVD to my eyes. The difference is easily worth it to me, but that doesn't mean it is for everyone.

Agreed. The crazy thing is that BDs often don't cost that much more than DVD's, at least from what I've seen. (And outside of the used market). Sometimes, I might be paying the same price as someone else is for the DVD version... at least I have that impression sometimes. Why not get waaaay better video for the same money?

The players are still not cheap though. That's a stumbling block for now. And honestly, most people don't really care. Oversaturated "vivid" tv settings, with what appears to be uber compressed satellite signals, etc... most people just don't know or don't care I think.

 

[3db]

The fact is, I don't think most people are interested in 2.0 and even fewer are interested in 1.1 features. I am capable of both and have used neither. I do think 2.0 will eventually catch on, but the problem is that people just don't know or don't care about the level of improvement that is there. My dad was uncertain, so I bought him a player and in his own home on his own gear, he can clearly see the difference.

I agree with you that there is more than subtle difference visually from a video perspective . Audio wise, I don't know. I can't say if the uncompressed audio formats are as noticeable as their visual counterparts. But I don't think most people care enough at the moment.

 

[sks1969]

jamie2112,

I second your post. Where I live blue ray discs are not yet there. its about 4 to 5 times more expensive than DVD's. I am kind off happy with DVD for now. I have seen and heard blu-ray demos at the Malls. Yes I am impressed. But I feel it has yet to become mainstream. The titles that are region free is not to my taste.
I have yet to buy my first title.
I have a couple of game titles and demos on my PS3.

regards,
sandeep.

 

[PhillyDan1969]

I believe it will eventually move into the mainstream, but it is going to be tough and will most likely take a while.

The VHS to DVD conversion showed that people liked the simplicity and ease of use of DVD, not to mention the promise that the DVD would be a long lasting medium to record and store video. Also keep in mind just how much cheaper production of DVD was to the VHS market.

Now people have large collections of DVDs, and they play them on cheap upconverting DVD players. Blu-Ray is still very expensive in comparison and most people aren't willing to make the move to Blu-Ray for this reason.

I love HD programming and I recently added a 1080p DLP to my home theater and while I would love to add Blu-Ray, I am not pleased with the stand-alone player market both in price and in hardware. Add to that the fact that I continue to buy DVDs each week at almost half the price as a standard new release blu-ray, and it is easy to see the obstacles at work with the general public when it comes to blu-ray moving into the mainstream.

This upcoming holiday season could go a long way toward mainstreaming Blu-Ray if the companies focus on price-points for the hardware as well the software, but I don't think it will happen because the current technology is still more expensive than the simpler DVD!!!

 

[jamie2112]

I believe it will eventually move into the mainstream, but it is going to be tough and will most likely take a while.

The VHS to DVD conversion showed that people liked the simplicity and ease of use of DVD, not to mention the promise that the DVD would be a long lasting medium to record and store video. Also keep in mind just how much cheaper production of DVD was to the VHS market.

Now people have large collections of DVDs, and they play them on cheap upconverting DVD players. Blu-Ray is still very expensive in comparison and most people aren't willing to make the move to Blu-Ray for this reason.

I love HD programming and I recently added a 1080p DLP to my home theater and while I would love to add Blu-Ray, I am not pleased with the stand-alone player market both in price and in hardware. Add to that the fact that I continue to buy DVDs each week at almost half the price as a standard new release blu-ray, and it is easy to see the obstacles at work with the general public when it comes to blu-ray moving into the mainstream.

This upcoming holiday season could go a long way toward mainstreaming Blu-Ray if the companies focus on price-points for the hardware as well the software, but I don't think it will happen because the current technology is still more expensive than the simpler DVD!!!

Very good answer...Agreed 100%

 

[jostenmeat]

Not trying to step on anyone's toes, but BDs aren't really that expensive if you simply shop around. BoGo's, or buy two get one free, or just other sales, from all of the vendors, be it Amazon, Deep Discount, J&R, Fry's.... let alone the double digit free titles with my player purchases. (I got 12 free, but I think I messed up and should've got about 16ish?).

Just speaking honestly, whenever I see someone buy DVD's I think what a waste of money that is. Particularly with my brother and other friends. They are paying very close to what I pay for a BD. On the order of $15 or so. I might average just a weee, tad bit more, and if so, not by much. Its just the honest sentiment I have everytime they buy a new DVD.

Still, as I said already, its the player prices that are the stumbling block IMO. Even if some people have spent just as much, or more, on an upscaling DVD player, I do agree that the vast majority of folks buy cheap players.

 

[PeterWhite]

My Denon DVD 2500 died two weeks after Toshiba announced it was dropping HD DVD, so the decision to buy a Blu Ray player wasn't that hard. I bought the Panasonic ***30 something or other. I figure in a few years I may need to upgrade it, who knows. It's annoying to use as it takes so long for a disc to load, and I needed it for playing music CDs more than anything. So I then bought an Onkyo DVD player. ;-) It also plays DVD-Audio discs so I'm happy.

The image quality is significantly better on the Blu Ray discs than on DVDs, to my eyes. As more and more people get HD television sets, I suspect sales of Blu Ray players will increase quite a bit, and the rental houses will start to carry them. That should happen after this February when our pals in DC force television stations to take analog video off the air.

It shouldn't be more than a year or so before BL players are in the $150 range, now that the HD format war issue is over.

 

[jamie2112]

I have to disagree with you on that. You have not been looking at the same movies that I have. I am seeing movies that I want are 22 to 29 for a single movie on BR...I am just not ready to pay that yet.....to the post before peterwhite

 

[jostenmeat]

I have to disagree with you on that. You have not been looking at the same movies that I have. I am seeing movies that I want are 22 to 29 for a single movie on BR...I am just not ready to pay that yet.....

You then choose to ignore the options I listed: Bogo's, sales, buy two get one free, other promotions. I've taken advantage of all of the above, thru mulitple vendors. And Im not presuming any amount that you pay. I was explaining my personal observations with family and friends. They pay comparable amounts to what I do.

 

[itschris]

I don't think much will change until they actually figure out a way to properly market what blu-ray is and what it does and how it benefits you.

I still talk to people here at the office who either don't even know what it is or think they can hook it up to their 27" CRT.

They just haven't "sold" it. They haven't sold it to the primary customer - the person buying hi-def tv's in the past year. If they'd run ads or commercials touting a "Perfect Partner" to your tv campaign, people would understand. Plus the whole PS3 thing really confuses people. I've talked to a couple of different people who thought Blu-Ray was a gaming system.

 

[jamie2112]

You then choose to ignore the options I listed: Bogo's, sales, buy two get one free, other promotions. I've taken advantage of all of the above, thru mulitple vendors. And Im not presuming any amount that you pay. I was explaining my personal observations with family and friends. They pay comparable amounts to what I do.

I have looked at most of the sites that you listed but even with the discount it seems still like the cost is to high. I guess in a year or 2 that we will see a lower price point as BR will for sure be the way of the future. I remember when dvd came out and they were like 30 bucks apiece. I am sure when I get the playstation 3 that I will end up buying a whole pile of Blue Ray discs...

 

[jamie2112]

I don't think much will change until they actually figure out a way to properly market what blu-ray is and what it does and how it benefits you.

I still talk to people here at the office who either don't even know what it is or think they can hook it up to their 27" CRT.

They just haven't "sold" it. They haven't sold it to the primary customer - the person buying hi-def tv's in the past year. If they'd run ads or commercials touting a "Perfect Partner" to your tv campaign, people would understand. Plus the whole PS3 thing really confuses people. I've talked to a couple of different people who thought Blu-Ray was a gaming system.

That is the gist of what I am hearing too. People are just not informed enough on Blue Ray yet. I am sure it will catch on quickly as more people start to watch movies in their homes instead of going to the theatre...

 

[PeterWhite]

They just haven't "sold" it. They haven't sold it to the primary customer - the person buying hi-def tv's in the past year. If they'd run ads or commercials touting a "Perfect Partner" to your tv campaign, people would understand. Plus the whole PS3 thing really confuses people. I've talked to a couple of different people who thought Blu-Ray was a gaming system.

I suspect you'll see a big push this fall for the Xmass buying season. Now that HD DVD is out of the way, the sales people in the big box stores don't have to explain the differences in the formats between BL and HD DVD. It should be a simple sale. Mr. & Mrs. TV buyer come in for a HD television and want a DVD player to go with it. The salesman just has to say, "For $150 you can have a regular DVD player that will show you movies that look like your old TV set, or you can get the BL player that will show you those old DVDs or these new BL discs that play at the HD level of this new TV, and it costs only this much more."

Mr. & Mrs. are paying a thousand or so for the TV, I doubt they'll quibble about the difference between the cost of a standard DVD player and a BL player.

 

[PENG]

"For $150 you can have a regular DVD player that will show you movies that look like your old TV set, or you can get the BL player that will show you those old DVDs or these new BL discs that play at the HD level of this new TV, and it costs only this much more."

I paid $57 for a DVD player that upconvert to 1080p, not $150. The cheapest BD player still sell for just under $300.

 

[j_garcia]

I paid $57 for a DVD player that upconvert to 1080p, not $150. The cheapest BD player still sell for just under $300.

Upscaled to 1080p and mastered in 1080p are still not the same thing. Unless that was a used price, I wouldn't imagine that player is at the top of of the line in terms of upscaling quality among players either. I have two very good upscaling players and neither looks as good as the typical BD.

 

[itschris]

This is No joke: Last night we're out at dinner at our club with some of our regulars and one our friends, Charlie, who is about my age, is asking about what TV he should get. He wanted a flat panel and didn't mind spending the $ for the best. We were talking about the Kuro's and he seemed settled on a 60" model since he wanted a more theater like experience. We started talking about DVD and I asked him about blu-ray and he said, "My kids don't even play their Nintendo anymore."

Apparently, a lot of people who know only enough to be dangerous seem to equate the blu-ray with gaming because of the PS3. It's easy for me to just think people are stupid, but they're not. They just aren't into it like we are and don't belong to forums or have subscriptions to a/v mags.

It really shows how bad blu-ray's been marketed.

I suspect you'll see a big push this fall for the Xmass buying season. Now that HD DVD is out of the way, the sales people in the big box stores don't have to explain the differences in the formats between BL and HD DVD. It should be a simple sale. Mr. & Mrs. TV buyer come in for a HD television and want a DVD player to go with it. The salesman just has to say, "For $150 you can have a regular DVD player that will show you movies that look like your old TV set, or you can get the BL player that will show you those old DVDs or these new BL discs that play at the HD level of this new TV, and it costs only this much more."

Mr. & Mrs. are paying a thousand or so for the TV, I doubt they'll quibble about the difference between the cost of a standard DVD player and a BL player.