I just found this great link that explains the different sonic signature of speakers

[gus6464]

http://www.sonicflare.com/archives/sonicflares-sonic-circle.php

At first I thought it was going to be more of a marketing BS than anything but I have to agree with everything they wrote. Although I haven't heard all speakers out there, I have heard a lot of the speakers in every category they list and I must say they pretty much nailed it. The funny thing was that the speakers I own and some of my favorite speakers were actually in the same category.

 

[davidtwotrees]

I concur, Gus. What a great way to categorize speakers!

 

[jamie2112]

Well talking about hitting the nail on the head, sonicflare has done it. That is right on with everything they say. Thanks Gus....

 

[Adam]

A couple of things.

First, Sheep is going to hate this: "A supercharged Honda hatchback will beat a Porsche in a drag race, but does that make the Honda a better car? Not a chance."

Second, doesn't this go against all of the statements here that amps sound the same and don't color the sound?

 

[dem beats]

A couple of things.

First, Sheep is going to hate this: "A supercharged Honda hatchback will beat a Porsche in a drag race, but does that make the Honda a better car? Not a chance."

Second, doesn't this go against all of the statements here that amps sound the same and don't color the sound?

all decently built solid states shoudl sound the same.

Tubes, can be "tuned" based on the tubes.

 

[dem beats]

it's always amazing to me, how when listening to completely flat speakers, it sounds less realistic than another type. I wonder why that is.

The notes about the precise, pro audio equipment is what brings that up. I think I must have multiple personalities, because there are parts from each I appreciate. I want a different set in each room of the house!

 

[no. 5]

Second, doesn't this go against all of the statements here that amps sound the same and don't color the sound?

Na, because amplifiers don't all sound the same, most do, but not all.

Audioholics once had a brief comparison between a Marantz stereo amp and a Panasonic class D home theater receiver, and they sounded different, likely because the Panasonic receiver had much higher output impedance and noise floor compared to the Marantz.

it's always amazing to me, how when listening to completely flat speakers, it sounds less realistic than another type. I wonder why that is.

It may not be the frequency response per se, but also the dispersion pattern of the speaker in question, the recording itself, and the room that is making what you're listing to on 'flat' speakers sound less realistic.

 

[gus6464]

Most of the amplifiers they listed were tube amps so of course they are all going to sound different depending on the tubes they use. Even Emotiva has stated that their amps sound different. I was reading a post in their forums where a guy switched from the IPS-1 to the XPA-5 because it had a warmer sound and the IPS-1 was making his speakers sound too bright when cranked up.

Also those small class-T SET amps have been categorized as tube sounding even though they are SS.

 

[jliedeka]

There's really no such thing as a flat speaker. You can get one to measure pretty darn flat at 1 watt but that changes in unpredictable ways as you add power.

Jim

 

[mtrycrafts]

http://www.sonicflare.com/archives/sonicflares-sonic-circle.php

At first I thought it was going to be more of a marketing BS than anything but I have to agree with everything they wrote. Although I haven't heard all speakers out there, I have heard a lot of the speakers in every category they list and I must say they pretty much nailed it. The funny thing was that the speakers I own and some of my favorite speakers were actually in the same category.

Well, before you get too exuberant, you may need to research this a bit, or a lot more, like at places that actually do basic research and testing in this area

While this link is for Mirage, the story is about the research that takes place at NRC:

http://miragespeakers.com/nrc_story.shtml

• These tests determined that the characteristics that people preferred in speakers were:
- Low Distortion
- Flat Response and wide bandwidth
- Wide Dispersion

Also, you should research Harman. You may find papers by Dr Floyd Toole still posted. He worked at NRC for 25+ years conducting basic research, and what people prefer from a speaker when their biases are controlled for.
In all this research, involving thousands of listeners, a common thread was found as simply stated above.

Hopefully this link will get you to the Harman papers, or some of them:
http://www.harman.com/about_harman/technology_leadership.aspx

Unfortunately, the link takes you to a page but there open 'papers.'

 

[gus6464]

Well, before you get too exuberant, you may need to research this a bit, or a lot more, like at places that actually do basic research and testing in this area

While this link is for Mirage, the story is about the research that takes place at NRC:

http://miragespeakers.com/nrc_story.shtml

• These tests determined that the characteristics that people preferred in speakers were:
- Low Distortion
- Flat Response and wide bandwidth
- Wide Dispersion

Also, you should research Harman. You may find papers by Dr Floyd Toole still posted. He worked at NRC for 25+ years conducting basic research, and what people prefer from a speaker when their biases are controlled for.
In all this research, involving thousands of listeners, a common thread was found as simply stated above.

Hopefully this link will get you to the Harman papers, or some of them:
http://www.harman.com/about_harman/technology_leadership.aspx

Unfortunately, the link takes you to a page but there open 'papers.'

What does any of that have to do with the way they sound and how certain manufacturers have a specific sound?

Edit: The point is that even if someone comes along and invents a speaker system that can sound ruler flat in any room, there will be still be a lot of people that will not like how that speaker sounds. So one can research all they want and show as many statistics as they want because in the end, everyone is not the same or has the same preferences. The reason I posted that link was because this and other forums get people every day asking about what speaker to get based on their music preferences and sound tastes. Some will say they like a warm speaker, others bright speaker, others neutral speaker, others laid back, forward, you name it. The great thing is that there will be a speaker out there that will give those people exactly what they want, they just have to look for it and also know where to look.

 

[no. 5]

What does any of that have to do with the way they sound...

Everything; the research done by Toole and others has shown that if a person has normal hearing (i.e not going deaf) they will generally like the same thing as everyone else.

I personally think the reason the idea that 'it's all personal taste' comes form there not being a large number of truly good speakers available, and even listing rooms are often far from perfect, so very few people have actually listened to a system that would conform to what Dr. Toole has shown most people should like.

On the other hand, liking some particular colorations is an argument toward having a neutral system, because than you can add coloration depending on your mood or music; because with a non-neutral system you will be stuck with the same coloration over everything.

 

[TLS Guy]

http://www.sonicflare.com/archives/sonicflares-sonic-circle.php

At first I thought it was going to be more of a marketing BS than anything but I have to agree with everything they wrote. Although I haven't heard all speakers out there, I have heard a lot of the speakers in every category they list and I must say they pretty much nailed it. The funny thing was that the speakers I own and some of my favorite speakers were actually in the same category.

That article is the biggest load of cod's wallop I've read in a long time!

 

[100r1]

I think it does a good job of try to make it simple for the laymen.

While it's not perfect and one can shoot holes in the process, It still will give many lost people a place to start and perhaps a better understanding.

How much of it is subjective ?

 

[rnatalli]

Choosing speakers is simple. Get out and listen to as many as possible and buy what sounds best to you. People get too caught up in labeling and cataloging things and this article although interesting, just makes it worst.

 

[majorloser]

How come I don't see Bose listed as part of the circle?

 

[no. 5]

How come I don't see Bose listed as part of the circle?

I bet it's under "emotional".

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
I personally think the reason the idea that 'it's all personal taste' comes form there not being a large number of truly good speakers available, and even listing rooms are often far from perfect, so very few people have actually listened to a system that would conform to what Dr. Toole has shown most people should like.
.

Plus, not being able to compare speakers in a controlled manner and compared to a speaker that tests scored highly. So, when you compare two mediocre speakers, one will become your preferred speaker

 

[mtrycrafts]

There's really no such thing as a flat speaker. You can get one to measure pretty darn flat at 1 watt but that changes in unpredictable ways as you add power.

Jim

Especially the THD test

 

[audioman00]

What does any of that have to do with the way they sound and how certain manufacturers have a specific sound?

Edit: The point is that even if someone comes along and invents a speaker system that can sound ruler flat in any room, there will be still be a lot of people that will not like how that speaker sounds. So one can research all they want and show as many statistics as they want because in the end, everyone is not the same or has the same preferences. The reason I posted that link was because this and other forums get people every day asking about what speaker to get based on their music preferences and sound tastes. Some will say they like a warm speaker, others bright speaker, others neutral speaker, others laid back, forward, you name it. The great thing is that there will be a speaker out there that will give those people exactly what they want, they just have to look for it and also know where to look.

Good taste with the panny plasma, I love those tv's / hard to beat even today! How do you like your 661? My buddy has one, and loves it. i have never seen a yammi with so many features and yet still packs some puch from what I've read. I have the 800, circa 2003 5.1 dts, etc. It is built like the older ones with the bass extension switch and analog treb / bass. take care!