Lots Of Subs, But No Bass????

[mtrycrafts]

Right now the Towers are at 45Hz Center is 50Hz Subs are at 80Hz all 4 surrounds are at 70Hz. Last night I stacked my second SC sub on top of the other one and it sounded even a little bit better. But it ends up being too tall for the position it is in right now. Oh Well

More and more it seems the room nodes and the sub is where you may need to concentrate on

 

[Matt34]

Try moving one to the back of the theater while keeping one up front. Also see if you can place both of them along the side walls.

 

[annunaki]

If the mains are at 45hz you will want the sub set at about the same frequency.

Realistically, I would set every thing sans the rears at 60hz. Set the rears to 60hz, only if they will play down that low. 60hz is a great x-over point in many rooms when the speakers are capable.

 

[David Gaudreau]

If the mains are at 45hz you will want the sub set at about the same frequency.

Realistically, I would set every thing sans the rears at 60hz. Set the rears to 60hz, only if they will play down that low. 60hz is a great x-over point in many rooms when the speakers are capable.

I'm pretty sure the rears and sides can do the 60Hz. It's weird on my Onkyo TX-SR705 I can't seem to adjust the X-over lower than 80Hz for the Sub. I can go up but not down. That is weird.

 

[David Gaudreau]

Try moving one to the back of the theater while keeping one up front. Also see if you can place both of them along the side walls.

Okay I'll give that a try tonight. one sub up front and one sub in the back you think would surround you in bass!!!!

 

[bandphan]

I'm pretty sure the rears and sides can do the 60Hz. It's weird on my Onkyo TX-SR705 I can't seem to adjust the X-over lower than 80Hz for the Sub. I can go up but not down. That is weird.

You could always purchase a active eq/dsp for all your chanels, since your are using seperate amplification. Then you could use a program like REW to output the filter settings to the dsp. BTW do you have someone doing the install?

 

[DavidG]

Wow, looks like you will have a really nice home theater when it is completed. You may be a good candidate for bass traps and acoustic room treatments to help get a better response.

 

[gene]

I went home last night and started tweaking the X-over settings on the receiver, here is what I came up with.

Front Towers set to 45Hz
Front Center set to 50Hz
Both subs set at 25Hz
Side and rear surrounds set to 70Hz
in just doing this it already sounded a little better. So then I moved both subs to the front of the room right next to the center channel. And that maid a very noticeable difference. I would say 20-30% more bass response. I was wondering what might happen if I just stacked the Super Cube Reference subs on top of each other?? I then would have a poor man Trinity sub woofer. hahahahaha
__________________

Woa don't set your subs to 25Hz! In fact, defeat their crossover and use the one in your receiver instead. I suggest 2 things to try:
1. run your mains full range and set bass out to "both" on your receiver
2. run the subs of your towers thru the sub out, so all 4 subs are mono and playing the same signal or as "stereo L/R subs" if your receiver offers that option.

Option 2 is easiest to integrate correctly, make sure you set the xover on the receiver to 80Hz. Also make sure you place your subs and main speakers with symmetry and equadistant from the listening area, especially if your receiver only has one sub out.

Read this article:
http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/subwoofer-connection-guide

I would place your subs near the front wall, 1/4 L by each wall perhaps to the opposite side where the side woof of your towers is located. I am assuming your running powered BP front speakers. If not, than ignore my 4 sub connection and simply apply what I said here for your 2 subs.

Bottom line is you need to get your bass in the towers and your subs all playing the same signal and properly time aligned and located in the room so you're not fighting too many nulls in the listening area.

I'm pretty sure the rears and sides can do the 60Hz. It's weird on my Onkyo TX-SR705 I can't seem to adjust the X-over lower than 80Hz for the Sub. I can go up but not down. That is weird.

No thats a good thing otherwise you will be filtering out LFE info. Your surrounds should all be set to 80Hz not below!

 

[David Gaudreau]

Woa don't set your subs to 25Hz! In fact, defeat their crossover and use the one in your receiver instead. I suggest 2 things to try:
1. run your mains full range and set bass out to "both" on your receiver
2. run the subs of your towers thru the sub out, so all 4 subs are mono and playing the same signal or as "stereo L/R subs" if your receiver offers that option.

Option 2 is easiest to integrate correctly, make sure you set the xover on the receiver to 80Hz. Also make sure you place your subs and main speakers with symmetry and equadistant from the listening area, especially if your receiver only has one sub out.

Read this article:
http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/subwoofer-connection-guide

I would place your subs near the front wall, 1/4 L by each wall perhaps to the opposite side where the side woof of your towers is located. I am assuming your running powered BP front speakers. If not, than ignore my 4 sub connection and simply apply what I said here for your 2 subs.

Bottom line is you need to get your bass in the towers and your subs all playing the same signal and properly time aligned and located in the room so you're not fighting too many nulls in the listening area.



No thats a good thing otherwise you will be filtering out LFE info. Your surrounds should all be set to 80Hz not below!

Thanks Gene,
Last night I went home and moved one the to SuperCubes to the very back of the room, So I had one up on the front wall "right of the center channel" and one in the very back of the room "more to the left" And DAMN!!! Can I say BOOOOOOMMMMM. what a difference. Not only did the bass become more solid it also sounded like it plays lower. And I haven't even changed any of the settings. I'm going to take your advice and set the powered front towers to "Full range" and run the powered subs in both towers of the LFE output of the receiver. so like you said, all 4 powered subs will be connected. Just for sh*** and giggles I connected one of the LFE cables to the towers while they were playing and the base doubled by just plugging in the LFE cable. Now I want to go home and tweak some more!!!

 

[Matt34]

Thanks Gene,
Last night I went home and moved one the to SuperCubes to the very back of the room, So I had one up on the front wall "right of the center channel" and one in the very back of the room "more to the left" And DAMN!!! Can I say BOOOOOOMMMMM. what a difference. Not only did the bass become more solid it also sounded like it plays lower. And I haven't even changed any of the settings. I'm going to take your advice and set the powered front towers to "Full range" and run the powered subs in both towers of the LFE output of the receiver. so like you said, all 4 powered subs will be connected. Just for sh*** and giggles I connected one of the LFE cables to the towers while they were playing and the base doubled by just plugging in the LFE cable. Now I want to go home and tweak some more!!!

Gene is spot on like usual, this will limit some of the variables you have going on. I still really suggest you download the REW program and get a mike. That way you can visually see what's going on in your room.

 

[David Gaudreau]

How does that work? My receiver has a set up mic? Or do i need a laptop?

 

[bandphan]

How does that work? My receiver has a set up mic? Or do i need a laptop?

Follow the link to rew

 

[David Gaudreau]

Wow, looks very complicated

 

[bandphan]

Wow, looks very complicated

A little time to learn, but it becomes highly addictive to get the "best" sound you can out of your room.

 

[vongerv]

Dave,

I have a similiar speaker set up. Glad to hear you are solving some of your problems, there should be no lack of bass with that set up!

What I have found best for my room and system is:

BP7000SC - set to large hooked up via speaker wire, LFE connection doesn't seem to make a difference and is just another 2 cables. These speakers are flat +/- 3db to 20Hz and SHOULD be run as large.

3000 center - tried both large setting and small with a 40Hz cutoff, both work well there doesn't seem to be a ton of <40Hz center material, and it is nice when deep villian voices eminate from the center channel.

I have 7001SC for surrounds and also run them large, for you however I would think 80Hz would work well for the BPVXs. That built in 6.5 sub would be better off handling only upper bass, crossed to the subs.

As you have discovered experimenting with sub position is the only way to truely unlock what those reference cubes are capable of. I place my two subs along the mid-points of my side walls, by far the best location.

One of the most powerful tools for setting definitive supertowers bass level IMO is the old avia DVD. In the sub-evaluation menu it will run alternating high and low frequency to any channel set as large. With a basic SPL meter you can tailor adjust each built in subs level to exactly match the mid-high frequency output of that same channel. Using this method in my room each built in has a different level to achieve the same SPL even though it is a perfect rectangle (all subs are between 10 oclock and noon).

Enjoy that system! There is no reason with experimenting of positioning and settings you should be able to knock the socks off of anyone who sets foot in that room 135" screen doesn't hurt!

 

[AVRat]

The one bad thing about the DTs paired with receivers with good bass management, too many options!

 

[rollinrocker]

it looks like the Trinty only puts out 88dbs in the same frequency, which is supposed to out preform the reference.

where did you find this bit of info?

i hope you're not refering to the trinity church measurements...

 

[bandphan]

These speakers are flat +/- 3db to 20Hz and SHOULD be run as large.

To 20hz, no way.......

where did you find this bit of info?

i hope you're not refering to the trinity church measurements...

Tom Nousaine, remember this is at 20hz, in a 7500cu room, and at 2 meters. It plays over 103dbs avg between the upper low to about 62hz

 

[rollinrocker]

To 20hz, no way.......



Tom Nousaine, remember this is at 20hz, in a 7500cu room, and at 2 meters. It plays over 103dbs avg between the upper low to about 62hz

are you sure you're talking about the trinity?

craig chase measured 109db at 2m gp...20-63hz av. 115hz

can you direct me to the nousain link?

 

[vongerv]

To 20hz, no way.......


Tom Nousaine, remember this is at 20hz, in a 7500cu room, and at 2 meters. It plays over 103dbs avg between the upper low to about 62hz

The pair of 7000's in my room, loaded, are flat to 20 Hz as measured from the listening position doing bass test tones from 15 to 80 Hz in 1 Hz increments.

I also do not recall any measurement from Tom of the Trinity, which is the biggest of the supercubes and can average a lot closer to 110 - 115db over the 25 - 60 frequency range.