Speaker Gauge

[Sparks]

I have 22 AWG/4 running to my L/R and center channel speakers each of which have about 80W continuous power handling. The runs are only about 15 feet each. Can I get away with using one pair of 22 AWG for each speaker or should I double up both pairs? (each speaker cable has four 22 AWG conductors)

 

[mike c]

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable
http://bluejeanscable.com/articles/what-does-wire-gage-mean.htm

if you already have the wires, i'd use doubled up runs because 15 feet of 22awg isn't sufficient for an 8ohm load.

 

[Haoleb]

Personally, I would throw that wire in the trash and get some 14/2 speaker cable. Most people will get 12 gauge just cuz, But you dont really need to spend the extra money for it. Home depot and lowes carry basic speaker cable. You may want to get some off their rack of spooled wire that you buy by the foot vs the ones they have small rolls of over by the rest of the audio stuff as it will probably be cheaper.

 

[jcPanny]

Speaker wire

Personally, I would throw that wire in the trash and get some 14/2 speaker cable. Most people will get 12 gauge just cuz, But you dont really need to spend the extra money for it. Home depot and lowes carry basic speaker cable. You may want to get some off their rack of spooled wire that you buy by the foot vs the ones they have small rolls of over by the rest of the audio stuff as it will probably be cheaper.

I agree, even 2 pairs of the 22 AWG is only equivalent to one 19 or 20 gauge wire. Try to use the existing wire to pull good 14 AWG speaker wire to the appropriate locations. Also look for in-wall rated wire which will specify CL2 or CL3 on the outer sheath. This type of wire will meet the electrical code.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I use 2 sets of 10AWG to each speaker but I think something is wrong with me.

22 is too small, 14 is about right, 10 makes you a true Audioholic.

 

[markw]

You can probably pick up a roll of 16 gauge wire long enough for both speakers for less than $5, or perhaps even at a dollar store.

Splurge for it.

 

[Sparks]

I already ran the 22-4 wire through the wall and patched the holes, so changing it isn't an option. The reason I went with this particular wire is because it is shielded. I needed the shielding because the wires run along side an AC line. Home Depot and Lowes don't carry shielded in-wall speaker wire nor did Circuit City or Best Buy. I got the wire from a buddy of mine that installs whole house audio for a living. I think I'll be ok with doubling up the 22 AWG wire considering they will only be carrying up to 80W.

 

[Sparks]

Furthermore, my cable runs are no more than 25 feet which should be fine if I double the 22 AWG wires (effectively 19 AWG) for an 8 ohm load (right???). Plus I'm hoping since the cable is twisted and shielded that I will have a good clean signal even with the smaller wire.

 

[zhimbo]

I think I'll be ok with doubling up the 22 AWG wire considering they will only be carrying up to 80W.

The "carrying up to 80W" is irrelevant. What matters is that there will be too much resistance in the wires (regardless of the power rating of the receiver). According to the Roger Russell link, if you have up to 25 foot runs, 18AWG would be marginal, 16 better. This might be a conservative threshold, so you might be OK...you'll have to decide if that level of "might" is OK for you. The link discusses this issue a bit.

 

[markw]

Well then, isn't it a bit late to be asking for advice?

I already ran the 22-4 wire through the wall and patched the holes, so changing it isn't an option. The reason I went with this particular wire is because it is shielded. I needed the shielding because the wires run along side an AC line. Home Depot and Lowes don't carry shielded in-wall speaker wire nor did Circuit City or Best Buy. I got the wire from a buddy of mine that installs whole house audio for a living. I think I'll be ok with doubling up the 22 AWG wire considering they will only be carrying up to 80W.

The reason nobody carries shielded speaker cable is because you don't need shieded speaker cable. You only need shielded cable for line-level interconnects. Also, by having the individual wires twisted you increase inductance, which is not always a good thing in speaker cables.

I'm surprised your buddy didn't point these things out to you.

It sounds to me like you got hold of some sort of signal cable, perhaps for a security system?

 

[Midcow2]

22 gauge will work!

Furthermore, my cable runs are no more than 25 feet which should be fine if I double the 22 AWG wires (effectively 19 AWG) for an 8 ohm load (right???). Plus I'm hoping since the cable is twisted and shielded that I will have a good clean signal even with the smaller wire.

As much As I harp on people using too big of wire you are actually close to using too small of a wire. If you are running speaker wire through a wall always over-spec it!. You may be only running 80watts now but in the future you will likely upgrade to higher wattage.

Basically this is what you have:

Total Resistance
Wire Gauge Resistance /Ft. 5ft 10ft 25ft 50ft
4 0.000292 0.00146 0.00292 0.0073 0.0146
6 0.000465 0.002325 0.00465 0.011625 0.02325
8 0.000739 0.003695 0.00739 0.018475 0.03695
10 0.00118 0.0059 0.0118 0.0295 0.059
12 0.00187 0.00935 0.0187 0.04675 0.0935
14 0.00297 0.01485 0.0297 0.07425 0.1485
16 0.00473 0.02365 0.0473 0.11825 0.2365
18 0.00751 0.03755 0.0751 0.18775 0.3755
20.........0.0119.... 0.0595....0.119..... 0.2975....0.595
22..........0.019.....0.095..... 0.19.......0.475..... 0.95
24 0.0302 0.151 0.302 0.755 1.51


So for 25Ft the resistance of 22 gauge is 0.475 ohms which is 0.475/(0.475+8) = 5.6% You should be okay with 22 gauge.

If you use two 22 gauge wires RT =( 1/((1/r1)+(1/r2)) = .2375 ohms =between 18 and 20 gauge or ~ 19 gauge as specificied before. Then your percentage drops to .2375/(.2375+8) = 2.88% of power on the wire.

Remember though at 80watts 5.6% of your power is absorbed in the wire or 4.48 watts. This amount shouldn't warm the wire too much!

 

[Sparks]

I'm beginning to think it may be security cable. Regardless, I won't be replacing it. The Paradigm 220s have a pretty good sensitivity (93 dB) and I have 75W per channel (rms) available to overcome any cable loss (0.4125 ohms according to my calculations) so I think 19 AWG will be ok. I'll let everyone know how it goes. Thanks for all your advice.

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

Yea, dump the 22ga. Go to Home Depot and get some of the excellent power cord wire. I don't know off the top of my head exactly what it's called there, can somebody else help? But that'll fix you up

 

[Rickster71]

Yea, dump the 22ga. Go to Home Depot and get some of the excellent power cord wire. I don't know off the top of my head exactly what it's called there, can somebody else help? But that'll fix you up

Power cord wire can't be used in-wall. He needs a CL-2 rated wire.
It's all moot at this point, anyway.
He asked the question 'after' he ran the wire in the wall, and patched all the holes.

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

Power cord wire can't be used in-wall. He needs a CL-2 rated wire.
It's all moot at this point, anyway.
He asked the question 'after' he ran the wire in the wall, and patched all the holes.

Guess that's what I get for not reading completely ... didn't even notice he was talking in wall

 

[Sparks]

22 AWG speaker cable

I have 22-4 twisted shielded speaker cable run to my front and center channel speakers with the maximum run being about 25'. I will be doubling up the wires for an effective wire size of 19 AWG. I am powering the speakers with an AVR 635 (75W x 7). According to my calculations, the wire will add about 0.4152 ohms to each line for a total of 8.4152 ohms which results in about a 3.6W power loss at full power (which I will never reach anyhow). Does anyone see any problems with this setup. Replacing the wires isn't an option, and it seems like I have plenty of power to make up for any losses. Also, I have been asked why I am using shielded speaker wire. I figured since the wires are running parallel to an AC line that the shielding would be a good idea. Thoughts/suggestions?

 

[mike c]

I have 22-4 twisted shielded speaker cable run to my front and center channel speakers with the maximum run being about 25'. I will be doubling up the wires for an effective wire size of 19 AWG. I am powering the speakers with an AVR 635 (75W x 7). According to my calculations, the wire will add about 0.4152 ohms to each line for a total of 8.4152 ohms which results in about a 3.6W power loss at full power (which I will never reach anyhow). Does anyone see any problems with this setup. Replacing the wires isn't an option, and it seems like I have plenty of power to make up for any losses. Also, I have been asked why I am using shielded speaker wire. I figured since the wires are running parallel to an AC line that the shielding would be a good idea. Thoughts/suggestions?

it's not necessary to start a new thread (or two) - but i did move this thread into the proper sub forum

the guys here will help you.

---------------

but to answer your question:
you will be probably be hard pressed to hear a difference between the correct sized cable and what you have.

since changing the cable is not an option, there really is nothing you can do whatever we say.

 

[Sparks]

Just determined that this wire is line level audio applications. Should have done some research first. Regardless, I'm stuck with this wire, so I'm going to double it up for an effective wire size of 19 AWG. At a 25' run, this totals about half an ohm of resistance which results in a 3.6W power loss at full receiver power (75W). I won't be powering the speakers at full volume so I think I'll be ok. Also, the speakers I plan on purchasing (Paradigm 220s) have a great sensitivity (93 dB).

 

[Sparks]

Since I won't be using the cable for a line level application, do I need to shield the wires considering they are run within 4" or so of a 110VAC line? Also, there are two drain wires for a total of six conductors. Could I triple the wires by using the drain wire as a conductor, or will that cause problems condsidering it is not insulated and is electrically connected to the foil shield that wraps around all the wires?

 

[Haoleb]

Power cord wire can't be used in-wall. He needs a CL-2 rated wire.
It's all moot at this point, anyway.
He asked the question 'after' he ran the wire in the wall, and patched all the holes.

The CL2 rated wire police arent going to come arrest you for using something other than so called "inwall" rated wire. I have yet to see anything not pass inspection that was Low voltage. Do you have any idea how many people run that cheap crap speaker wire in their walls that has the one copper and one tinned or aluminum wire?

Now days its like everybody needs protection from themselves. And boy do they get it. Getting an inwall rated wire is not as big of a deal as seems to be what everyone thinks around here. The biggest advantage to it is the extra jacket because it gives you much more protection when pulling the wire. Beyond that it doesnt really matter.