Kappa Perfecct 10VQ

[Alex2507]

After seeing the 12VQ get rave reviews I just have to ask what the possibilities are with the 10VQ. To me size really matters and I'm sure that in this I represent many other wanna be DIY'ers.

In my case a net volume of 2.4 cu.ft. could easily be wrangled out of a HxWxD of 25.5"x23.5"x14.5" external dimension cabinet. That leaves all kinds of room for a slotted port and some serious bracing. I would have the width of the port be 8" and the height open to suggestions.

I don't think I can hear 20 Hz based on watching an RTA in a lightning storm so LF response is not critical and the fact that I live in a condo makes high SPL of limited value.

I'm curious as to why the dual voice coil (DVQ) haven't shared in the praise of the single voice coil (VQ).

For anybody willing to model this and maybe post a couple of graphs the T/S parameters are here at the bottom of the manual.

http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Owner's Manual/Perfect VQ OM FINAL (Revised 12-2-02).pdf

 

[WmAx]

If the smallest size is important, let me recommend JL Audio 8W7-3 8" driver. You can fit this is in a tiny box and still retain the output of a conventional 12" subwoofer. It should be powered by 500 watts mininum. It is a 4 ohm driver, although they say it's 3 ohm. The minimum impedance on the unit I measured was 3.6 Ohms somewhere between 80 and 90Hz, but it mostly is 4 ohms or above. It probably won't produce quite the output of a Kappa Perfect 12" unit - but it should come close - but it will more than match conventional 12" drivers in output. You can use this driver in a 0.7-0.8 cubic foot volume with a slot port and it will have a F3 around 26 Hz with incredibly high output levels. It does not cost that much on eBay, where it can be had for $250 each.

-Chris

After seeing the 12VQ get rave reviews I just have to ask what the possibilities are with the 10VQ. To me size really matters and I'm sure that in this I represent many other wanna be DIY'ers.

In my case a net volume of 2.4 cu.ft. could easily be wrangled out of a HxWxD of 25.5"x23.5"x14.5" external dimension cabinet. That leaves all kinds of room for a slotted port and some serious bracing. I would have the width of the port be 8" and the height open to suggestions.

I don't think I can hear 20 Hz based on watching an RTA in a lightning storm so LF response is not critical and the fact that I live in a condo makes high SPL of limited value.

I'm curious as to why the dual voice coil (DVQ) haven't shared in the praise of the single voice coil (VQ).

For anybody willing to model this and maybe post a couple of graphs the T/S parameters are here at the bottom of the manual.

http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Owner's Manual/Perfect VQ OM FINAL (Revised 12-2-02).pdf

 

[Alex2507]

If the smallest size is important,
-Chris

'Smallest' size isn't important. The dimensions in Post #1 would fit under my Primus 360's which I would turn upside down to get the tweeter to a desired height.

I'm really curious about the 10VQ, especially in a 2.4 cu.ft. cabinet. Actually the cabinet size is of primary importance to me.

 

[TLS Guy]

'Smallest' size isn't important. The dimensions in Post #1 would fit under my Primus 360's which I would turn upside down to get the tweeter to a desired height.

I'm really curious about the 10VQ, especially in a 2.4 cu.ft. cabinet. Actually the cabinet size is of primary importance to me.

Alex, here are the alignments for the JL Audio 8W7-3 and the Infinity Kappa perfect 10 VQ vented, both low and mid Q insert alignments. The Mid Q insert alignment is the most promising. The JL Audio driver is excellent also.

http://www.drmarksays.com/

I will post all speaker alignments on my web site from now on, then I won't have space limitations. There is only 100KB per file allowed on this site. You can get the whole design fille on my site. Let me know if it does not work for you. Mark.

 

[gus6464]

WmAx and TLS, would you both say that the JL is a superior driver than the Kappa 10VQ even when used in a very small sealed enclosure (1 cu ft. max)?

 

[TLS Guy]

WmAx and TLS, would you both say that the JL is a superior driver than the Kappa 10VQ even when used in a very small sealed enclosure (1 cu ft. max)?

The Kappa perfect low insert and the JL 8W7-3 are comparable, the JL having the slight edge on paper. I have not had either in my hands, WmAx has. This is with vented alignment. I have not done sealed alignment.

 

[WmAx]

I have both Kappa Perfect 10" units and JL Audio 8" W7 units, and it is my opinion that the JL 8W7 will most likely exceed the Kappa Perfect 10" unit in performance by a small margin, almost equaling the 12" Kappa Perfect. It's up to you to decide if that is worth $100 price difference for the JL unit.

-Chris

 

[gus6464]

I have both Kappa Perfect 10" units and JL Audio 8" W7 units, and it is my opinion that the JL 8W7 will most likely exceed the Kappa Perfect 10" unit in performance by a small margin, almost equaling the 12" Kappa Perfect. It's up to you to decide if that is worth $100 price difference for the JL unit.

-Chris

Plus the JL doesn't need as much power as the 12" Kappa to hit its peak right?

 

[WmAx]

Plus the JL doesn't need as much power as the 12" Kappa to hit its peak right?

Actually, the JL needs more power to produce the same SPL, due to lower sensitivity.

-Chris

 

[annunaki]

In a 3rd party review I read on the 13W7, it required 3000 watts rms in order for the driver to begin to reach the 10% thd threshold, generally thought of as the audible limit for subwoofers. It's recommended input power is 1000 watts rms. Though 1500-2000 would be preferred in a home application.

This is a testament to their wonderfully low power compression which yields excellent dynamic playback.

The 8W7 will require as much input power as a 12VQ and probably more as Chris pointed out. This is due to sensitivity and lower surface area. The driver is efficient though, meaning input power is turned into output with less heat loss. 500 watts rms would be sufficient for many applications with the 8W7, though more may be necessary in extreme applications.

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

I have both Kappa Perfect 10" units and JL Audio 8" W7 units, and it is my opinion that the JL 8W7 will most likely exceed the Kappa Perfect 10" unit in performance by a small margin, almost equaling the 12" Kappa Perfect. It's up to you to decide if that is worth $100 price difference for the JL unit.

-Chris

Can the 8w7 really go as low as the Perfect 12 can? And as loud down low?
That is 'very' impressive.
What are the major differences between drivers in JL's line-up?

 

[TLS Guy]

Can the 8w7 really go as low as the Perfect 12 can? And as loud down low?
That is 'very' impressive.
What are the major differences between drivers in JL's line-up?

I have added the perfect 12 VQ alignments to this post. You can get them all here. If there are others you are seriously considering I can add them, but remember it is work and time.

The details are all in the graphs. You can see the lower reach, spl etc. Everything you need is there and you can do your own comparisons.

http://www.drmarksays.com/?p=25

There should be enough data in these pdfs. for someone to select a good DIY sub project.

It is easier to load these files on my website.

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Sorry Mark...already had a thumbnail for your site and forgot the JL was on there when I looked at the 12" Perfect plans.

 

[WmAx]

Can the 8w7 really go as low as the Perfect 12 can? And as loud down low?
That is 'very' impressive.
What are the major differences between drivers in JL's line-up?

The JL 8" won't go quite as low as the Perfect 12". The Perfect can go 6-7 Hz lower. The Perfect 12" may have some SPL advantage. But they are close, which is astonishing, that an 8" driver can come so close to the superb 12" Kappa Perfect driver. The JL W7 8" is what I recommend for minimum space occupancy, while coming some what close to the performance of the Perfect 12". Just remember: as with the Perfect 12", the JL w7 8" requires a well designed cabinet system. This will make or break the project. I have not looked at the suggested alignments that TLS guy as proposed. But if you are seriously considering the 8W7 I will review some possible slot ported alignments/designs for you.

-Chris

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

I'll let you know when I finally decide on which set-up I'm going to go with as far as driver and size and what I want from it.
I'd hate to ask you to do work for a driver I'll possibly never use.
For frame of reference, the 113f uses a 13w7 and ?some? amp, correct?

 

[annunaki]

I'll let you know when I finally decide on which set-up I'm going to go with as far as driver and size and what I want from it.
I'd hate to ask you to do work for a driver I'll possibly never use.
For frame of reference, the 113f uses a 13w7 and ?some? amp, correct?

The F113 uses a 13W7 derivative not a 13W7, at least according to JL.

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Did not know that...thank you!
Would you happen to know what they 'say' is different?

 

[WmAx]

Did not know that...thank you!
Would you happen to know what they 'say' is different?

It is a W7 driver. The difference is, they have optimized the driver for a lower frequency response in an under-sized sealed cabinet, which includes a slightly larger motor structure and different T&S parameters. Car audio targets higher frequency ranges than home audio. But, it is a W7 driver, just not the exact same one you get for car audio.

-Chris

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Right, car shoots usually for ~30-40Hz spl typically.
Would the beefed up motor help no matter what enclosure?

 

[WmAx]

Right, car shoots usually for ~30-40Hz spl typically.
Would the beefed up motor help no matter what enclosure?

Yes, but far more so with small sealed systems.

In any event, I don't think it matter much. The standard car audio W7 has an huge motor system with incredible thermal power capacity and linearity. It works superbly in ANY cabinet system that is designed properly. I don't know of anything, at any price, that can substantially outperform a W7, and very few that are comparable.

-Chris