No Stupid Questions… Part 4: Myths and Legends

[admin]

As a reviewer (much less the host of AV Rant), I am asked on a regular basis for my opinion. Everyone from the checkout guy at the supermarket to random people at parties want me to tell them which is the best display or speakers or HTiB. Audioholics has put together a number of documents to help people help themselves. This will probably not really be one of them. Someone once said that there are no stupid questions. That person was stupid. This installment will deal with questions about myths and legends.

Discuss "No Stupid Questions… Part 4: Myths and Legends" here. Read the article.

 

[jamie2112]

Speaker cables don't sound Different? WHHAATT thats just crazy talk...

 

[zhimbo]

I thought part 3 was good...but a little, oh, nice. This time we got some extra-bitter Tom! Woo!

The next time I teach the "null hypothesis" I'll have to cite Andry, 2008: "The null hypothesis assumes that you are a big sack of crazy and that you are just imagining it. "

 

[GlocksRock]

I particularly liked the bose bashing parts of that article, even though bose was never actually mentioned.

 

[JerryLove]

So does "electronics don't have a sound" mean that listening tests are disengnuious for anything but speakers?

 

[itschris]

These should be required reading for every new member. I think you should setup some kind of thing where you have to read it then click a button that says, "I UNDERSTAND" for each one before you can post.

 

[Thaedium]

So does "electronics don't have a sound" mean that listening tests are disengnuious for anything but speakers?

Its not that listening tests are disingenuous for all but speakers, but that unless the electronics are bad, any listening test done for electronics will reveal no real evidence of anything. The whole point is that unless electronics are specifically calibrated to alter the sound, or are poorly constructed in the first place that no difference will be made in the sound comming from the speakers. This is a result of the component technologies maturity. They've been around long enough, developed and tweaked to a point where they can pass on the source information without modifying it audibly.

Anyone claiming that switching out a $400 DVD player for a $1000 one results in a more clear and defined sound has the onus on them to prove it. Just saying, "It does sound clearer to me, regardless of what other people think." proves nothing other then that your wishful thinking. The caveat being of course, that both components are not defective and that neither one was calibrated to alter the audio in either case.

Its an old arguement that you will likely see frequently on these forums, and other audio website forums.

 

[kleinwl]

Satisfied Bose Customers

"All I can say is my new Wave Radio is AWESOME!!! I have to sit and stare at it to make sure all of that sound is coming out of that small package."

"What a quality piece of equipment! I love the alarm in the morning, the quiet tone that leads to a loud one for when you are really asleep. I love the way the light on the clock dims in a dark room and darkens when you turn the light on. And the sound is incredible. I have really enjoyed the unit and look forward to spending time in my room. It is easy to operate and very attractive to look at. I played a CD for a friend who couldn't believe their ears! The only downside is I waited so long to actually make the purchase."

I think this goes to show that the only people that are losing out are the Bose Haters... give up your esoteric gear like Denon and crazy stuff like Axiom.... and lets all buy Bose... Better Sound through Research! Come on, how can you beat that!?

P.S. Actually one of my friends (who DJs w/ 20K worth of JBL Speakers) bought a Lifestyle 45 for his appartment and really likes it. It seemed like a crazy amount of money ($4K), and really limited, but he is happy. And that is the root of my story. If you know better you wont be happy with what you have... if you buy into Bose you KNOW your getting the BEST!

 

[Rickster71]

"All I can say is my new Wave Radio is AWESOME!!! I have to sit and stare at it to make sure all of that sound is coming out of that small package."

"What a quality piece of equipment! I love the alarm in the morning, the quiet tone that leads to a loud one for when you are really asleep. I love the way the light on the clock dims in a dark room and darkens when you turn the light on. And the sound is incredible. I have really enjoyed the unit and look forward to spending time in my room. It is easy to operate and very attractive to look at. I played a CD for a friend who couldn't believe their ears! The only downside is I waited so long to actually make the purchase."

I think this goes to show that the only people that are losing out are the Bose Haters... give up your esoteric gear like Denon and crazy stuff like Axiom.... and lets all buy Bose... Better Sound through Research! Come on, how can you beat that!?
If you know better you wont be happy with what you have... if you buy into Bose you KNOW your getting the BEST!

My mother in-law has the Bose Wave, it does sound good.(for a radio)
It's just Not $500 good!
I have a Cambridge Sound Works radio, it sounds as good, with more features, for a fraction of the price.
http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/store/category.cgi?category=aud_radio

 

[JerryLove]

Its not that listening tests are disingenuous for all but speakers, but that unless the electronics are bad, any listening test done for electronics will reveal no real evidence of anything. The whole point is that unless electronics are specifically calibrated to alter the sound, or are poorly constructed in the first place that no difference will be made in the sound comming from the speakers.

But then I take an audioholics review at random (the first amp/reciever-amp I got in the pro reviews section) and there's a page on how it sounds:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/onkyo-tx-sr805/tx-sr805-listening-tests

And it's not just discussing whether it decoded 7.1 or not. From the review:

In comparison to the reference Rotel, the differences tended towards effects at the audible frequency extremes. The Onkyo did not sound quite as detailed or have as much spacial depth.​

Should this review be indicating that the Onyko has "bad electronics"? Because it certainly seems to be saying that the amp has a different sound than another amp.

Anyone claiming that switching out a $400 DVD player for a $1000 one results in a more clear and defined sound has the onus on them to prove it. Just saying, "It does sound clearer to me, regardless of what other people think." proves nothing other then that your wishful thinking. The caveat being of course, that both components are not defective and that neither one was calibrated to alter the audio in either case.

Of course, the axiom for claims is supposed to be "all things are possible, no things are true" until otherwise proven.

Personally, I'm a fan of $35 computer DVD players. They read the data perfectly... now as to the decoder/DAC...

But I digress. I suppose my first point is that Audioholics, as a matter of course, rates the sound quality from well-built non-speaker electronics. Then, in this article, they seem to be telling me that electronics don't have sound.

I personally don't know. I've not really tried comparing various amps in blind tests. I do know that I have an unexplained and easily heard issue with sound from CDs coming out of my BlueRay player. I'm beginning to suspect a problem with the fiber port on the unit, but that looks like it will come back to the "defective" exception.

What I do know is that the claim (no sound fomr electronics) and the fact that audioholics rates the sounds of electronics seems to be paradoxical. Perhaps there is simply something about the claim I have misinterpreted?

 

[fredk]

I can't believe that every piece of electronics affects sound. If I did, as one who carefully considers every purchase, I would go crazy long before I made my first purchase.

 

[MinusTheBear]

What bugs me the most and I do not think it was mentioned in the article is about when people go on these rants about how great their speakers sound after "breaking in". "They sounded so muddy out of the box and now after 300 hours of use the clarity, soundstage and bass extension is so much better. These speakers are now where I want them to be."
This is another myth that will never die.

 

[jamie2112]

" Audiophiles" go figure....there is one born every minute.....

 

[jliedeka]

Actually it's not military grade outlets, it's hospital grade. I know a guy who had one installed in his listening room. He also has the firehose sized Shunyata power cables.

I think the jury is out on speaker break-in. I've seen drivers measured before and after breaking them in. The differences aren't huge and may or may not be audible but the parameters can change. That's not to say you need to run sine waves through your speakers for six months before you can use them.

Jim

 

[fredk]

...when people go on these rants about how great their speakers sound after "breaking in".

Come to think of it, now that I have had my speakers for several months, the boom I attributed to room modes/effects seems to be gone. Say, I think my room is breaking in.

 

[Djizasse]

Come to think of it, now that I have had my speakers for several months, the boom I attributed to room modes/effects seems to be gone. Say, I think my room is breaking in.

It could also be that your ears are breaking in

 

[Seth=L]

It could also be that your ears are breaking in

Brain plays the biggest part, that ol' noggin gets goin and there's no stopin it.

From what I have read speaker break in is a real thing, but most speakers (not all) break in very quickly (less than a minute's time). Audiophile "break-in" is a phenomena caused by your brain adjusting to new speakers. They sound different than your old speakers, which you are used to hearing, so it takes you a while to settle with them and finally get the feeling you are getting better sound (which you may or may not be).

 

[corey]

The next myth for Audioholics to go after is "Hi-Rez" audio: Fact or Fiction. Many reviewers state that there's a big difference between the new BD movie formats & Red Book audio. Both mtrycrafts and tn001d have cited studies that no one can hear the difference. I think it's time for Audioholics to do some controlled tests.

 

[Tom Andry]

Come to think of it, now that I have had my speakers for several months, the boom I attributed to room modes/effects seems to be gone. Say, I think my room is breaking in.

If only you had measured the structural integrity of your walls before and after the introduction of the sub... Wow, what a study that would be!

 

[jamie2112]

Brain plays the biggest part, that ol' noggin gets goin and there's no stopin it.

From what I have read speaker break in is a real thing, but most speakers (not all) break in very quickly (less than a minute's time). Audiophile "break-in" is a phenomena caused by your brain adjusting to new speakers. They sound different than your old speakers, which you are used to hearing, so it takes you a while to settle with them and finally get the feeling you are getting better sound (which you may or may not be).

I would say that speaker break in is a real thing but as you stated it only takes a minute or 2 to break them in. The only thing that needs break in time are tubes........